Where do I go from here?!

[ANEJIP]

I'll try to keep this short. I'm looking for some advice. I was raised in a Christian home (Baptist) and have always been a very "spiritual/religious" person. I've been taught you can have a personal relationship with Jesus and I have relied on that for most of my life.....praying for peace, wisdom, etc etc

Over the past 10 years my husband and I have studied and have questioned a lot of what Christianity does, mainly the holidays that are so grounded in pagan practice....seems like an oxymoron to not attend church so our children aren't around something we believe is pagan?!

This past year we have researched even more and are now at the point where we are questioning the validity of the New Testament and find ourselves not believing that Jesus was the Messiah. Now I feel like I'm in a really weird place....we have reached out to some synagogues but they aren't very welcoming at all. I am not even sure that converting to Judaism is something we would want to do. However I am not happy being a "noahide". It seems like if you're not born Jewish you're just sort of in the middle somewhere.

Now I am just feeling so lost where I am not sure where I would even fit in with my beliefs.

I hope none of my questions are offensive to anyone...just hoping someone else may have been in the same situation and can offer me some guidance.

 

[Madhuri]

I think a lot of people are in your situation, in terms of questioning their faith and feeling spiritually lost. It's a really hard feeling because even though you've become skeptical about your faith, you still hold on to parts of it and want to find a way to squeeze back in where possible.

What's the right next step will be different for each person and I don't know what is best for you. But I don't encourage trying to force belief or force religious affiliation. If there's a truth out there that can be realised, I think it's better to take your time and explore with an open mind. That's just my 2 cents though

Welcome to RF!

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Having a relationship with someone isn't always going to be pleasant. When Jesus chided Martha for not listening to him like Mary did, she COULD have retorted "I don't see you doing the dishes either, hon."

Many Christians will say that you have to have the milk first, and then the meat. I came to see Christianity as popularly portrayed as the milk and the "meat" is a more mature version where you don't have to agree with everything, but you can still get your stuff done.

I found it easier to live as the prophets did, in the sense that they were just chilling out in the boonies somewhere until they felt a hankering to spread the news, LOL. I am a Progessive Christian, I suppose, though like you, I'm disappointed in where Christianity is today and even more depressed about it when I realize it started before Jesus' body was even cold. Fame-mongering and greed and hypocrisy have been there since the gospels.

I consider myself a follower of the Way (the old term for Jesus' message). I'm not going to live like an ancient Israeli, just as Jesus didn't go around in fig leaves just because Adam and Eve did, you know?

I think baptism is like being born, then church is like going to school, and then you eventually (hopefully) graduate so you can live out the rest of your life as an adult.

 

[rusra02]

I'll try to keep this short. I'm looking for some advice. I was raised in a Christian home (Baptist) and have always been a very "spiritual/religious" person. I've been taught you can have a personal relationship with Jesus and I have relied on that for most of my life.....praying for peace, wisdom, etc etc

Over the past 10 years my husband and I have studied and have questioned a lot of what Christianity does, mainly the holidays that are so grounded in pagan practice....seems like an oxymoron to not attend church so our children aren't around something we believe is pagan?!

This past year we have researched even more and are now at the point where we are questioning the validity of the New Testament and find ourselves not believing that Jesus was the Messiah. Now I feel like I'm in a really weird place....we have reached out to some synagogues but they aren't very welcoming at all. I am not even sure that converting to Judaism is something we would want to do. However I am not happy being a "noahide". It seems like if you're not born Jewish you're just sort of in the middle somewhere.

Now I am just feeling so lost where I am not sure where I would even fit in with my beliefs.

I hope none of my questions are offensive to anyone...just hoping someone else may have been in the same situation and can offer me some guidance.

Jehovah's witnesses believe the holidays celebrated by most "Christian" churches are of pagan origin and displeasing to God and Christ. They firmly believe Jesus is the Messiah. May I ask what caused your doubts about this?

 

[buddhist]

I'll try to keep this short. I'm looking for some advice. I was raised in a Christian home (Baptist) and have always been a very "spiritual/religious" person. I've been taught you can have a personal relationship with Jesus and I have relied on that for most of my life.....praying for peace, wisdom, etc etc

Over the past 10 years my husband and I have studied and have questioned a lot of what Christianity does, mainly the holidays that are so grounded in pagan practice....seems like an oxymoron to not attend church so our children aren't around something we believe is pagan?!

This past year we have researched even more and are now at the point where we are questioning the validity of the New Testament and find ourselves not believing that Jesus was the Messiah. Now I feel like I'm in a really weird place....we have reached out to some synagogues but they aren't very welcoming at all. I am not even sure that converting to Judaism is something we would want to do. However I am not happy being a "noahide". It seems like if you're not born Jewish you're just sort of in the middle somewhere.

