Umm...so you proposed your resolve to not debate further and share only love in the General Debates section??!!
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I am not sure if I have a preconceived conscience intent about debating.
I have just noticed, through my own participation, that a vast majority of debate is all about finding error in the good that unadulterated faith can bring.
The exploration of what has adulterated faith, becomes a great challenge for all of us.
Regards Tony
What is unadulterated faith and why do you think it is good? (It would be great if you explain it generally and not quote Bahai beliefs.)
I see unadulterated faith is the core of our spiritual capacity, I see these teachings are found in all Faiths born of God.
The very foundation of these virtues and morals belong to the spiritual realm, they are humanities divine qualities and these really suffer neither change nor alteration. I see it is the essence of all the Messengers. They will never be abrogated, as they consist of spiritual rather than material truth.
This unadulterated faith, as shared by Abdul'baha are ".......knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, high-mindedness, trustworthiness, love of God, and charity. It is mercy to the poor, assistance to the oppressed, generosity to the needy, and upliftment of the fallen. It is purity, detachment, humility, forbearance, patience, and constancy. These are divine qualities. These commandments will never be abrogated, but will remain in force and effect for all eternity."
Regards Tony
In regular English, these might be classified as virtuous traits not the term "unadulterated faith" which you are using. Why are you using such an uncommon word to describe these?
Faith means something quite different and need not be virtuous.
Definition of FAITH
Because so many people impute the opposite virtues as being a product of Faith, whereas the opposite virtues are a product of us adulterating faith.
Our quandary is accepting the errors we have made in Faith.
Regards Tony
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's a good philosophical subject.
I tend to think its a matter of intertwined perspectives as light and dark are essentially the same in terms of the whole. There is no separation, but rather how extremes play out as dynamic forces.
This is a good objective.
But maybe the error is believing that there are special revelations from God given to select people through history?
What then?
stvdv
Veteran Member
Thank you Tony
"naught but.."
Indeed, some people do manage to live completely on light, prana. I'm not that advanced yet. I still need some physical food energy
Would be something though, just living on light, no food nor water needed. Would blow away some preconditioning quite a few scientific minded (a)theists here on RF have
I contemplated that is part of this reality. It is all relative to our capacity of mind.
If we were always turning to the light, then we would not face the darkness, which is turning away from that light.
The sun is the source of light, as we get further away from the source, so does the intensity become less and then moves into the shades of darkness, until we can reach total darkness, where we shut ourselves out from the light.
To me this is reflected in many spiritual teachings, but is also a material reality.
Interestingly, I have read that when we depart this world, what awaits is the world of Lights. I see many NDE experiences talk of being drawn to the light.
Regards Tony
Personally I see the Revelations are given to a people that have gone so far towards the darkness, that they needed to be again shown the path to the light. I do not see God gives Revelations to us because we deserve them, we get them because we need them.
I am also of the opinion, even though the light of those Messages may have been given to a specific people in a specific location, the light of that Message still envelopes the entire surface of the earth as the days and season progress all are immersed in the light.
If we still choose to remain in darkness as the light passes over us, that is a choice we made, as that light was given and available.
The Bible put this in what I now see as a very simple but deep teaching. We must be born again from the darkness into the light.
I see no Nation in the past has missed being given a source of light, yet we have a tendency to impute our darkness upon that light. An example I have been considering is that of faiths that choose to conquere by force, instead of sharing the light. History is full of examples we can learn by.
Regards Tony
Thank you Tony
"naught but.."
Indeed, some people do manage to live completely on light, prana. I'm not that advanced yet. I still need some physical food energy
Would be something though, just living on light, no food nor water needed. Would blow away some preconditioning quite a few scientific minded (a)theists here on RF have
I have seen some videos of people attempting this. My mind is not able to see the logic as I see we need to participate in this world, while seeking the light. I see this world as a matrix, where we are being developed for the potential we have of the light. (Jesus offered we can be born again in this world)
Yet I see, using logic and reason, that we have been given the wisdom to know that the human body does need some fuel. The body is created to process that fuel to remain healthy.
What we have not contemplated, is it really does not require a large amount of fuel, but does require a balance to be provided.
I contemplated, that we can live in this world, partake of its benefits and still be immersed in the Light. It all becomes a state of mind that is reflected in all our thoughts and material actions.
Regards Tony
I personally see that the attachment to special revelations and chosen prophets as one of the primary reasons of group conflicts and is hence itself is a major source of darkness in the world. The general virtues are known and available to all and need no special revelation to be pursued. If you think in terms of God, then that presence is everywhere and in everything and no prophets are required.
I would see you are correct about attachment. I would offer that this world needs the Sun and all can indeed partake of the light.
Yet how many Suns are there? I will explain what I am offering here. God is not the Sun in this analogy, God it the source of light animating from the Suns.
God has more than One Sun, an unknowable quantity, yet they all have the same purpose, to impart light and life to the surface of the planets that surround those sun's. (People who surround the sun of the Messengers)
This analogy could be expanded in many thoughts, but the key here is, yes the light is available, but it does have a source and the source is required, or there is no light.
Regards Tony
I have a different view. The presence of God (if you wish to call it that) is like the presence of the laws of physics. It is all pervading in everything, in every action and in everyone in the same identical manner. There is no specific area , or person from which it emanates somehow and to whom or to where we must go to in order to find it. If you wish to think in terms of light, you can make a similie with the cosmic microwave background radiation that pervades the universe uniformly everywhere and at all times.
In my opinion the wrong belief in the special importance of a particular revelation or a prophet is the cause of most divisions and conflicts. Some one believes in a unique son of God, another the final and definitive revelation book, another the special revelation to a particular people, another the most accurate and appropriate revelation as being the most recent and for this modern age.....the list goes on. This way can never lead to the "light" as you say...only darkness of tribalism and ignorance.
stvdv
Veteran Member
True
Less is more. More is less. These apply definitely to food consumption in the West. Probably 90% of all diseases is due to faulty eating habits
True. Proves God's existence and Love. We do nothing, except the eating part. Digestion etc is beyond our control. All God's Grace. Good to realize and remember
Only those who reached a certain level of Spirituality can do without physical food I think, or maybe only by God's Grace (thise who live on prana are another proof of God's existence)
I know that I do need food. It takes God's Grace to live on prana alone I think
It's a fact that some can live on prana. They are more immersed in the Light than you and I. Good examples to keep me humble and remind me of my Goal
I wish you well in your path to find your true self.
Out of logic and reason, I see we were meant to partake of food, that is how we are created, but we need to learn moderation.
Jesus said it in a great way.
Matthew 4:4 "Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
To me that shows the balance of the material with the Spiritual.
So I have to out of all logic and reason offer that those that say they eat no food or drink no water are not 100% truthful (In the past I did watch a couple of shows on this). Personally I would see this is not spirituality at its apex. I am of the opinion these practices are extreme material interpretation of religious texts that lead to a sanctimonious worship.
For balance in our affairs, one has to be productive member of humanity, so in such extreme cases, I ask myself, if that is the height of spirituality, what if every human acheived it? Nothing would be done, the world of humanity would acheive naught, have no purpose but self imposed starvation, the body created by God, denied the sustenance provided by God.
Regards Tony
stvdv
Veteran Member
Thank youI wish you well in your path to find your true self.
I actually "found my True Self"