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When is it less accurate to call someone a 'conservative' than to call them a 'radical extremist'?

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Then again, would 'reactionary' really fit today's radical right-wingers? The majority of them, I mean? I'm not sure how much they are reacting to the left these days as they are promoting their own agendas. Example: Is the Dominionist Movement a reaction? Or is it more of an expression of Christian utopianism?

Christian utopian movements have existed since the first century and none of them that I'm familiar with have sought to impose the most stringent interpretation of Old Testament laws (which mainstream Christianity regards as having been inapplicable to Gentiles and to have been foreshadowing for the deeper moral revelation of the New Testament, with its emphasis upon faith, love and mercy) onto a temporal society, in so draconian and dystopian a fashion as American Dominionists with their "In God We Trust" legislation.

Most Christian utopian movements are pacifist, isolated, communist-style sects with a kind of anarchist disregard for secular states like the first century Ebionites; the Moravian Brethren of the 15th century and the Shakers and Amish of the Post-Reformation era, which generally speaking "keep to themselves" and don't see fit to take much of anything to do with the 'unredeemed' pagan world.

As an example of your bog-standard Christian utopian theology:


Petr Chelčický - Wikipedia


Petr Chelčický[1] (Czech pronunciation: [ˈpɛtr̩ ˈxɛltʃɪtskiː]) (c. 1390 – c. 1460) was a Czech Christian spiritual leader and author in the 15th century Bohemia, now the Czech Republic. He was one of the most influential thinkers of the Bohemian Reformation.

His published works critiqued the immorality and violence of the contemporary church and state. He proposed a number of Bible-based improvements for human society, including nonresistance, which influenced such luminaries as Tolstoy, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King. Paradoxically, the main part of the Hussite movement rejected his teachings of nonviolence, which eventually led to much violence among the Hussite movement. Chelcicky's teachings laid the foundation of the Unity of the Brethren.

Chelčický called the Pope and the emperor (the church and the state) "whales who have torn the net of true faith" because they established the church as the head of a secular empire. Chelčický believed that Christians should follow the law of love and so should not be compelled by state authority. He taught that the believer should not accept government office or even appeal to its authority, as for the true believer to take part in government was sinful. He argued that capital punishment and other forms of violent punishment were wrong. His positions on government are similar to the Christian anarchist principles of Leo Tolstoy.

Chelčický was a communalist in the original Christian sense, and thought that there must be complete equality in the Christian community. He said there should be no rich or poor since the Christian relinquished all property and status. He maintained that Christians could expel evil persons from their community but could not compel them to be good. He believed in equality but that the state should not force it upon society and went so far as to proffer that social inequality is a creature of the state and rises and falls with it.


Not exactly very threatening, is it?

On occasion, there did arise a militant Christian 'utopian' sect that strive to literally bring about things like communalization of property and radical wealth or land redistribution, equality of the sexes and peasant uprising. An example would be the radical Anabaptists of the Protestant Reformation:


German Peasants' War - Wikipedia

  • Omnia sunt communia, ‘All property should be held in common’ and should be distributed to each according to his needs, as the occasion required. Any prince, count, or lord who does not want to do this, after first being warned about it, should be beheaded or hanged.
    • in Revelation and Revolution: Basic Writings of Thomas Müntzer (1993), p. 200
  • The people will be free and God alone will be their Lord.
    • Letter to the Princes as cited in The German Peasants' War and Anabaptist Community of Goods, p. 109
  • The stinking puddle from which usury, thievery and robbery arises is our lords and princes. They make all creatures their property—the fish in the water, the bird in the air, the plant in the earth must all be theirs. Then they proclaim God's commandments among the poor and say, "You shall not steal." They oppress everyone, the poor peasant, the craftsman are skinned and scraped.
    • Letter to the Princes, as cited in Transforming Faith Communities: A Comparative Study of Radical Christianity, p. 173

And the Taiping Christian sect in China:


Taiping Rebellion 1850 - 1864


Hong Xiuquan (洪秀全) [1 Jan 1814 - 1 Jun 1864)] was the leader of the Taipings 太平(transliterated as ‘Great Leveling’ or ‘Great Peace’) with a mixture of Chinese; Christian and European ideas. Hong Xiuquan came across Christian missionaries and the Bible at an early age in Guangdong. After an illness he had a vision in which he believed himself divinely inspired. Hong offered equality between men and women as well as reform to the hated system of land ownership where landlords exploited poor tenant farmers. Chinese people with a grievance against the Qing system enthusiastically joined the new movement. From this reformist point of view, the Taiping rebellion is seen as the forerunner of the Republican and Communist mass movements one hundred years later.

“You, our countrymen, have been aggrieved by the oppressions of the Manchus long enough: if you do not change your politics, and with united strength and courage sweep away every remnant of these Tartars, how can you answer it to God in the highest heavens? We have now set in motion our righteous army, above to revenge the insult offered to God in deceiving Heaven, and below to deliver China from its inverted position, thus sternly sweeping away every vestige of Tartar influence and unitedly enjoying the happiness of the Taiping dynasty.”


But none of these have many values in common with US Dominionists or their bizarre interpretation of, and heretical imposition onto society of, Old Testament legalism - in my honest opinion. Indeed, most laypersons would look at these traditional Christian utopian movements and identify them as "proto-leftist / proto-socialist", which cannot be said for most Dominionists I'm familiar with.

To use another comparative example, Young Earth Creationism is at odds with most of the allegorical readings of Genesis taught by the Fathers:

See:


Evolution | scientific theory

Biblical scholars point out that the Bible is inerrant with respect to religious truth, not in matters that are of no significance to salvation.

Augustine, considered by many the greatest Christian theologian, wrote in the early 5th century in his De Genesi ad litteram (Literal Commentary on Genesis):



It is also frequently asked what our belief must be about the form and shape of heaven, according to Sacred Scripture. Many scholars engage in lengthy discussions on these matters, but the sacred writers with their deeper wisdom have omitted them. Such subjects are of no profit for those who seek beatitude. And what is worse, they take up very precious time that ought to be given to what is spiritually beneficial. What concern is it of mine whether heaven is like a sphere and Earth is enclosed by it and suspended in the middle of the universe, or whether heaven is like a disk and the Earth is above it and hovering to one side.
Augustine adds later in the same chapter: “In the matter of the shape of heaven, the sacred writers did not wish to teach men facts that could be of no avail for their salvation.”

Yet Enlightenment rational analysis, applied to religious thought, paradoxically led to a demand for intellectual rigour in belief that caused at least some churches to conclude that biblical literalism was a logical corollary for their belief, thus amounting to a rejection of scientific evidence.

To that extent, I'm inclined to agree with @9-10ths_Penguin and would suggest that just as Young Earth Creationism couldn't really have emerged before modernity as anything other than 'reaction' to enlightenment era rigorous methods of intellectual enquiry, movements like Dominionism are likely reactions against contemporary trends in favour of secularization.
 
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PureX

Veteran Member
"Conservative" has become the equivalent of a tribal name in America, now; like the Cleveland baseball team being called "Indians". They aren't any more conservative than the baseball players are Indigenous. And their respective mascots are just absurd, perverted caricatures of the original cultures that they pretend to venerate. It's not dissimilar to what the various totalitarian dictators did to the term "communism" when they adopted it as their label for the forced labor camp culture they created.
 
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