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When do we blame God?

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I view it as a difference. You are asking me to try and explain God's thoughts. There's no possible way I could do that.

We obey commandments with the promise that we will be blessed to return to live with God and gain exhaltation. We don't obey commandments so that our life will be easy here. Why does God allow bad things to happen? Because of a couple reasons. He gives us our agency to choose good or evil as a test. It would be impossible for us to choose evil if God wouldn't allow evil to happen. God allows evil to happen as a trial for us to help us grow.

Why does God allow some people to go through different trials and hardships than other people? I have no clue. I just know why he allows it to happen in general. I have no idea why God allows some thing to happen to some people and not to others. That's trying to determin God's thought's and there's no way I can do that.

I don't see how our obedience to commandments requires us to understand why God gives certain trials to some people and no to others.

God's commandments are for us to improve ourselves. God is already prefect so He doesn't live by the commandments He gives us. That's also why God can give different commandments to different groups of people based on that peoples needs.

So, if you don't understand God, then why do you think you understand our situation? (I don't mean to attack, and feel free to tell me to shut up, but I really don't understand your point of view and would like to. :))

Don't you think it's a little messed up that God would ask us to have faith which goes against our core being? I'd like to think that a God like yours would at least give us some good reason that would not ask us to completely escape what makes us human in the first place. Wouldn't it make more sense for God to give us rules that He would follow himself? He could do it in His infinite power, He could find a way.

It sounds more like "Well, this is the way it is, and everything I made is the way it should be...well, except for this, let's change that...oh, yeah, and that too...OK, so let's not let that guy rape that girl...hmm, I didn't account for that...". If everything was the way it should be, why would God interfere at all? Either letting bad things happen is the way to go, or stopping them alltogether is. I don't understand the middle ground.
 

A Lurking Shadow

I'm a slave to your will
God is responsible for each and every atrocity in the world. By his own definition, God had the foresight and ability to change the future of his creation, and decided not to. If I leave a cat strapped over a bunsen burner and I leave the gas, i'd be held responsible for the life of that animal.

Gods benevolence, day by day, has proven itself non existant.
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
So, if you don't understand God, then why do you think you understand our situation? (I don't mean to attack, and feel free to tell me to shut up, but I really don't understand your point of view and would like to. :))

Thank you for the respectful manner in which you are replying.

I'm trying to understand a specific person's situation? Whose is that? I thought I was speaking generally.

Don't you think it's a little messed up that God would ask us to have faith which goes against our core being?

Not really. I believe one of our purposes of comming to this earth is to learn to control our physical impulses and desires. Our physical impulses are more animalistic. We need to rise above it and control our bodies. If we can learn to control them the best we can in this life it will be much easier in the next life after the resurrection. It would be impossible for a person to become perfect and still controlled by their bodies.

I'd like to think that a God like yours would at least give us some good reason that would not ask us to completely escape what makes us human in the first place.

The reason is that in order to attain salvation, perfection, and exhaltation. we must control ourselves. Our physical bodies must become our tools not our masters. There is not way to gain salvation, perfectsion, and exhaltation without mastering our bodies. It's impossible. The only way we can do it is by mastering our physical bodies.

Wouldn't it make more sense for God to give us rules that He would follow himself? He could do it in His infinite power, He could find a way.

God's commandments are for making imperfect things perfect. God can't follow the commandments he gives us because He is already perfect. He doesn't need to improve Himself. God lives by perfection(I guess that's what you could call it). He doesn't need to become perfect so He wouldn't follow a law made for imperfect beings.

It sounds more like "Well, this is the way it is, and everything I made is the way it should be...well, except for this, let's change that...oh, yeah, and that too...OK, so let's not let that guy rape that girl...hmm, I didn't account for that...". If everything was the way it should be, why would God interfere at all?

God's interference is part of the way it should be. There's nothing that He hasn't accounted for. He sees everything in perfection. He has a perfect knowledge of everything. That's why I can't determine God's motives, because I don't have a perfect knowledge. God knows how every tiny factor fits in. Every tiny factor has an influence in what goes on. Sorry, but I have no idea of everything that goes into God's choices. All I can do is accept it, live the commandments the best I can, and trust in His promises.

Either letting bad things happen is the way to go, or stopping them alltogether is. I don't understand the middle ground.

Because the world isn't balck and white. The world is an infinatly complex system of actions and reactions. It is impossible for us to determine exactly what goes on. We can only look at what we see and make determinations off that. So our view is imperfect. God however can see and understand this infinatly complex system and makes perfect actions based on that.

It sounds like there are some specific things you are talking out if you care to mention tham I may be able to exlpain better.
 

tomspug

Absorbant
Why do we continue to blame God for the things that man does? Why is God responsible for the rapist? This is the argument I continue to not understand. It keeps coming back to that.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Why do we continue to blame God for the things that man does? Why is God responsible for the rapist? This is the argument I continue to not understand. It keeps coming back to that.

It's only when people say that God interferes sometimes that I go with that logic. If God stops one rapist, then that implies that He's responsible for them all. Also, just in general, He is responsible for creating us, why wouldn't He be responsible for the bad things we do? Generally we attribute design flaws to the designer.

