When Was Jesus Really Born

[OutOfTime]

So a lot of us know that Dec 25th isn't Jesus' real b-day, it's actually the birthday of the sun after the winter solstace on Dec 22nd. That holiday was celebrated before by sun worshippers and adapted as the date by Romans when they made christianity their religion. So this is an interesting article (several others like it online) which talks about Jesus' real birth date.

Truth Or Tradition - Was Jesus Christ born on Christmas, Dec. 25th, or summer, fall, September

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Nobody knows.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I don't think anybody can know the exact date - as its not recorded anywhere as far as I am aware. Depending on how much of the birth of Jesus story you believe, you can take a guess at the time of the year by what goes on - shepherds tending their flocks etc....this would not happen in the winter.

I seem to remember a Catholic telling me it was September once and I have had an LDS person tell me it was April.

 

[Breathe]

Apparently, 17th June, 02BC.
'Jesus was born in June', astronomers claim - Telegraph

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Apparently, 17th June, 02BC.
'Jesus was born in June', astronomers claim - Telegraph

17th June is my brother's birthday!!!

(not really sure what that has to do with this! )

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The very moment I became aware of him.

 

[Sunstone]

Nobody knows.

That's not good enough! We must know! We must!

 

[Green Gaia]

Are we sure he even existed?

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Are we sure he even existed?

Thats a good point as well....There is an article link in another thread about if he existed or not this is a little bit about it....

No historians of the time mention Jesus. Suetonius (65-135) does not. Pliny the Younger only mentions Christians (Paulists) with no comment of Jesus himself. Tacitus mentions a Jesus, but it is likely that after a century of Christian preaching Tacitus was just reacting to these rumours, or probably talking about one of the many other Messiah's of the time. Josephus, a methodical, accurate and dedicated historian of the time mentions John the Baptist, Herod, Pilate and many aspects of Jewish life but does not mention Jesus. (The Testimonium Flavianum has been shown to be a third century Christian fraud). He once mentions a Jesus, but gives no information other than that he is a brother of a James. Jesus was not an unusual name, either. Justus, another Jewish historian who lived in Tiberias (near Kapernaum, a place Jesus frequented) did not mention Jesus nor any of his miracles. It is only in the evidence of later writers, writing about earlier times, that we find a Jesus. What is more surprising (Jesus could simply have been unknown to local historians) is that academics note that the gospels themselves do not allude to first-hand historical sources, either!

 

[Breathe]

17th June is my brother's birthday!!!

(not really sure what that has to do with this! )

LOL! Wish him a happy Chritmas that day, from me

 

[Charity]

I've also read and watched many programs where they say they have proved it was actually around June.
I personally don't believe that anyone knows it's all speculation.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This is the kind of thoughtless garbage that too often gets pawned off as 'fact' ...

(The Testimonium Flavianum has been shown to be a third century Christian fraud).

Therefore? The TF is widely thought to be a partial interpolation, but there is no scholarly consensus that the reference to Jesus was a complete fabrication. See Whealey

He once mentions a Jesus, but gives no information other than that he is a brother of a James. Jesus was not an unusual name, either.

And James even more so. Yet Josephus obviously felt the reference to Jesus was more than adequate to uniquely define the brother.

Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrin without his consent. [Antiquities 20.9]

The most reasonable inference is that it was a reference to the Christian Jesus. Arguments to the contrary are simply contentious.

Justus, another Jewish historian who lived in Tiberias (near Kapernaum, a place Jesus frequented) did not mention Jesus nor any of his miracles.

This is one of those baseless claims that too easily gets accepted by those averse to thinking critically about what they're reading. Did he "not mention Jesus nor any of his miracles." or is most of what he wrote simply lost to us?

Justus of Tiberias was a Jewish author and historian living in the second half of the 1st century AD. Little is known about his life, except as told by his political and literary enemy Josephus Flavius. ...

Justus wrote a history of the war in which he blamed Josephus for the troubles of Galilee. He also portrayed his former master Agrippa in an unfavourable light, but did not publish the work until after Agrippa's death. Justus also wrote a chronicle of the Jewish people from Moses to Agrippa II. Both his works only survive in fragments.

Flavius Josephus, Justus' rival, criticized the Tiberian's account of the war and defended his own conduct in the Autobiography, from whose polemical passages we derive most of what we know about Justus' life. [wiki]

All in all, the quote pretending to debunk historicity is drivel.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've also read and watched many programs where they say they have proved it was actually around June.

I have seen no such proof. Nor have you offered any.

 

[tomspug]

Sometimes astronomy baffles me.

Before Christ's birth, Jupiter (the king planet) appeared to circle Regulus (the king star) three times, apparently coming into conjunction with Venus (the mother planet) in the constellation of Leo (the Lion), making Jesus, by modern astrology, a Gemini.

Does anyone else find that strange? I don't believe in astrology, but sometimes I question the illusion of chaos...

 

[Charity]

I have sen no such proof. Nor have you offered any.

I don't think this is a big enough deal for you to attack me over it. I read several articles in religious magazines and saw several programs on tv like maybe the history channel. Sorry if I had of known I needed to present the evidence in your court of law I would have written down dates, times and etc.
Are you sure your getting enough sugar in your daily intake? Geez

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't think this is a big enough deal for you to attack me over it. ... Geez

And I don't think I was attacking you. Geez

(Between you and me Charity, I'm fairly well read on such topics. This certainly doesn't mean that I'm always right, but it does mean that it would be rather unusual for such proof to exist without it being widely disseminated and discussed by such groups as the SBL and, therefore, without me knowing about it. You may wish to reconsider your standards for proof.)

 

[Lucian]

... Before the aeons.

 

[Charity]

And I don't think I was attacking you. Geez

(Between you and me Charity, I'm fairly well read on such topics. This certainly doesn't mean that I'm always right, but it does mean that it would be rather unusual for such proof to exist without it being widely disseminated and discussed by such groups as the SBL and, therefore, without me knowing about it. You may wish to reconsider your standards for proof.)

Thank you, I'm highly impressed that you are so well versed I merely added a comment that I had heard others discuss this topic. I wasn't offering proof just a statement to say I'm not sure that anyone knows the answer for sure.
Do all religious denominations that print articles in their magazines come under scrutiny before publication of their articles....because I read at least one article in a church magazine supposedly written by someone who has studied this. Their conclusion was around June....If I ever find the article again, I will send you a copy if I have to hand deliver it to you. It really wasn't that important to me but I just recalled reading it......By the way I didn't accept the article as a standard for proof, I stated that I didn't believe anyone really knew for sure.....Thank you very much!
:hug: Have a good day

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do all religious denominations that print articles in their magazines come under scrutiny before publication of their articles ....

I'm sure they don't, hence caveat emptor appears to be the operative principle (and one that you appear to share).

 

[Katzpur]

The Latter-day Saints believe He was born on April 6. We didn't come to this conclusion based on anything other than our belief that this date was revealed to Joseph Smith. I think there are a lot of facts that point to the springtime as being the season in which He was born, but nothing that would die to April 6 as the exact date (except to those who accept what Joseph Smith said on the subject). And in case anybody's interested, we don't celebrate Christ's birth on April 6, but on December 25 like all other Christians.