Where are the Dead?

[Sgt. Pepper]

I think this sounds like it makes sense.But I have read other passages that confuse me.

Frank, I hope that you're not discouraged from examining the legitimacy of the Bible. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to continue to believe in the Bible, that is entirely your decision. But if, after genuinely examining the credibility of the Bible, you decide to dismiss it as purely mythical and full of contradictions, then that is also entirely your decision. I'd like to advise you not to let anyone guilt-trip you and coerce you into continuing to believe in the Bible, though. Additionally, I would like to advise you not to pay attention to anyone who disparages other people who hold different beliefs from their own by claiming that they are under the influence of demonic forces. In my opinion, that's a scare tactic, and it should be dismissed as such and ignored. Finally, I'd like to encourage you to keep asking questions about the Bible and keep examining it until you are able to make a decision about whether you want to continue believing in it or not. Honestly, I believe you're capable of determining for yourself whether to believe in the Bible or not.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Why do you think the sleep part should be included? Nobody sleeps in death. That is what is misleading.

I believe that you're correct that no one sleeps in death. Soul sleep is taught in the Bible (Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, John 11:11–15, 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). It is in the Bible, along with all the other misleading verbiage about the afterlife. It has contradictory teachings. For example, Hebrews 9:27 implies that a person faces God's judgment immediately after death, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 implies that a Christian who dies is instantly in the presence of Jesus. In addition, Hebrews 9:27 conflicts with Revelation 20:13. It clearly states, "The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."

2 Corinthians 5:8 conflicts with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 because it states, "13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Contradictions.

Matthew 27:51-53 implies soul sleep for believers: "Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many." And Daniel 12:2 implies soul sleep for both believers and unbelievers, which conflicts with Hebrews 9:27 and 2 Corinthians 5:8. Daniel 12:2 states, "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." 2 Chronicles 32:33 also implies soul sleep: "And Hezekiah slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the upper part of the tombs of the sons of David; and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honor at his death." And Manasseh, his son, reigned in his place. " There are other similar verses: 2 Chronicles 33:20; 1 Kings 15:8; 1 Kings 16:28; 2 Kings 13:13; and 2 Kings 14:29. We have conflicting teachings.

And, finally, John 11:11-15 implies soul sleep as well. It states, "After saying these things, he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I will go to awaken him." The disciples said to him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant to take rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus has died, and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe." But let us go to him." Notice that Jesus did not say that Lazarus' spirit went directly to heaven after death and was in His presence or that Lazarus' spirit faced judgment immediately after death or that his spirit came up from under the ground. He said that Lazarus had fallen asleep and that he would go wake him up, but he was dead. I think it's clear that the Bible is misleading. All of this, of course, is in addition to what I wrote in my prior post on the subject.

Where are the Dead?

I think this sounds like it makes sense.But I have read other passages that confuse me.:confused: I've been thinking about what you stated in your post, and it reinforces my conviction that what the Bible teaches about what happens to people after they die is clearly inaccurate and misleading...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Trailblazer]

Soul sleep is taught in the Bible (Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, John 11:11–15, 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). It is in the Bible, along with all the other misleading verbiage about the afterlife.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

My late husband has made sure I know he is still alive in the spiritual world by causing paranormal things to happen in my house, although he should know that I already know that since we have the same religious beliefs. There is no normal explanation for these paranormal things that have happened. I am going to contact him using a psychic medium in due time. Meanwhile, I know he could pop back in at any time. I don't know how that works, how he can come from the spiritual world to the material world, and then go back to the spiritual world, but my friend @Sgt. Pepper is the expert on these psychic things.

As I previously stated, I believe that communicating with your late husband is best accomplished through a genuine psychic medium. If you remember, I suggested that you not reveal any personal information about him, including details about his life or personal character, the circumstances surrounding his death, or even his name. And if the opportunity presents itself, I recommend that you prepare specific questions to ask your husband, but not so specific that the medium will catch on. If the medium is genuine, he or she will not require prior knowledge of a spirit or their physical life. As I've stated before, there aren't many people that I know in person who are aware of my mediumship, but there are other paranormal investigators I know and trust who are.