EDIT: Why would He stop any rapists, if He's just supposed to let us do our free will?
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Why do we continue to blame God for the things that man does? Why is God responsible for the rapist? This is the argument I continue to not understand. It keeps coming back to that.
Because that concept of God is a witness with the power to stop it.
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
It's only when people say that God interferes sometimes that I go with that logic. If God stops one rapist, then that implies that He's responsible for them all. Also, just in general, He is responsible for creating us, why wouldn't He be responsible for the bad things we do? Generally we attribute design flaws to the designer.

EDIT: Why would He stop any rapists, if He's just supposed to let us do our free will?

Ah! This inspired a question. Who is God supposed to be responsible to? Why is he supposed to be resposible for another's actions?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Ah! This inspired a question. Who is God supposed to be responsible to? Why is he supposed to be resposible for another's actions?

He's supposed to be responsible to us if He's an all-loving God. Why wouldn't He be responsible? If I make a TV with a faulty part, and it stops working after 3 months, whose fault is it?
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
You don't think God has a responsibility to take care of His children?
He does. And He does. But not allowing his children to make choices for themselves would not be very loving. Im just curious now who people think God is supposed to be responsible to? Who will be the one to punish God for allowing some rapes and not others? Why is he supposed to be resposible for another's actions?
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Im just curious now who people think God is supposed to be responsible to? Who will be the one to punish God for allowing some rapes and not others? Why is he supposed to be resposible for another's actions?
I'm just going to take this part for now and leave the free will debate for later.

Shouldn't God be above doing the right thing out of fear of punishment? Shouldn't He do the right thing simply because it is right?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
He does. And He does. But not allowing his children to make choices for themselves would not be very loving. Im just curious now who people think God is supposed to be responsible to? Who will be the one to punish God for allowing some rapes and not others? Why is he supposed to be resposible for another's actions?

Then why does He stop somes bad things, but not others? No one is going to punish Him, but you're not supposed to be good because you fear the consequences of being bad. You're supposed to be good because you should be. If God is all-good, then He should be responsible to us because if He's not, then He's not being all-good.
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
He's supposed to be responsible to us if He's an all-loving God. Why wouldn't He be responsible?
He is. It's not that those that commit crimes won't be punished. They might not be punished the instant they commit a crime but they will be punished eventually. It's not as if God let people get away with crimes 'scott-free.' Everyone will be held accountable for their actions. In that way those who the crimes where committed against will recieve justice. I see that as pretty responsible.

If I make a TV with a faulty part, and it stops working after 3 months, whose fault is it?

But we aren't talkingabout in animate TV parts. We are talking about concious individuals with the ability to make choices for themselves and to be held accountable for those choices. It was God's choice to have a person raped. It was that individual's choice to do such a horrible thing.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
He is. It's not that those that commit crimes won't be punished. They might not be punished the instant they commit a crime but they will be punished eventually. It's not as if God let people get away with crimes 'scott-free.' Everyone will be held accountable for their actions. In that way those who the crimes where committed against will recieve justice. I see that as pretty responsible.



But we aren't talkingabout in animate TV parts. We are talking about concious individuals with the ability to make choices for themselves and to be held accountable for those choices. It was God's choice to have a person raped. It was that individual's choice to do such a horrible thing.

So, it was God's choice to have someone raped? The point is that our free will is our faulty part. If we didn't have it, we'd be perfect and only do good. He gave us that faulty part.
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
I'm just going to take this part for now and leave the free will debate for later.

Shouldn't God be above doing the right thing out of fear of punishment? Shouldn't He do the right thing simply because it is right?

God doesn't do wrong things. Everything God does is right. Our limited and imperfect view may see somethings God does as unjust but in the end when we will understand the perfectness of God's actions.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
God doesn't do wrong things. Everything God does is right. Our limited and imperfect view may see somethings God does as unjust but in the end when we will understand the perfectness of God's actions.

Then why does He tell us that those actions are wrong?
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
God doesn't do wrong things. Everything God does is right. Our limited and imperfect view may see somethings God does as unjust but in the end when we will understand the perfectness of God's actions.
That's dodging the question. You asked who would punish God if He did wrong. I understand that you believe God does no wrong, but if you want to understand why people blame Him, you have to consider a different perspective. So, shouldn't God do the right thing simply because it is right, and not out of fear of punishment for doing wrong?
 

A Lurking Shadow

I'm a slave to your will
God doesn't do wrong things. Everything God does is right. Our limited and imperfect view may see somethings God does as unjust but in the end when we will understand the perfectness of God's actions.

God gives us free will and then punishes us for making the wrong choice. All we have been given is the illusion of freedom: in reality there is only one path that won't have us swimming in coals rocking to ACDC, and thats his way.
 

tomspug

Absorbant
I still don't understand. Do we believe that freedom is a good thing or what? If you had to choose between a world where bad things happen but you had the freedom to choose between right and wrong or a world where only good things happen but you have no control over your own actions? Can anyone pick one?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I still don't understand. Do we believe that freedom is a good thing or what? If you had to choose between a world where bad things happen but you had the freedom to choose between right and wrong or a world where only good things happen but you have no control over your own actions? Can anyone pick one?

I'll take the latter, please. I can do without all the bad stuff.
 
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