When will the right stop? When will honesty become an important value again?

[PoetPhilosopher]

Do you stop cancer by not talking about it?

No. But I'd say these rightist politicians are more like internet trolls than human cancer.

Maybe I should just concede and let other people hash it out what to do about it. As I'm feeling a bit indifferent about it, I'm afraid.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Then why make the accusation of it being a strawman? And unwarranted? Just something to say?

Because like many right-wingers they have no defense. Calling it a strawman is another word for saying "I disagree." They believe in using phrases to articulate that they disagree with you.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

No. But I'd say these rightist politicians are more like internet trolls than human cancer.

Maybe I should just concede and let other people hash it out what to do about it. As I'm feeling a bit indifferent about it, I'm afraid.

When people say things like what Morgan Freeman said about "not talking about it" it doesn't change anything because it will still be there which is why I brought up that cancer analogy. The cancerous tumor will still be there if you choose to not address it, and in fact, it will get bigger and potentially spread. Similarly, with not addressing social issues. Social issues don't go away if you choose to not address them. It remains and becomes pervasive and can potentially spread. If people are not told they are wrong how can you foster an environment where learning is involved and instill teachable moments? That is the problem with this country we are afraid to address sensitive and uncomfortable social issues. Some people, groups, politicians, whatever are really wrong so why not address it?

 

[Father Heathen]

What a unwarranted straw man.

They've been apologists for the Jan 6th insurrection and promote the debunked "big steal" conspiracy theory. So no, they're not fans of democracy.

Also, their platform and policies have always favored the wealthy at the expense of the poor and working class (using patriotism and religion to manipulate the gullible among them into voting against their own interests.)

Those are all objective and verifiable facts, son.

 

[Father Heathen]

Are you certain? Got stats?

He has nothing of substance to offer and is just spamming the thread because it caused him a bit of butthurt.

 

[Father Heathen]

As reported by the upstanding, honest, straight as an arrow, esteemed nobles of the left, throughly imbued with integrity I'm sure.

If "the left" appears to embody honesty and integrity, it's only because "the right" abandoned those values when it became the Trump cult.
You can keep drinking the kool-aid like a kid, or you can grow up and detox.

 

[F1fan]

I make no comment other than to post, but there is something much, much, much more sinister going on in the Republican side of the American experiment with democracy.

Tell me what it is.

Anybody.

Frankly I'm stunned how far to the extreme the right has gone. I have conservative friends. the moderate avoid talking politics, probably because they are lost in no-man's-land. The true believers are posting absurd and extreme garbage on Facebook, and get upset when I challenge the content. I have no clue what is going on in the minds of these people.

 

[Valjean]

If "the left" appears to embody honesty and integrity, it's only because "the right" abandoned those values when it became the Trump cult.
You can keep drinking the kool-aid like a kid, or you can grow up and detox.

I think those values have always been in short supply on the right.
The They were avaricious and tribal during the guilded age, through the 20s -- hit a snag in the '30s, with FDR's 'socialist' New Deal -- but worked their way back and hit their stride again around 1980, with Reagan's small government policies and trickle-down economics. Real wages, since then, have largely stagnated for the middle and working classes. True, the stock market and GNP have grown, but so has the cost-of-living. Housing and education are beyond the economic reach of many, and wealth inequality is back at pre-depression levels.

NB: When I speak of The Left, I'm not including the Democratic Party.

 

[Valjean]

Frankly I'm stunned how far to the extreme the right has gone. I have conservative friends. the moderate avoid talking politics, probably because they are lost in no-man's-land. The true believers are posting absurd and extreme garbage on Facebook, and get upset when I challenge the content. I have no clue what is going on in the minds of these people.

I think it's largely being driven by replacement panic. “The Great Replacement:” An Explainer.

It's all happened before, but we've apparently forgotten history, and are doomed to repeat it.

 

[F1fan]

No. They feel as if they represent the U.S. in its entirety; I.e. they're the *real* Americans, thus the country is rightfully theirs.

They seem to think they alone are entitled to leadership, and that Democrats are un-American socialists.