Now I am just feeling so lost where I am not sure where I would even fit in with my beliefs.

I hope none of my questions are offensive to anyone...just hoping someone else may have been in the same situation and can offer me some guidance.

I was exactly where you were. I was raised Christian, mainly Baptist. Eventually left it after I read about the holidays and biblical holidays. Eventually ended up in Messianic Judaism, and after much more study, my wife and I ended up leaving the Abrahamic sphere altogether. I decided I could no longer have "blind faith" in things I could not prove for myself (e.g. *any* of the biblical stories, etc.).

After much study of dozens of religions and philosophies over a period of years, I made a conscious choice for early Buddhism (with its core doctrine being "know for myself"), which is where I am & more than content now for the last ~5 years.

 

[ANEJIP]

Jehovah's witnesses believe the holidays celebrated by most "Christian" churches are of pagan origin and displeasing to God and Christ. They firmly believe Jesus is the Messiah. May I ask what caused your doubts about this?

There are several reasons for not believing in Jesus. The main reason is that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophesies. It is very complicated to explain, but you can research the following sites: http://jewsforjudaism.org https://outreachjudaism.org. they provide plenty of reasons for why Jesus did not fulfill the prophets; in addition to why a blood sacrifice is not necessary for atonement. Second is that most of the New testament can not be trusted due to revisions and lack of knowing what the original letters say (https://www.youtube.com/user/bartdehrman). With more research on the roman beliefs of the time you can see how Jesus evolved if you read the New Testament in chronological order. Mark, Matthew, Luke and John. When you read mark keep in mind that chapter 16 originally ended at verse 9, which is his resurrection and appearing to tell his disciples to tell the world, plus use snakes and poison and such (your bible will have an asterisk at the bottom saying so if you don't believe me). Mark existed 20-40 years before matthew and luke, one would think that a virgin birth and being resurrected would be important to tell people, especially if Paul says without the resurrection our faith is in vain 1 Cor. 15:14. Then John comes around an additional 20-40 years later and mentions by the way Jesus was the word that existed before creation.

My main point is not to turn you or anyone from Jesus though. I went to a Christian college and took several classes on defending my belief; therefore, you can see my past 30 years has been revolving around a certain world view, which has been utterly crushed. I really feel lost and not sure where to go from hear. I can't really tell someone how they ought to believe since I myself am at a road block. I just need to know the truth.

 

[BSM1]

There are several reasons for not believing in Jesus. The main reason is that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophesies. It is very complicated to explain, but you can research the following sites: http://jewsforjudaism.org https://outreachjudaism.org. they provide plenty of reasons for why Jesus did not fulfill the prophets; in addition to why a blood sacrifice is not necessary for atonement. Second is that most of the New testament can not be trusted due to revisions and lack of knowing what the original letters say (https://www.youtube.com/user/bartdehrman). With more research on the roman beliefs of the time you can see how Jesus evolved if you read the New Testament in chronological order. Mark, Matthew, Luke and John. When you read mark keep in mind that chapter 16 originally ended at verse 9, which is his resurrection and appearing to tell his disciples to tell the world, plus use snakes and poison and such (your bible will have an asterisk at the bottom saying so if you don't believe me). Mark existed 20-40 years before matthew and luke, one would think that a virgin birth and being resurrected would be important to tell people, especially if Paul says without the resurrection our faith is in vain 1 Cor. 15:14. Then John comes around an additional 20-40 years later and mentions by the way Jesus was the word that existed before creation.

My main point is not to turn you or anyone from Jesus though. I went to a Christian college and took several classes on defending my belief; therefore, you can see my past 30 years has been revolving around a certain world view, which has been utterly crushed. I really feel lost and not sure where to go from hear. I can't really tell someone how they ought to believe since I myself am at a road block. I just need to know the truth.

Everyone has to find their own truth. Never be afraid to search for and embrace yours.

 

[George-ananda]

..just hoping someone else may have been in the same situation and can offer me some guidance.

What's wrong with Jesus? And a more liberal Christian religion?

Forget the literal term 'Messiah' as it means who knows what in the modern world.

My thought is Judaism is a step backwards for you. If you got issues with the New Testament, the Old Testament will have some larger issues.

Just my thoughts for your consideration.

 

[ANEJIP]

What's wrong with Jesus? And a more liberal Christian religion?

Forget the literal term 'Messiah' as it means who knows what in the modern world.

My thought is Judaism is a step backwards for you. If you got issues with the New Testament, the Old Testament will have some larger issues.

