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"Where a rational conversation about guns ought to start"
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Or just allow the kind of guns for the general public that the FF had when they wrote the 2nd: single-shot muzzle loaders. Frankly, if the FF were still around today, I gotta feeling that they would say something like "You guys are idiots to have all these powerful guns put into the hands of just about anybody and everybody!". After all, they would be worried about our general security, but of all the industrialized nations, we are the least secure from violent crime, especially homicides, by a large margin. The proof is in the stats.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Sadly I feel its too late to start any where, its already out of hand and there are far to many guns in the wrong hands already, so now we need guns to protect ourselves, and all this is because of a law writtern years ago that many gun nuts cling to.
Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
The anti-gun side does not exactly have a spotless record on rational compromise either. Many of them do not know the first thing about firearms, yet think they are qualified to legislate them.
Also, if you are so gung-ho on repealing the second amendment, go ahead. There is a legal process by which amendments can be changed. Use it. Stop trying to find ways around it.
Some of the common sense reforms offered up last time make a good place to start.
Karl R
Active Member
If you want to have a rational discussion, let's start with some real information.
(I have done my best to only use credible, non-biased sources. The most potentially biased source is the Forbes article, and the author relied on non-biased sources for his data.)
I went to the Bureau of Justice Statistics to see what the trends were. You can download the same data I did and examine it yourself.
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Homicide in the U.S. Known to Law Enforcement, 2011
Most of their data was from 1992 to 2011.
2012 and 2013 statistics have not been published yet.
The homicide rate (homicides per 100,000 people) have been cut in half from 1991 to 2011. Similarly, the firearm homicide rate has been cut in half over the same period.
Males are murdered about 3.5 times as often as females. This has remained fairly consistent from year to year. About 73% of male victims are killed with firearm. About 47% of female victims are killed with a firearm. This has remained very consistent from year to year.
Nonfatal violent firearm crimes have also decreased by a similar amount from 1992 to 2012, according to FBI reports.
FBI — Uniform Crime Reporting
During this period of time when homicides (including firearm-related homicides) have dropped, gun sales have increased.
Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet - Forbes
Where do criminals' guns come from?
(This is based on a 2004 survey of state prison inmates)
2% from a gun show or flea market
10% from a retail shop or pawn shop
37% from a family or friends
40% from an illegal source
Possible changes:
1. Figure out what has caused the dramatic reduction in homicides and other violent crimes from 1992 to 2012, and keep that up.
2. It looks like there could be a considerable reduction in gun violence if illegal guns were taken out of the picture. I couldn't find enough information to see how these guns were moving from legal buyers to illegal buyers. It's possible that changes could be made which would decrease the availability of illegal guns.
There are a couple of thoughts that come to mind.
The first being "Kiss my rear end". This is just my thought and not an actual attack on you. I respect your right to your opinion.
Secondly, I'm not giving up my rights and will put up quite a fight. Only a free man can carry a gun. I have done this all my life and am not about to stop ever.
I have to tell you, if the Liberals were ever successful at repealing the second amendment, you would see a crap storm that would result in our law makers evicted from the capital building.
You would see death, war and misery.
I would seriously invite folks who want to change America into a country our founding fathers would roll in their graves over.
If you want a gun free socialist society, please get the hell out of my country. Perhaps this will happen one day, but not as long as I am sucking air.
My freedoms come from God. They were endowed to me by my creator.
I believe these issues may just come down to push and shove. Oh, by the way, it should be legal to shoot butt holes who text in movie theatres. Turn your damn phone off!
If you want a gun free socialist society, please get the hell out of my country. Perhaps this will happen one day, but not as long as I am sucking air.
My freedoms come from God. They were endowed to me by my creator.
I believe these issues may just come down to push and shove. Oh, by the way, it should be legal to shoot butt holes who text in movie theatres. Turn your damn phone off!
Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
A repeal of the 2nd amendment is one of the very few things I honestly believe would bring this country to the brink of civil war. At the very least, a massive guerrilla force would develop overnight.
Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
You do not believe that. And it does not help the conversation to say so.
It seems they are ready, I doubt they would even need a night, I give it minuets ok maybe hours before they are mobilized.
Ity, been there done that. Get drafted and get back to me.
You all don't get it! Are you ready to fight to the death for your ideals? I seriously doubt it.
Its more then ideals its basic rights.
I bet they'd be willing to let someone else (gov employees) fight to the death for their ideals.
Why not just move? If I hated my country, that is what I would do.
They don't hate their country, they love their country.
Really? You mean our service men and women would take up arms against patriots?
Folks in the military would be for the uprising, they are 95% conservatives.
I would say 75% of LE would be as well.
I