If one of the paranormal investigators I know asks me to use my abilities at a haunted location, I'll remind them that I don't want to know anything about their personal experiences there. If the location is a house, a building, another type of structure, or a public business, I don't want to know anything about the current or previous owners or the property's history. If I'm given a personal object to hold so that I can possibly connect with a spirit, I will make it clear that I don't want to know anything about the person who owned that object before they passed away. And if I'm being driven to a specific location, then I don't want to know where I'm being taken. I actually prefer that no one speaks to me while we're traveling so that I can focus on any possible messages from spirits. It's important to me that I have a clear mind before doing a reading for another person or when I'm investigating a well-known or suspected haunted location. I want to make sure that my reading or what I'm sensing at a haunted location is accurate and that nothing has influenced me. I can't speak for other mediums, but that's what I do when I'm asked to give a reading or when I'm asked to use my abilities during a paranormal investigation.

Finally, I've already shared some of my experiences in other threads, so I won't repeat them here. I'll just post the links to them as a reference.

Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

It can be a mental disease of course. Maybe you could explain how that works. I believe the mental conditions are only called diseases if the person can't cope with them. Also as is often the case with the medical industry the symptoms will be treated and not the cause.

www.religiousforums.com

 

[DNB]

Dead people are dead. Why be so greedy as to want more life than what is available? Ungrateful?

Take the time you have and make that time well spent.

What about the billions that have died prematurely, unjustly or outside their control?
Will justice be served to those who died at the hands of a criminal, an unforeseen accident, or a hereditary terminal illness?

 

[DNB]

Are the dead alive somewhere?
Can the dead interact with the living... or dead?
Is there any hope for the dead... can the dead live again?

Some scriptures I found answers these questions...

Spoiler: Scriptures

Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

(Psalm 104:29) When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.
(Psalm 146:3, 4) 3 Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 3:20) All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.

(Ecclesiastes 9:4-10) 4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. ... 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

(Isaiah 26:19) “Your dead will live. My corpses will rise up. Awake and shout joyfully, You residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of the morning, And the earth will let those powerless in death come to life.

(Hosea 13:14) From the power of the Grave I will redeem them; From death I will recover them. Where are your stings, O Death? Where is your destructiveness, O Grave? Compassion will be concealed from my eyes.

(Mark 12:26) But concerning the dead being raised up, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account about the thornbush, that God said to him: ‘I am the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob’?

(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

(John 11:24, 25) 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

(Acts 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

(1 Corinthians 15:21) For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.

Basically, those scriptures tell us

• the dead are not alive anywhere... except in God's memory. Luke 20:38
• the dead cannot communicate with either the living, or the dead. They cannot do anything. They are inactive - in the powerful grip of death.
• the dead can... will live again, by means of a resurrection, which God promises, and is both willing and able to carry out.

On examining these scriptures, do you agree this is what we find?

There is no human that has ever died that is currently alive or conscious, in any realm or sphere. All are asleep in the grave waiting for Judgment Day.
Only Jesus, the human who died around 30ad, is alive in heaven, seated at God's right hand.

 

[F1fan]

What about the billions that have died prematurely, unjustly or outside their control?

Do you mean murder victims, much like how many people were tortured and executed for witchcraft by your fellow Christians? Well that’s how some humans behave in ignorance.


But I’m not sure why you’re asking about them, we all live and die, and some have better luck than others.

Will justice be served to those who died at the hands of a criminal, an unforeseen accident, or a hereditary terminal illness?

Not when Christians are the murderers and the law. This is why secular law offers better justice over theocracies.

 

[F1fan]

There is no human that has ever died that is currently alive or conscious, in any realm or sphere. All are asleep in the grave waiting for Judgment Day.

Doubtful. And absurd.

Only Jesus, the human who died around 30ad, is alive in heaven, seated at God's right hand.

So heaven only has one soul in it? Well I guess that’s bad news for all the believers over the centuries that believed they are going there. Hell must be overcrowded.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I don't care….

That comes through, yes.
Is it a good stance to take?
No.

Nobody sleeps in death. That is what is misleading.

There is no such thing as a demon or Satan.

The events in Job 1 & Job 2, show Satan in Heaven. He cannot be just ‘man’s evil nature’, since no men are in Heaven.

Who tempted Jesus? (Matthew 4) He had no ‘sinful nature.’

Why would God forbid His people from “inquiring of the dead”? (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)
“There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. “

So where’s the harm? Because Jehovah/Yahweh lumped it together with *practicing magic*, omens, & sorcery.

In Exodus 7, where Moses faces off against Pharaoh’s priests *practicing magic*, the account reveals there are invisible forces working in opposition to Jehovah’s.

That’s why Jehovah forbids it. It’s a protection for us.

@Sgt. Pepper , where do you see “immediate” in Hebrews 9:27?
It says “after”. That could be thousands of years after. And actually, for many (who’ve already been sleeping in death for eons), it will be: Acts 24:15 speaks of a Resurrection of judgement.