Just my thoughts for your consideration.

Read my response above in regards to Jesus!

 

[HarihOm]

Namaste

It is quite usual to question things more deeply. Most of the external form of religion is just conventions made by man and manipulated by man and thus the show goes one. Try to go a little deeper than mere conventions and externals, keep what treasure you found and cultivate that, that should be enough to reflect and explore within your experience.

 

[George-ananda]

Read my response above in regards to Jesus!

I did and I'll stick with my point; Forget the literal term 'Messiah' as it means who knows what in the modern world. I think you are getting to hung up on the Old Testament complicated stuff.

My school of thought is that this is all about living a life of brotherly love (as Jesus taught), and that heaven is not about beliefs but about love and peace. It does not matter really what religion you belong to, so choose the one to which you feel the most connection in your heart.

 

[ANEJIP]

Judaism makes a good point in believing that Christians are committing Idolatry by believing Jesus is God.....I am not necessarily saying that I don't believe Jesus ever existed....but if I believe that he is not the son of God and not the messiah then Christianity doesn't really work. I am not willing to believe in Jesus just because I like him. I want to find the truth.....or at least do the best I can to.

I find the Hebrew Bible to be very straight forward and the NT to be quite contradictory. Think about how Paul teaches the law is a curse but yet in the Hebrew Bible it's said that the law is sweeter than honey and more precious than gold. Those to me seem like completely different representations which is why (to my knowledge) jews would definitely not accept those teachings since they use the Hebrew Bible as the guide, if it contradicts they don't accept it.

 

[viole]

I'll try to keep this short. I'm looking for some advice. I was raised in a Christian home (Baptist) and have always been a very "spiritual/religious" person. I've been taught you can have a personal relationship with Jesus and I have relied on that for most of my life.....praying for peace, wisdom, etc etc

Over the past 10 years my husband and I have studied and have questioned a lot of what Christianity does, mainly the holidays that are so grounded in pagan practice....seems like an oxymoron to not attend church so our children aren't around something we believe is pagan?!

This past year we have researched even more and are now at the point where we are questioning the validity of the New Testament and find ourselves not believing that Jesus was the Messiah. Now I feel like I'm in a really weird place....we have reached out to some synagogues but they aren't very welcoming at all. I am not even sure that converting to Judaism is something we would want to do. However I am not happy being a "noahide". It seems like if you're not born Jewish you're just sort of in the middle somewhere.

Now I am just feeling so lost where I am not sure where I would even fit in with my beliefs.

I hope none of my questions are offensive to anyone...just hoping someone else may have been in the same situation and can offer me some guidance.

When you have problems finding a way to square things under a basic premise assumed to be true, do like Einstein. Negate the premise. And everything will become crystal clear.

Ciao

- viole

 

[rusra02]

There are several reasons for not believing in Jesus. The main reason is that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophesies. It is very complicated to explain, but you can research the following sites: http://jewsforjudaism.org https://outreachjudaism.org. they provide plenty of reasons for why Jesus did not fulfill the prophets; in addition to why a blood sacrifice is not necessary for atonement. Second is that most of the New testament can not be trusted due to revisions and lack of knowing what the original letters say (https://www.youtube.com/user/bartdehrman). With more research on the roman beliefs of the time you can see how Jesus evolved if you read the New Testament in chronological order. Mark, Matthew, Luke and John. When you read mark keep in mind that chapter 16 originally ended at verse 9, which is his resurrection and appearing to tell his disciples to tell the world, plus use snakes and poison and such (your bible will have an asterisk at the bottom saying so if you don't believe me). Mark existed 20-40 years before matthew and luke, one would think that a virgin birth and being resurrected would be important to tell people, especially if Paul says without the resurrection our faith is in vain 1 Cor. 15:14. Then John comes around an additional 20-40 years later and mentions by the way Jesus was the word that existed before creation.

My main point is not to turn you or anyone from Jesus though. I went to a Christian college and took several classes on defending my belief; therefore, you can see my past 30 years has been revolving around a certain world view, which has been utterly crushed. I really feel lost and not sure where to go from hear. I can't really tell someone how they ought to believe since I myself am at a road block. I just need to know the truth.

