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"Where a rational conversation about guns ought to start"

Iti oj

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Reverend Rick said:
No they don't. They want to change it into something it is not! You don't try to change something if you love it.

Our country was founded on our rights
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They seek to restore it to what it was and should be. Its about defending America, the constitution and our rights.
 
Reverend Rick

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Iti oj said:
They seek to restore it to what it was and should be. Its about defending America, the constitution and our rights.
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If we were to restore it, women and blacks would not be able to vote and slavery would be legal. Even I don't want that!

Ity, your not going to ever change my mind, so we should just agree to disagree. I love and respect you, but repealing the second amendment would put this country back 100 years. Our government as we know it would be gone.
 
Iti oj

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Reverend Rick said:
If we were to restore it, women and blacks would not be able to vote and slavery would be legal. Even I don't want that!

Ity, your not going to ever change my mind, so we should just agree to disagree. I love and respect you, but repealing the second amendment would put this country back 100 years. Our government as we know it would be gone.
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I'm slightly confused now. Are we on the same page? I think we both want to keep and defend the second

also their is a difference between appeals laws and appealing constitutional amendments.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Reverend Rick said:
I would seriously invite folks who want to change America into a country our founding fathers would roll in their graves over.

If you want a gun free socialist society, please get the hell out of my country. Perhaps this will happen one day, but not as long as I am sucking air.

My freedoms come from God. They were endowed to me by my creator.

I believe these issues may just come down to push and shove. Oh, by the way, it should be legal to shoot butt holes who text in movie theatres. Turn your damn phone off!
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Is anybody actually promising a complete ban of all guns of every kind, or are people just proposing things like background checks?
 
Apex

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
Karl R said:
If you want to have a rational discussion, let's start with some real information.
(I have done my best to only use credible, non-biased sources. The most potentially biased source is the Forbes article, and the author relied on non-biased sources for his data.)

I went to the Bureau of Justice Statistics to see what the trends were. You can download the same data I did and examine it yourself.
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Homicide in the U.S. Known to Law Enforcement, 2011

Most of their data was from 1992 to 2011.
2012 and 2013 statistics have not been published yet.

The homicide rate (homicides per 100,000 people) have been cut in half from 1991 to 2011. Similarly, the firearm homicide rate has been cut in half over the same period.

Males are murdered about 3.5 times as often as females. This has remained fairly consistent from year to year. About 73% of male victims are killed with firearm. About 47% of female victims are killed with a firearm. This has remained very consistent from year to year.

Nonfatal violent firearm crimes have also decreased by a similar amount from 1992 to 2012, according to FBI reports.
FBI — Uniform Crime Reporting

During this period of time when homicides (including firearm-related homicides) have dropped, gun sales have increased.
Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet - Forbes

Where do criminals' guns come from?
(This is based on a 2004 survey of state prison inmates)
2% from a gun show or flea market
10% from a retail shop or pawn shop
37% from a family or friends
40% from an illegal source


Possible changes:

1. Figure out what has caused the dramatic reduction in homicides and other violent crimes from 1992 to 2012, and keep that up.

2. It looks like there could be a considerable reduction in gun violence if illegal guns were taken out of the picture. I couldn't find enough information to see how these guns were moving from legal buyers to illegal buyers. It's possible that changes could be made which would decrease the availability of illegal guns.
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Looking at that data, if we could duplicate the reason for the massive drop in the 90's right now, firearm homicides in the US would all but disappear completely.
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
I have a better idea.
New Law
1. Upon conviction of a crime against property or person and during the commission of this act a firearm was involved the below punishment will be enacted within 1 day of the conviction.
Taking to a public place and be hung by the neck until dead
2. There will be no appeals.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
esmith said:
I have a better idea.
New Law
1. Upon conviction of a crime against property or person and during the commission of this act a firearm was involved the below punishment will be enacted within 1 day of the conviction.
Taking to a public place and be hung by the neck until dead
2. There will be no appeals.
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The past tense of "hang" is "hanged' in the context of the noose!
If we're gonna execute'm, we should do so with good grammar.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Revoltingest said:
The past tense of "hang" is "hanged' in the context of the noose!
If we're gonna execute'm, we should do so with good grammar.
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"Pedants are no more guardians of language than the Kennel Club is the guardian of dogkind.”
Stephen Fry
​
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Reverend Rick said:
A compilation from RR:

The first being "Kiss my rear end".

If you want a gun free socialist society, please get the hell out of my country.

Oh, by the way, it should be legal to shoot butt holes who text in movie theatres. Turn your damn phone off!

You all don't get it! Are you ready to fight to the death for your ideals? I seriously doubt it.

Why not just move? If I hated my country, that is what I would do.

No they don't. They want to change it into something it is not! You don't try to change something if you love it.

No they don't. They want to change it into something it is not! You don't try to change something if you love it.

Our country was founded on our rights
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
esmith said:
I have a better idea.
New Law
1. Upon conviction of a crime against property or person and during the commission of this act a firearm was involved the below punishment will be enacted within 1 day of the conviction.
Taking to a public place and be hung by the neck until dead
2. There will be no appeals.
Click to expand...

So you're willing to throw away the things that make you actually free (e.g. fair trials with the option of appeal) in order to keep your guns? This gives an interesting glimpse into what your priorities really are.

If you trust the government so much that you don't think that its courts need the checks and balances of the appeal system, why do you need your guns?
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
So you're willing to throw away the things that make you actually free (e.g. fair trials with the option of appeal) in order to keep your guns? This gives an interesting glimpse into what your priorities really are.

If you trust the government so much that you don't think that its courts need the checks and balances of the appeal system, why do you need your guns?
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Ever here the term facetious?
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Frankly, many of the things you say seriously seem ridiculous to me, so it's hard for me to tell when you're saying something ridiculous as a joke.
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I've got an easy rule of thumb when it comes to esmith: he is never joking. Being outraged about the end of the freedom is a full time job.
 
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