When the Sky?

[robocop (actually)]

There was water covering the crust with a thick mist sky... all water and water vapor over the land in the second day. Then when the dry land appeared the ocean water was drained through holes to do this. Between the crust and the water vapor clouds that were still there was now air. After bacteria, plants and fish birds were created in this space and before land animals. If you subscribe to my beliefs you can ask me a question and I have more information.

 

[whirlingmerc]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Then in verse 20 there is an atmosphere for the birds to fly in. There seems to be no mention of where it came from. When was it formed in the narrative?

The Bible account is terse and doesn't answer all questions. I'm not sure

 

[Infernum]

If you can understand the following verse, Genesis is also understandable.

John 4:13 Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. 14 But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life.” The same water is used in Genesis.

It is because the value of Genesis is in the spiritual message, not the literal. If we understand what the waters in Genesis represent, then we can understand what light, darkness, the sea, the sun and moon, the earth, the beasts, the man and woman, the snake and the trees all represent. The writer of revelation knew this and it's apparent in his writings. Just read Revelation 12 to see many of the concepts.

And if you think spiritual meaning is a 'cop out' you are unfortunately missing the whole point of the Bible and the words of Jesus.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The Bible account is terse and doesn't answer all questions. I'm not sure

Well said. I'm not sure either. My best lead right now is that it was part of the water and part of the formless and void earth. The atmosphere seems to be part of the chaos of 1:1, before order, and arose from there.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Here is my viewpoint:

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Comment: The proto-sun had not begun to shine. The earth was shrouded in a dense atmosphere of dust and water caused by meteors and asteroids striking the earth. It was still too hot for the water vapors to settle down as lakes and seas. It probably did not contain oxygen in levels we are used to.​

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Comment: Here diffuse light from a sun not as strong as what we see (science says 70%) permitted light to be seen as in a haze but the sources were not clearly seen.​

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Comment: Here the firmament is that which is between the two 'bodies' of water, the seas and the canopy. Our atmosphere was being cleared up by the waters settling down as seas and above as a canopy functioning as a kind of hot house so that the whole planet experienced balmy temperatures. ​

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Comment: the light from previous was sufficient for the plants to thrive.​

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Comment: Here we see that the earth's rotation has been established to what we are familiar with. This didn't happen in the former light verses. Now, the atmosphere was clear enough to clearly see the sun and the moon, even the stars. The plants had now given our atmosphere enough oxygen for the animals to be created next.​

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.​

Pertaining to your question, this is what I get from this account. The viewpoint is always from a person standing on the earth's surface.

I think your concept of the word "in" and my concept of it vary greatly.

 

[Grandliseur]

I think your concept of the word "in" and my concept of it vary greatly.

That is fine. Each has to make sense of our reality as our makeup dictates to us.

The more important things are helping the needy when we can. I think this world is on its way into a horrible end, and a lot of us are going to need to work together to survive - just like the very 1st Christians did.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

There was water covering the crust with a thick mist sky... all water and water vapor over the land in the second day. Then when the dry land appeared the ocean water was drained through holes to do this. Between the crust and the water vapor clouds that were still there was now air. After bacteria, plants and fish birds were created in this space and before land animals. If you subscribe to my beliefs you can ask me a question and I have more information.

Canopy theory.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Canopy theory.

No. That is concerned with Noah's Ark. This is about creation. I have a radical theory of Noah's Ark.

 

[Skwim]

What do we both know? I know I live on this earth, you know this also. Did the early earth sustain heavy bombardments as the moon did?
What is the present scientific reasoning behind the extinction of the dinosaurs? Here is an excerpt of that event:

After the red glow, the sky would darken as ash and debris swirling around the globe created a creeping twilight.

“For the first few hours, there would have been close to total darkness,” says Collins. “But soon after that, the sky would begin to lighten. The following weeks, months perhaps even years were probably somewhere between twilight and a very cloudy day.”
Here’s What Happened the Day the Dinosaurs Died
​

So, is my claim that in the early days - when these things fell regularly from the sky - that the sun was not clearly visible- is that claim reasonable and scientific?! Is this the difference we see here:

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
. . .
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years: 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
​

So, all I know is that the account in Genesis describes perfectly the scenario science gives us; it itself tells us happened when the dinosaur were killed off. This is what I see. What you see is really not any concern to me unless you want to ask me questions to clarify your own viewpoints.

