When do we meditate?

[telecino]

Engyo seems to know quite a lot about his spiritual practices, and this is wonderful. I would love to eventually know enough to write the knowledge like he does.

I like starting my meditation period with something that will set my mind on God and settle my mental activities to rest. I do Chi-Gong, i practice the multi-aspect ritual practice of kuji-in, the more details i put into it, the more my mind will be fully occupied with the kuji-in and not by any mondain thoughts.

When i have elevated myself, the energies, the attitude, i do the contrary of occupying my mind and i gaze at no-mind, allowing for transcendence to occur.

 

[michel]

I do have a problem with what I call 'peaceful meditation' - I am fine meditating in the open air, walking.

When I lay back in a chair, or on the floor, and meditate, I usually wake up later - I have no doubt fallen asleep within minutes of puting my head down. I know why this is - It is undoubtedly because of my FMS which means I can never have enough sleep; anyone have an idea how to 'cope' with that ?

 

[Engyo]

Michel -

I think that maybe "laying back" may be part of the problem........ Rather try sitting either on the floor or in a chair (not touching the back of the chair, just the seat), with the back very straight and the head centered above the shoulders; the eyes should be closed almost all the way - open only slits. Look into the back of your eyelids, if you can, but don't let the eyes close. The knees should be lower than the hips, to allow the back to stay straight without undue pressure. If on the floor, half or full lotus works, as does sitting in seiza (on one's knees). I don't recommend sitting "indian style" as the knees won't drop below the hips, and the lower back will begin to ache soon. For seiza, I recommend a bench, unless you are used to this posture. The hands should be in the lap or on the knees; with the arms and shoulders completely relaxed, but the shoulders back to allow free and easy breathing. The mudra (hand position) I use is to place the fingers of the left hand atop the fingers of the right; the thumbtips are brought together touching to form a circle. Hands are then placed in the lap, forming a circle with the thumbs near the navel. Keep all of the muscles as relaxed as possible while maintaining this posture. Take a couple of deep breaths, and you are ready to begin your meditation. There are lots of mudras; I don't think one or another makes a huge difference.

If you have a sleep deficit, maybe another form of meditation such as mantra recitation might work better for you, if you continue to have problems as above. Walking a labyrinth is also a very interesting form of meditation, if you can find one nearby.

Hope this helps.....

 

[michel]

Thanks Engyo; I will try as you have suggested; coincidence has led me to find your post that you refered me to from another tread - do I understand what I am saying - I am not sure.........


Seriously, thank you for your comments.

 

[WillieHutch]

my interest in basic forms of meditation has taken me here--does anyone have adivce for a complete novice? :bounce

 

[Engyo]

Hmmmm; I guess first is to figure out what your motivation for meditation is, and what your goals are. There are a number of styles of meditation, and then lots of forms of each style. As I am a Buddhist, that is the way I know how to meditate, and how I can teach it. Different styles and forms are useful for different goals; that is why I ask the questions above.

Once you have understood (to an extent anyway) why you want to meditate, then we progress to a style and form.

One thing to understand about meditation is that it is much like exercise. It is most effective if you set up a daily or every-other-day habit of meditating regularly. Regular short sessions (daily if possible) are far more effective than marathon sessions once in a while. If your schedule is tight, there are short "power meditations" you can do at your desk, or in between classes. These require familiarity with basic meditation practices though.

Anyway, I guess the next step is to figure out what you want from this, and then go from there.

 

[zenmonk_genryu]

my interest in basic forms of meditation has taken me here--does anyone have adivce for a complete novice? :bounce

Yes. But try this link first and then get back to me if there's anything you're not clear on:

http://www.mro.org/zmm/meditation/index.html

 

[zenmonk_genryu]

Zen Meditation is done constantly, while your at work, at the grocery store, etc... It is a frame of mind that needs to be present at all times. Is this contradictory to the "new age" idea of meditation?

Yes and whilst I think I understand where you are pointing, I'd tend to avoid describing it as a state of mind.

 

[Master Vigil]

Yes and whilst I think I understand where you are pointing, I'd tend to avoid describing it as a state of mind.