 

[sun rise]

What a unwarranted straw man.

I'm not waiting for a "conservative" on RF to denounce anti-democracy tactics and speak in favor of upholding truth and honor.

 

[sun rise]

I distinguish as always philosophical and economic conservatives who focus on what is good for America and enter into a debate of ideas from the Trump contingent which controls almost all of what used to be the Republican party and promotes cancelling voting, cancelling history, cancelling honesty and cancelling honor.

 

[Valjean]

They seem to think they alone are entitled to leadership, and that Democrats are un-American socialists.

I think there is a might-makes-right component to it, that whatever you acquire you have a right to, but I'm not so sure about their attitude toward Democrats. I think a lot of their rhetoric is just political pandering to their supporters.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They seem to think they alone are entitled to leadership, and that Democrats are un-American socialists.

Definitely. There is no "both are just as bad."
Only one of them is restricting voting rights based on a nonexistent problem they created and fantasy they had this election stolen from them.
And supporting a corrupt police force, pushing through anti-trans bills, fighting against covid restrictions, promoting white genocide, disregards climate change, paints the poor as lazy and is firmly against a minimum wage increase (and often times the minimum wage itself).

 

[exchemist]

Here it is -- the right in Oklahoma (77 counties, all won by Trump, the state won by way over 30%) -- now wants the vote to be distrusted!


What, they think they should have won 78 of those 77 counties? Or 88? Or 206? They think they should have won by 86%? 103% or 409%?

I make no comment other than to post, but there is something much, much, much more sinister going on in the Republican side of the American experiment with democracy.

Tell me what it is.

Anybody.

The only thing that will stop this is a string of election defeats. That will cause them to shift strategy.

If they win, then US "democracy" will become no better than Russia's.

 

[stvdv]

I think the right will stop when we stop giving them all this negative attention.

The "Silence Treatment" is a well known tool, that can work miracles...except with probably most narcissists

 

[Twilight Hue]

If "the left" appears to embody honesty and integrity, it's only because "the right" abandoned those values when it became the Trump cult.
You can keep drinking the kool-aid like a kid, or you can grow up and detox.

Eh. Ten years from now the poles always gets reversed. Dems will be the bad guys and Pubs will be the good guys.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The only thing that will stop this is a string of election defeats. That will cause them to shift strategy.

If they win, then US "democracy" will become no better than Russia's.

Not sure about that. From over here, the institutions of US democracy look fairly robust, so far anyway. The problem may be the electorate itself - Biden comfortably saw off Trump in the end, but that can’t hide the fact that many millions of ordinary Americans voted, in Trump, for a man who appears to have none of the hallmarks of statesman, but all those of a would-be tyrant.

I worry more for the future of democracy in Europe personally. In the U.K. we have no written constitution to protect us when the right start ignoring democratic conventions - as we saw with Cummings and the proroguing of Parliament.

That said, there are signs in the U.K. at least, that the tide may be turning against right wing populism; Boris Johnson backed the wrong horse over England’s football players taking the knee, and I hope it costs him.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Here it is -- the right in Oklahoma (77 counties, all won by Trump, the state won by way over 30%) -- now wants the vote to be distrusted!


What, they think they should have won 78 of those 77 counties? Or 88? Or 206? They think they should have won by 86%? 103% or 409%?

I make no comment other than to post, but there is something much, much, much more sinister going on in the Republican side of the American experiment with democracy.

Tell me what it is.

Anybody.

On the one side, it's a slight tweak to business as usual.

For my entire life - and I'm solidly middle aged at this point - the Republicans have made it a priority to disenfranchise their political opponents.

Back in the day, they did it mainly on the basis of race (for instance). Now, with better data and analysis techniques, they're able to better fine-tune their disenfranchisement tactics to be more effective.

On the other side, it is a bit disturbing that, under Trump, they fully embraced Goebbels' tactic of "the Big Lie." That's a new and troublesome wrinkle.

 

[Shaul]

Do you stop cancer by not talking about it?

Now you’re inferring Republicans are cancer? Nice example of liberal bipartisanship and unity.