When you have 2 things that are already alive coming together, how is that the start of life?
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When does life begin?
- Thread starter Kfox
- Start date
Tinkerpeach
Active Member
The actual process begins at conception.
At that point it will become a human unless interfered with in some way.
McBell
Unbound
What might human sperm and or human egg become other than human?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'd say the construction of a master form of life begins via a community of already living organisms getting together in a cohesive way and manner.
What makes someone alive is when the constructed organism goes "online" taking the form of a more cohesive , more complex, master form that acts as a single form of life even though it is still a community of living organisms working and communicating together as one.
Pretty freaky huh?
We are essentially organic mechs!
McBell
Unbound
So then, what was the point of that post?
Madsaac
Active Member
No I just inferred that's what you meant from your post, the start of human life. Otherwise it's obvious that that sperm and egg are already 'alive'.
Anything with cells is alive isn't it, plants, algae etc
no .. the process of human creation does not begin at conception .. that fact that a human might be created out of the process ... odds are this won't happen but it might but if it does .. this does not mean that the zygote was a human
and last... the Zygote will never become a human.. anymore than a bricklayer becomes a building.
The zygote will become two zygotes .. and those two will become four zygotes .. all clones of the parent Zygote.. when you get to around 300 of these "Totipotent" zygotes .. we have enough builders to start laying bricks.. except the bricks are cells. These 300 zygotes form a hollow sphere .. then at some point ... think is around the time of implantation .. these builders / Totipotent cells will start spitting out differentiated cells .. these are the first cells of the human under construction .. like the bricklayer .. none of these zygotes will ever be part of the human under creation - they will go on to become the placenta .. aka the after birth .. and all these precious zygotes .. if not saved for stem cell work or eaten by the mother .. all these precious human lives .. will be thrown into the trash after the baby is born.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I'm not arguing with you. Go back and read it if you have questions.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Life begun somewhere about 4 billion years ago.
Life of a new human organism begins at the conception.
So perhaps they should phrase it differently, instead of asking when does life begin, they should ask when does "person-hood" begin. Agree?
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
I think what you're missing is that this isn't a biological debate but a political one. Some people have decided (for whatever reasons) that they don't support abortion and so come up with a specific spin on selected facts to create the concept of "life begins at conception". Some of the people who oppose them politically come up with different spins on the same facts to counter that position.
None of this actually reflects the complex reality of biological reproduction. We don't even really have a clear definition of what "life" is, so making statements about when it starts is already getting ahead of the science (hence the apparently conflicting statements you referred to in your OP).
The fact is that plenty of other jurisdictions around the world have reached relatively fixed (but often different) conclusions on the question of abortion without any significant reference to this kind of thing. It's primarily recognised as a medical, practical and social matter.
I can't speak for @Kathryn, but it seems to me she meant the "human" to be applied to the "life" part of the equation.
Of course, the union of sperm and egg doesn't result in what I think most people generally consider human, since it is just a cell. Though, a human cell.
But as an answer of what life is being discussed, it is human life.
The question of "when does life begin?" seems to me to be a different question than what the OP is actually shooting for (when does human life begin?). And I think the addition recommended by @Kathryn addresses that.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Really? So we also can't say that somebody died?
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
... the beginning cell of a growing new human organism.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
There's no singular measurement to definitively determine if a person (or any other creature for that matter) is alive or dead. Heartbeat, breathing or the various definitions of brain death can be considered but none are necessarily definitive or apply equally in all cases.
We obviously work around the uncertainty with various systems, policies and structures where they're necessary (such as in hospitals) but that will often involve an element of (educated) opinion rather than just definitive and measurable facts.
McBell
Unbound
Unless the conversation deviates from "human", I fail to see how specifying human makes any different.
It is still a living human sperm that fertilizes a living human egg.
At no point in the process is it not human.
McBell
Unbound
I was taking you at your word that I was wrong.
Then I was asking for clarification as to what exactly I got wrong, seeing as you merely made the declaration I was wrong.
Now you say to go back and read it if I have questions that you are not going to clarify when asked?
Seems like a lot of back peddling to me.
Is a human sperm or egg human in the same way we are human?
I think the point is fundamental to the debate. Is a fertilized ovum a human or is it a cell and of human origin.
What does it mean to be human and when does that happen?
The OP's titular question could be augmented with
another....
At what point does human life attain full right to life?
I ask because a fundie friend who studies the Bible
regularly says it begins at conception. But he also
says the Bible considers the fetus to have less value
than a person who's been born.
I can't cite the passages he uses for these beliefs.
another....
At what point does human life attain full right to life?
I ask because a fundie friend who studies the Bible
regularly says it begins at conception. But he also
says the Bible considers the fetus to have less value
than a person who's been born.
I can't cite the passages he uses for these beliefs.
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