There’s a wonderful harmony “revealed” within the Bible, when Jehovah (Jesus’ Father) is worshipped & accepted as the Author (Luke 10:21). Without Jehovah’s help, as Jesus stated, an accurate understanding is impossible.

I’m probably not going to reach you, I understand; you’ve been having experiences with these spirits for a long time. But you seem to be a very caring person, so I feel it important to try. Lord knows, you’ve been treated badly by others; my heart goes out to you.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I know that some spirits feel remorse for how they lived their lives and will often seek forgiveness and reconciliation with their living loved ones. I think that it's truly sad that so many of these human spirits are confused and upset because they aren't asleep in their graves or in heaven as they expected and believed they would be after death. Based on my experience, many Christians are in total shock after they die because they aren't where they expected to be and had been taught to believe. These spirits are lost and confused, and some are even angry and feel betrayed. To be honest, I can't blame them for being so confused and upset. This is why I believe the Bible's teachings on the afterlife are very inaccurate and misleading. I can't emphasize enough how unfortunate I believe it is that the Bible's teachings on the afterlife have resulted in many human spirits being earthbound and stuck in the physical world.

In my opinion, Christians should not rely on the Bible for learning about the afterlife, but I realize that is unlikely. Unfortunately, what they believe about the afterlife as taught in the Bible results in my encounters with lost and confused earthbound human spirits. Over the years, I've encountered and spoken with many of these spirits who were either very confused and scared or very angry because they believed they were betrayed and lied to when they were told they would be asleep in their grave or they would be in heaven. Many of these poor souls were stuck for years until either I or other mediums guided them to cross over, and sadly, some are still stuck because they are too afraid or too angry to cross over into the spirit world. As I've previously mentioned before, many of them have asked me, "Where is God?" or "Where is Jesus?" and "Why am I not in heaven yet?" I have to explain what's happening to them.

As a psychic medium and a former Christian, it truly saddens me to encounter these spirits because their belief in the Bible misled them. Not only are they scared and confused, but many of them feel as if they were betrayed, and they are angry about that. In my experience, these angry spirits are the hardest to cross over because they think that they were lied to and have a right to feel betrayed. But it's also very difficult to convince a scared and confused spirit to cross over as well, such as the spirit of the young girl that I mentioned several weeks ago in a previous post (read here). I will say that it is truly an honor to assist these earthbound spirits in crossing over into the spirit world, but the experience can be quite sad for me at times. I am sad to say that there are times when I can't convince one of these spirits to cross over. It saddens me to think about how these spirits are lost and are either wandering aimlessly or staying at their grave, where they died, or in a place where they felt welcome and safe. I try to help these spirits, but they don't always want to be helped.

Are you aware that there are people who claim they’ve been in Heaven or Hell?

Is Hell Real?

Journeys to the devil’s domain are more common than you might think.

www.thedailybeast.com

Now, I’m not saying that everyone of these people experienced something real, real at least to them — some could have just made it up — but there is a common thread: just like you’ve experienced, that, either way, the dead are portrayed as being alive!

In other ways tho, completely opposite from yours: your experiences seem to be with “confused” spirits, tending to discredit the Bible. Yet for these others, their experiences seem to support the view they think is in the Bible, that they’re contentedly in Heaven, or miserably in Hell. But like I said…. Either way, they’re depicted as being “alive in another dimension”.

How do you correlate these three differing outcomes?

 

[Trailblazer]

That comes through, yes.
Is it a good stance to take?
No.

Why isn't it a good stance to take? You refer to the Bible for everything so why can't I refer to the Baha'i Writings?
I get a better understanding of the Bible by reading the Baha'i Writings.

The events in Job 1 & Job 2, show Satan in Heaven. He cannot be just ‘man’s evil nature’, since no men are in Heaven.

I do not believe there is an actual entity called Satan. By Satan is meant the natural inclinations of man's lower nature. This lower nature in man is symbolized as Satan—the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside.

No men are in heaven? Where do you think all the people who have died to date are?

Who tempted Jesus? (Matthew 4) He had no ‘sinful nature.’

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The way I interpret those verses is that Jesus was not talking to a real entity called Satan; Jesus was saying to Peter that the things that are not of God but are rather of men (selfish desires) are offensive to Him, so they are evil. Satan symbolizes evil, the lower nature of man. Then Jesus tells His disciples to deny their selfish desires and to follow in His Way. For whoever will live for their selfish desires shall lose his eternal life, but whoever will sacrifice his life for the sake of Jesus and God shall gain eternal life. It is the soul that gets eternal life, not the body.

Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God, which according to Jesus comes from believing in Him. One can have eternal life in this earthly world as well as in the spiritual world (afterlife).

Why would God forbid His people from “inquiring of the dead”? (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)
“There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. “

So where’s the harm? Because Jehovah/Yahweh lumped it together with *practicing magic*, omens, & sorcery.

In Exodus 7, where Moses faces off against Pharaoh’s priests *practicing magic*, the account reveals there are invisible forces working in opposition to Jehovah’s.

That’s why Jehovah forbids it. It’s a protection for us.

I do not believe that because I believe that Deuteronomy was written for another age in history, not for this age.
Similarly we do not stone homosexuals and adulterers to death just because it says that in Deuteronomy. This is a new age and times have changed. The Old Testament was written to apply to certain people who lived thousands of years ago but it does not apply to people living now.

There might be some dangers in trying to contact the dead but not for the reasons you gave, that it is detestable to God. The danger is because there are a lot of charlatans out there so it would be possible to get a false reading, leading one to believe they had contacted a loved one when they really did not. However that does not preclude the possibility that there are psychic mediums who are genuine and sincere.

 

[Frank Goad]

Why isn't it a good stance to take? You refer to the Bible for everything so why can't I refer to the Baha'i Writings?
I get a better understanding of the Bible by reading the Baha'i Writings.

I do not believe there is an actual entity called Satan. By Satan is meant the natural inclinations of man's lower nature. This lower nature in man is symbolized as Satan—the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside.

No men are in heaven? Where do you think all the people who have died to date are?

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The way I interpret those verses is that Jesus was not talking to a real entity called Satan; Jesus was saying to Peter that the things that are not of God but are rather of men (selfish desires) are offensive to Him, so they are evil. Satan symbolizes evil, the lower nature of man. Then Jesus tells His disciples to deny their selfish desires and to follow in His Way. For whoever will live for their selfish desires shall lose his eternal life, but whoever will sacrifice his life for the sake of Jesus and God shall gain eternal life. It is the soul that gets eternal life, not the body.

Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God, which according to Jesus comes from believing in Him. One can have eternal life in this earthly world as well as in the spiritual world (afterlife).

I do not believe that because I believe that Deuteronomy was written for another age in history, not for this age.
Similarly we do not stone homosexuals and adulterers to death just because it says that in Deuteronomy. This is a new age and times have changed. The Old Testament was written to apply to certain people who lived thousands of years ago but it does not apply to people living now.

There might be some dangers in trying to contact the dead but not for the reasons you gave, that it is detestable to God. The danger is because there are a lot of charlatans out there so it would be possible to get a false reading, leading one to believe they had contacted a loved one when they really did not. However that does not preclude the possibility that there are psychic mediums who are genuine and sincere.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 4:1-11 - King James Version I got this from this website:

Matthew 4:1-11

King James Version

​

4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

If the devil is in our heads.How do you explain Matthew 4:1-11?

 

[Trailblazer]

If the devil is in our heads.How do you explain Matthew 4:1-11?

Figuratively, not literally. What was tempting Jesus was his own lower nature.
Jesus was both human and divine so he had both a human nature and a divine nature, so He could be tempted just like any other human.
You don't believe that everything in the Bible is intended to be interpreted literally do you?

“…… Satan, by which we mean the natural inclinations of the lower nature. This lower nature in man is symbolized as Satan—the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside.” Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 286-287

“The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm…. God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.“
Abdu’l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 294–295.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Similarly we do not stone homosexuals and adulterers to death just because it says that in Deuteronomy.

Or execute witches these days. I feel for all the poor souls who were accused of witchcraft and were murdered during the Christian-instituted witch trials, such as in Salem. I visited Salem last summer and went to different places in town, including the Salem Witch Museum. It was a sad experience for me.

There might be some dangers in trying to contact the dead but not for the reasons you gave, that it is detestable to God. The danger is because there are a lot of charlatans out there so it would be possible to get a false reading, leading one to believe they had contacted a loved one when they really did not. However that does not preclude the possibility that there are psychic mediums who are genuine and sincere.