I said "frame of mind" which I believe is different than state of mind. But that may just be an argument of semantics, and pointless at best. What I mean is, not necessarily a state of mind, but a state of constant focus of "now", and thus a frame of mind. Does that make sense?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think you make sense, Master Vigil.


I would say that it is important to practice meditation because the practice is what hopefully will result in that mindfulness in one's daily life. Practicing the different abstinences or observances in one's particular religious path helps one create the habits that move away from worldly attachements and toward the spiritual, peaceful realm. The same can be said, then, for meditation.




The sitting, the incense, the soft music (or silence), the breathing...........they all are practices for focusing on this very moment, and not the future, the past, or the hypothetical "what if's". These are good habits. And they help the practitioner to be ready to face suffering in the world with a steady mind. Hence, the practitioner moves in the direction of constant meditation because the habit has been established so well.





You have a poetic way of expressing yourself, Master Vigil. I like that.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Wickwoman]

Hello. I believe the blissful state is a natural byproduct but not the goal. And that the states of suffering and bliss are not so much illusions as thinking of them as good or bad is an illusion. And the goal of meditation, I believe is to look at things as they are without the discerning mind deciding "this is good" or "this is bad." A simple "what is this?" will do.

Also, what is a "vigil?" I mean, I know what it means to keep one, but I've never heard someone call themselves one.

 

[Master Vigil]

Also, what is a "vigil?" I mean, I know what it means to keep one, but I've never heard someone call themselves one.

I call myself a Vigil because it is the basis of my spirituality. To be constantly vigilant, awake, aware, watchful, etc... of the spirits, the spirit world, the natural flow of nature, Tao, etc... So to better learn from them and mold my life to be more in sync with the flow of nature. And in turn, one with Tao.

I created a thread with a basic discourse on my spirituality not too long ago. Here it is...
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29152

 

[michel]

Alot of people nowadays have a wierd understanding of meditation. They picture a secluded area with candles and pillows and sitting crosslegged for hours to achieve a blissfull state of mind. But when does meditation really take place? I asked a zen priest this once, and she said, "All the time." You see, meditation isn't just sitting crosslegged on a pillow for hours. Zen Meditation is done constantly, while your at work, at the grocery store, etc... It is a frame of mind that needs to be present at all times. Is this contradictory to the "new age" idea of meditation?

Not mine. I can meditate walking down the street, as far as I am concerned. What does amuse me, M.V is that you use the 'New Age' label which, I am sure we have agreed before today, is merely old aged re-vamped.

I think you make sense, Master Vigil.

I would say that it is important to practice meditation because the practice is what hopefully will result in that mindfulness in one's daily life. Practicing the different abstinences or observances in one's particular religious path helps one create the habits that move away from worldly attachements and toward the spiritual, peaceful realm. The same can be said, then, for meditation.

The sitting, the incense, the soft music (or silence), the breathing...........they all are practices for focusing on this very moment, and not the future, the past, or the hypothetical "what if's". These are good habits. And they help the practitioner to be ready to face suffering in the world with a steady mind. Hence, the practitioner moves in the direction of constant meditation because the habit has been established so well.

You have a poetic way of expressing yourself, Master Vigil. I like that.
Peace,
Mystic

I would say that it is important to practice meditation because the practice is what hopefully will result in that mindfulness in one's daily life

Well said; that is one of the practical 'pluses' of meditation that helps with every aspect of life.

I wonder how many people have set of on a routine car trip, only to arrive thinking "Ghosh, I am here!".

 

[Wickwoman]

O.K. Thanks Master Vigil. I'll check it out.

 

[koan]

Mindfulness, not mindlessness. Meditation is concentration, Vipasana: concentration on an object or vision e.g a rotting corpse. Pure land: concentration of repeating the Buddhas name. Rinzai Zen, concentration of a koan etc.
A good book on the subject, is secrets of chinese meditation, by Charles Luk. Most non Vipasana Buddhist meditation comes from China.

 

[zenzero]

Good,
right direction the whole thing.
Except the use of the word ' I ' if that too is conciously done then fine as its achiveing nothing after meditating 24 hrs. all the lives.
Just being!
Love & rgds