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"Where Did Life Come From?" A 13 Minute Primer For Creationists
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Ah, so everyone is under Satan's influence to some degree, and if we were to plot the level of Satanic influence on a spectrum, Witnesses would be on the end with the least amount of influence and atheists (or maybe Satanists) would be on the other end?
If that's about right, then you would put many of the world's scientists (those who agree with UCA) more towards the atheistic/Satanic end, and the true ID creationists on the other, with Behe a little more towards the atheistic/Satanic than the true ID creationists, right?
And if I have all that correct, would you say the means by which you tell where someone belongs on that spectrum is by comparing how their views and beliefs line up with God's Word, right?
I personally wouldn't say that at all.
I only ever knew one Witness for most of my life. He and I were pretty good friends and the only time his religion came up was when we had to sneak around his grandma to catch that night's basketball scores and highlights (apparently JW's don't approve of sports). But after having attempted to discuss science-related topics with you, Deeje, and nPeace here, I have to say I'm rather confounded by your faith. It represents a way of thinking that is pretty much the opposite of my own. It's something I just plain cannot relate to in any way.
As far as being a skeptic, I don't think any good skeptic would ever submit to the sort of "believe these things or else we'll ruin your life" framework that the Jehovah's Witnesses employ.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I know! They should have known that the price is 200 foreskin for one princess:
1 Samuel 18:27 David and his men went out and killed two hundred Philistines. He brought their foreskins and presented them as payment in full to become the king's son-in-law. Then Saul gave his daughter Michal to David in marriage.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, they are the opposite of skeptics. Skeptics follow the evidence and most Jehovah's Witnesses are afraid to even learn the concept.I
It would be far more correct to say that Jehovah's Witnesses are the most blatant of deniers.
What? Where did you come up with that?
How would we “employ” such a tactic?
We just talk with people, trying to teach accurate Bible truth. 2 Timothy 2:4
No, the memory issues are not mine!
Did you read all of this you sent me?
It is about assessing the viability of the Flood through the lens of Young Earth Creationism.
I told you that.
I know the Flood did not lay down the rock strata. But it did erode those layers, in many places!
Let me ask you this (if you’re willing to reason on it):
The Genesis account discloses that much of the water — I’d say a huge majority of it — came from “vast underground springs” that were “broken open”.
Now, what’s gonna happen to the land resting above it? It would cave inward.
It supports the description found @ Psalms 104:8-9, that “the valleys fell.” And from the perspective of an observer on the ground, this would make it seem ‘the mountains were rising.’
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
We've been over this dude. It comes straight from what Deeje told me about how if she were to deviate from Witness doctrine on evolution, she would be treated like a "rotten piece of fruit" and someone who was "spreading poison" by her fellow Witnesses. Another Witness here described how in the same situation, the person would be questioned by Witness leadership and if they didn't relent and return to JW doctrine they would be removed from the faith (and as we know, that also means they will be shunned by the Witness community). It's also right there on your own websites, where it says "If evolution is true, life has no lasting purpose".
That's pretty much the opposite of skepticism.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
???????? You do realize that it's possible to believe that the Biblical flood occurred ~4,000 years ago, and believe that the earth is millions or billions of years old, right?
My reason for sending you the article remains. It shows that Christian geologists, even though they truly believed in the Bible (including the flood story), eventually had to reject the Biblical flood because of the geological evidence they uncovered. It was personally painful for them, but they felt the evidence left them no choice.
That negates the argument that the reason geologists reject the Biblical flood is because of an anti-Bible agenda.
However, I now understand how you believe everyone is under Satanic influence to one degree or another. So I suppose under that belief, you could just say that it was Satan who influenced them into rejecting the Biblical flood and their Christian faith just wasn't strong enough to resist. And that's the main problem with trying to discuss science with folks like you. I know you don't like the term, but basically you explain away much of reality by appealing to "magic" (and there is no effective difference between "magic" and "supernatural intervention"). That's just a way of thinking and interpreting the world around you that I simply cannot relate to at all.
Honestly, when it comes to what you believe about the Biblical flood, I have no idea any more. Earlier you told me you believed it happened millions or even billions of years ago, which makes absolutely no sense at all. And now you say that it didn't lay down any strata?
Um......okay?
I'd ask follow-up questions about the mechanisms behind that and the subsequent effects, but I'm pretty sure I already know your answer will along the lines of "Jehovah did that".
No. “It” is not the Flood, grief! “It” is the Earth.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Okay then. About how long ago do you believe the flood occurred?
Then there's nothing in the article I gave you that would indicate that those geologists' rejection of the flood was contingent on how old they thought the earth was.
Also, you're once again doing that thing where you ignore most of what I post to you and only respond to one or two snippets. Do you appreciate how rude that is?
Rude? You have done the same thing....
For over 4 years, I’ve been telling you guys that I’m not a YEC, but I accept the Genesis account of a literal Global Flood. I’ve been very clear. And you are just now understanding that?
You still didn’t answer me...you meant “it’s impossible”...right?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But once again, there is no difference for all practical purposes between a YEC and a believer in a worldwide flood. You both have to ignore almost all of the sciences since they all say that you are wrong.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Even if so, not at all to the degree you have. And you just did it again with this post!
I'll ask again....about how long ago do you believe the flood occurred?
No, I've understood that for quite a while now.
Um.....no. It is possible to believe the flood occurred ~4,000 years ago and believe that the earth is billions of years old. Why wouldn't it be?
Well, I’m not necessarily convinced that it was as the Masoretic text says...Ussher’s timeline, of c.2370 BCE., may be in error.
I tend to go with the timeline as laid out in the LXX, of a Flood date around 3220 BCE.
1975 -- A Marked Date?
About 5,240 years ago, possibly.
I don’t know. Y’all seem to have issues with it, like you all don’t know what to do w/ it.
Yes, I do realize it.
But you seemed incredulous, here....as if you meant it’s impossible. (Why bold the “and”?)
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Then why is there no reliable evidence for an event that would have left massive evidence?
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
This is making no sense at all. On one hand you complain that we allegedly keep thinking you're a YEC because you believe in the Biblical flood, but then when I say it's possible to believe in the flood and an ancient earth, you seem confused by that and keep trying to correct me into saying it's impossible to believe both.
To...be....absolutely....clear.......I fully understand that you are not a YEC. I fully understand that you also believe in the Biblical flood and that it occurred ~5,000 years ago. I also fully understand that those to beliefs are not mutually exclusive.
Okay?
It’s not so black-and-white as that! There are quite a few different things that can make up a person’s belief system....a big part of that, is how they view other people, with care or disdain.
To a major degree, but also, again, how they deal with others... if they are willing to be forgiving, patient, merciful, prone to anger, etc., if they’re honest, or lazy, or whatever: their behavior.
Jehovah looks at the heart, not so much beliefs.
But the Scriptures are (Jehovah is) clear: “the Devil....is misleading the entire inhabited Earth”! Revelation 12 7-9,12
It won’t last forever.
OK.