It can be dangerous to interact with spirits, but negative encounters have been rare for me and for the other mediums that I personally know or whom I trust to be genuine mediums and sincere with their mediumship. And yes, sadly, there are charlatans who claim to be mediums in order to take advantage of people and swindle their money. It's an unfortunate reality that can make my life a bit more difficult when I'm giving a reading and there are skeptics nearby. However, they stop their heckling once I reveal some private information that was only known to the person I'm reading and their deceased loved one. It's even better when I'm able to give them a reading that shocks them into silence. I never ask for money, and I don't ever give a public reading with a lot of people either. I only offer a reading to someone if I'm sure that they will be open to it, and I only give an in-person reading. I prefer the reading to be given privately, without a lot of people around. I prefer private readings because I'm also an empath, so I feel the emotions of the people around me.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Figuratively, not literally. What was tempting Jesus was his own lower nature.
Jesus was both human and divine so he had both a human nature and a divine nature, so He could be tempted just like any other human.
You don't believe that everything in the Bible is intended to be interpreted literally do you?

“…… Satan, by which we mean the natural inclinations of the lower nature. This lower nature in man is symbolized as Satan—the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside.” Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 286-287

“The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm…. God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.“
Abdu’l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 294–295.

Informative.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that you're correct that no one sleeps in death. Soul sleep is taught in the Bible (Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, John 11:11–15, 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). It is in the Bible, along with all the other misleading verbiage about the afterlife. It has contradictory teachings. For example, Hebrews 9:27 implies that a person faces God's judgment immediately after death, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 implies that a Christian who dies is instantly in the presence of Jesus. In addition, Hebrews 9:27 conflicts with Revelation 20:13. It clearly states, "The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."

2 Corinthians 5:8 conflicts with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 because it states, "13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Contradictions.

Matthew 27:51-53 implies soul sleep for believers: "Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many." And Daniel 12:2 implies soul sleep for both believers and unbelievers, which conflicts with Hebrews 9:27 and 2 Corinthians 5:8. Daniel 12:2 states, "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." 2 Chronicles 32:33 also implies soul sleep: "And Hezekiah slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the upper part of the tombs of the sons of David; and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honor at his death." And Manasseh, his son, reigned in his place. " There are other similar verses: 2 Chronicles 33:20; 1 Kings 15:8; 1 Kings 16:28; 2 Kings 13:13; and 2 Kings 14:29. We have conflicting teachings.

And, finally, John 11:11-15 implies soul sleep as well. It states, "After saying these things, he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I will go to awaken him." The disciples said to him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant to take rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus has died, and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe." But let us go to him." Notice that Jesus did not say that Lazarus' spirit went directly to heaven after death and was in His presence or that Lazarus' spirit faced judgment immediately after death or that his spirit came up from under the ground. He said that Lazarus had fallen asleep and that he would go wake him up, but he was dead. I think it's clear that the Bible is misleading. All of this, of course, is in addition to what I wrote in my prior post on the subject.

Where are the Dead?

I think this sounds like it makes sense.But I have read other passages that confuse me.:confused: I've been thinking about what you stated in your post, and it reinforces my conviction that what the Bible teaches about what happens to people after they die is clearly inaccurate and misleading...

www.religiousforums.com

Looking at the account thoughtfully, with insight and recognition that the dead know nothing, those coming out of the graves at the time of Jesus' execution were not given life again. Rather their bodies were thrown out of the graves from the earthquake and the experience was related (appeared to many). Everlasting life is that which is proposed for those who gain God's approval. Everlasting contempt and shame does not mean everlasting life.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Figuratively, not literally. What was tempting Jesus was his own lower nature.

I believe that Satan is simply another fabricated story in the Bible, just as the stories of the talking serpent and talking donkey are, as is the story of a man named Jonah living in the belly of a big fish for three days. On the other hand, I believe that scriptures in the Bible such as "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" (Psalm 137:9) and "Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys'" (I Samuel 15:3) is very disturbing and part of the reason why I don't think that anyone should derive their sense of morality and justice from the Bible. I'd also like to mention this: Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits.

 

[cataway]

these demons you are dealing with are not your friends they will do you wrong .likely already have

 

[nPeace]

The events in Job 1 & Job 2, show Satan in Heaven. He cannot be just ‘man’s evil nature’, since no men are in Heaven.

That's an excellent point, brother.
In fact, it's so excellent a point, that any logical and reasonable person would have to admit that any claim that Satan is just the lower nature of man, is proven to be unsupported by the Bible.
There is no interpretation under the sun, that could make that verse say Satan is not a person - an individual entity.

@Trailblazer's response though, to that is what? 'I do not believe... I believe'.
In other words, what's logical and reasonable, and clearly obvious, don't matter. What matters is 'what I believe'.

I have no problem with a person saying they don't believe the Bible, but I have a problem with a person saying they do, but then dismissing anything the Bible contains, which disagree with what they believe.
Jesus denounced the Pharisees for that.