I would not expect to get unbiased, accurate information about Jesus Christ from those who rejected him and had him killed. Some of my reasons for believing Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah are:

*IMO, He did fulfill numerous prophesies. One outstanding prophesy about the Messiah is Daniel's at Daniel 9:24-27, that pinpoints the exact year for the Messiah's coming, and his death.
* I believe there is no valid reason to doubt the historicity of the gospel accounts. The fact that John includes details omitted by the other gospel writers proves to me the four gospels complement each other in presenting a clear history of Jesus ministry. Each gospel contains events omitted from the others.
* Jesus life, ministry, miracles, and sacrificial death, and his influence on history, are powerful evidence to me that Jesus was and is the Messiah.
* Jesus many prophecies have seen fulfillment, some in the 1st century and many in our own day.
* Jesus teachings are far superior, to me at least, than any others, and certainly superior to the legalistic and confusing doctrines common to Judaism.
The history of the first century Christian congregation is evidence his followers firmly believed Jesus was the Messiah. They staked their lives on it, and willingly suffered death rather than renounce their faith in Jesus. Often it was the Jewish religious leaders that mercilessly persecuted true Christians, as they had Jesus himself. I believe that today the vast majority of professed "Christians" are not really following Christ, a fact Jesus himself acknowledged in his sermon given on the mountain. (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[ANEJIP]

Those verses of Daniel are tricky. There are several translations that to not compress the two separate periods into one. The 1611 for instance is "seven weeks; and threescore and two weeks" but in 1885 they changed the translation and removed the semi-colon combining the times into one period of 483 years. The original Hebrew had an "etnachta" which is the equivalent of a semi-colon. So the fact that was removed makes that verse mean something entirely different. Until 1885 KJV correctly separated the two.

It is clear that Gabriel was speaking of two different anointed people. Cyrus, the first anointed ruler, arose 49 years after the destruction of the first temple, and a second who was removed after a subsequent four hundred and thirty four years (the high priest). The prophet Isaiah specifically identified Cyrus as God's "anointed," who would command the Jews to return to the land of Israel in order to build the second temple. (Isaiah 44:28-45) (Ezra 1:1-5)

You have to ask yourself why don't Jews accept Jesus? God promised them a messiah, I would think they would be the first to accept him?!

To me it seems that Jesus wasn't teaching he was God in the flesh, that it was something that evolved over time after his death if you read the NT in chronological order.

Of course, I'm still trying to figure all this out but, it seems all the verses I have been taught are a prophesy of Jesus don't seem to hold up when read in complete context and compared to the Hebrew writings.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I would not expect to get unbiased, accurate information about Jesus Christ from those who rejected him and had him killed.

Romans?

* Jesus life, ministry, miracles, and sacrificial death, and his influence on history, are powerful evidence to me that Jesus was and is the Messiah.

So you feel that way for every single person who's ever had a significant legacy in history? Lots of famous people, even religious founders, predate Jesus by a large margin and still have followers. It's like bragging that you finally turned 18 in a room filled with 100-year-olds. It might be a special claim for YOU, but relative to the others, not so much.

* Jesus teachings are far superior, to me at least, than any others, and certainly superior to the legalistic and confusing doctrines common to Judaism.

Jesus influenced people so much they became PRECISELY what he argued against: legalistic, greedy, arrogant, etc.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Over the past 10 years my husband and I have studied and have questioned a lot of what Christianity does, mainly the holidays that are so grounded in pagan practice....seems like an oxymoron to not attend church so our children aren't around something we believe is pagan?!

What is the problem with holidays? I celebrate most holidays, and I don't build alters and worship gods on those days. On my kids birthdays, I celebrate the gift that God gave me. On Easter, I by candy and we do eggs and such, I build no alters and worship no gods, it's nothing religious to me. Christmas and Thanksgiving, the same way.

 

[ANEJIP]

What is the problem with holidays? I celebrate most holidays, and I don't build alters and worship gods on those days. On my kids birthdays, I celebrate the gift that God gave me. On Easter, I by candy and we do eggs and such, I build no alters and worship no gods, it's nothing religious to me. Christmas and Thanksgiving, the same way.

The Bible is pretty clear about sanctifying God's name and not associating it with pagan practices. Christmas and Easter are heavily influenced by pagan celebrations. Just google it.

However, the whole point of this thread is to figure out where to go after one realizes that Christianity if faulty. If you are a Christian, you really can't help me since we have differing views on religion; therefore, I respectfully ask those not to give any advice unless you have converted out of Christianity.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I believe you can convert out of an "official" Christian denomination, but it's impossible to convert out of the Way (Truth, Peace, Love, etc). Why not just be you? God doesn't require a group membership card to get into heaven, after all.

 

[viole]

However, the whole point of this thread is to figure out where to go after one realizes that Christianity if faulty. If you are a Christian, you really can't help me since we have differing views on religion; therefore, I respectfully ask those not to give any advice unless you have converted out of Christianity.

Why do you need to go somewhere? Maybe there is no somewhere.

Ciao

- viole