But the account in Genesis is about the the beginning of all creation.

Genesis1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
​

65 millions of years ago when the dinosaurs were killed off by an asteroid was not the beginning of creation.

In any case, have a good day.

.

 

[Grandliseur]

But the account in Genesis is about the the beginning of all creation.

Genesis1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
​

65 millions of years ago when the dinosaurs were killed off by an asteroid was not the beginning of creation.

In any case, have a good day.

.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. ASV​

Verse one & two are given as the creation of the physical universe and earth - in an unspecified beginning.
From verse 3, we enter the Terra-forming periods, about which some claim it is 24h days, but which may be demonstrated Biblically to be a minimum of 7000 years long, and a possible maximum that is unknown, but still constrained with what happens on those days in Genesis chapter 1, and verses 1 & 2.

The mentioning of the dinosaurs was to demonstrate what science claims happens to the atmosphere when asteroids and meteors of sufficient size impact earth. Since we can see that early on, from day one on, large scale life is not mentioned, but light etc. is - we can therefore from this understand how the atmosphere would be in terms of clarity, in terms of letting light down to the surface and understand the description given. Looking at the moon, it is obvious that in early times, our moon and earth was under heavy bombardment by these a's and m's. This tells us why the bodies of the sun, moon, stars do not become visible until much later, tells us how there could be light enough for plants to grow, and is the key to understanding what is described in the text.

If you agree is not my problem. I just tried to help someone who asked about these matters. If my assistance is brushed aside, I don't really care. I am happy with my understanding as it is.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No. That is concerned with Noah's Ark. This is about creation. I have a radical theory of Noah's Ark.

The canopy theory has as it's beginning the world of Genesis1. It's an illegitimate child of replacement theology. There's a problem in the allogorizing of where the sun, the moon and the stars are placed. A littoral interpretation places them in the atmosphere.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

But the account in Genesis is about the the beginning of all creation.

Genesis1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
​

65 millions of years ago when the dinosaurs were killed off by an asteroid was not the beginning of creation.

In any case, have a good day.

.

I think he was using the similarity of the conditions of the extinction event as a corollary to the conditions shortly after creation.

Whether they know it or not this is all part of something called the Canopy theory put forth by Isaac Vail in 1874. It's generally discredited.

 

[robocop (actually)]

The canopy theory has as it's beginning the world of Genesis1. It's an illegitimate child replacement theology. There's a problem in the allogorizing of where the sun, the moon and the stars are placed. A littoral interpretation places them in the atmosphere.

Right. I believe differently about the 4th day too. I believe they were there in Outer Space, like normal. What it was about was getting creation accustomed to the Seasons and there was also some surveying of the Stars.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Right. I believe differently about the 4th day too. I believe they were there in Outer Space, like normal. What it was about was getting creation accustomed to the Seasons and there was also some surveying of the Stars.

The stars being in the firmament means the water above is in the heaven beyond space.
.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Yes but we both know that's wrong... dark matter notwithstanding. Let's go for an explanation that works. I'm sorry my Hebrew is limited, but if you would please tell me what Hebrew words you're looking at and where in Strong's Concordance they are I would be glad to look at it with you.

 

[robocop (actually)]

The first time "firmament" appears in the Bible it means between the liquid water and water vapor. Every time after that it means "Outer Space."

 

[robocop (actually)]

katzpur taught me that.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yes but we both know that's wrong... dark matter notwithstanding. Let's go for an explanation that works. I'm sorry my Hebrew is limited, but if you would please tell me what Hebrew words you're looking at and where in Strong's Concordance they are I would be glad to look at it with you.

Actually, although I'm aware of the Hebrew, I'm only looking at the English. KJV to be exact.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The first time "firmament" appears in the Bible it means between the liquid water and water vapor. Every time after that it means "Outer Space."

There's still a big hole there.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Not going to comment... I have copyright information. Sorry.