Where do non christians go after they die?

[ChristineES]

Hey, it's your book, not mine, and if you feel fine picking and choosing which passages to believe and which can be ignored, okay, but as it stands Bible-wise hell and its lake of fire seem to be quite eternal.

I am NOT picking and choosing anything. And you're right, it's our book. The lake of fire is in Revelation and all of Revelation is symbolic and Christians have known this for quite a long time. A lot of the Bible is symbolic. First Christians are criticized for taking it literally and then we are criticized for not taking it literally when someone wants us to.

 

[Pegg]

According to the bible, do non Christians (and my definition of a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior) go to heaven? Where do they go after they die? If you can, please include scripture.

Ecclesiaties says it all:

Eccl 3:18 I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust

we all return to dust, and wait.

 

[Blackdog22]

If you're going to ridicule my post, at least have the integrity do so to my face.

If, however, you weren't ridiculing my comments, then pay no heed to this post, and God bless you.

I wasn't ridiculing your post, it was Christines. However you are right, I should post directly to her, but I attempted to post in a way that responded to both her and Skywim, perhaps not in the best way.

The second part of my post was directed towards Christine and the first was directed at Skywim.

edit: I wanted to reword. I wasn't meaning to ridicule anyone, I was being sarcastic in a playful way. I like Christine and think she is a genuinely nice person.

 

[Blackdog22]

I am NOT picking and choosing anything. And you're right, it's our book. The lake of fire is in Revelation and all of Revelation is symbolic and Christians have known this for quite a long time. A lot of the Bible is symbolic. First Christians are criticized for taking it literally and then we are criticized for not taking it literally when someone wants us to.

Its not the literal or symbolic I have a problem with. The verses themselves do not paint a pretty picture. If I were to come up to you and tell you, " I am going to make you wish you were never born."

I may not mean that literally, it maybe symbolic, but any rational person can agree on one thing. What I just said in no way was a positive for you, it was evil, it was meant to scare you. This is the problem with those verses. They let us know that people who do not follow Jesus will have a very bad time. They do not indicate they will have a peaceful rest in the grave at all. If you have a way of interpreting them to indicate that I will be in peace once I die then please feel free to do so.

 

[Skwim]

I am NOT picking and choosing anything. And you're right, it's our book. The lake of fire is in Revelation and all of Revelation is symbolic and Christians have known this for quite a long time. A lot of the Bible is symbolic. First Christians are criticized for taking it literally and then we are criticized for not taking it literally when someone wants us to.

Ain't just Revelation

Matthew 25:41 (ESV)

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
​

 

[BruceDLimber]

We ALL go on to the Next Life (regardless of religion); and our initial status there is a function of whether--and how well--we've acquired the spiritual attributes which it is our task to attain here and now!

But that said, God, in His infinite Love and Mercy for us, assists every one of us eventually to draw spiritually near to Him (the definition of Heaven).

I quote:

"It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice; for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have the power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God.... Therefore in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness, and receive light through entreaties and supplications.

"Both before and after putting off this material form, there is progress in perfection, but not in state.... There is no other being higher than a perfect man. But man when he has reached this state can still make progress in perfections but not in state, because there is no state higher than that of a perfect man to which he can transfer himself. He only progresses in the state of humanity, for the human perfections are infinite. Thus however learned a man may be, we can imagine one more learned.

"Hence, as the perfections of humanity are endless, man can also make progress in perfections after leaving this world."
―Some Answered Questions, pp. 273-274.

Best!

Bruce

 

[chinu]

According to the bible, do non Christians (and my definition of a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior) go to heaven? Where do they go after they die? If you can, please include scripture.[/quote]And my question is; really, are they sure about where they are going after death ?

 

[ChristineES]

Ain't just Revelation

Matthew 25:41 (ESV)

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
​

Well, as I said, fire in the OT was a symbol for purification. We're going around and around with this one. Suffice it to say that the interpretation can be literal but I tend to believe it more symbolic as Jesus was speaking a parable, after all, in this case.
My belief is my belief- I could keep debating it (I usually have this specific debate with other Christians, this is the first time with a non-Christian) or I could just stop now. I am a stubborn woman and it takes a lot to change my mind (May as well admit it).

 

[Shiranui117]

I wasn't ridiculing your post, it was Christines. However you are right, I should post directly to her, but I attempted to post in a way that responded to both her and Skywim, perhaps not in the best way.

The second part of my post was directed towards Christine and the first was directed at Skywim.

edit: I wanted to reword. I wasn't meaning to ridicule anyone, I was being sarcastic in a playful way. I like Christine and think she is a genuinely nice person.

Alright, my apologies for any ill will that I may have caused by jumping to conclusions. God bless!

 

[ChristineES]

Its not the literal or symbolic I have a problem with. The verses themselves do not paint a pretty picture. If I were to come up to you and tell you, " I am going to make you wish you were never born."

I may not mean that literally, it maybe symbolic, but any rational person can agree on one thing. What I just said in no way was a positive for you, it was evil, it was meant to scare you. This is the problem with those verses. They let us know that people who do not follow Jesus will have a very bad time. They do not indicate they will have a peaceful rest in the grave at all. If you have a way of interpreting them to indicate that I will be in peace once I die then please feel free to do so.

I think we need to keep in mind that who Jesus was teaching- He was teaching people who already believed in God- Jesus wasn't a Christian, He was a Jew and His disciples were all Jews outside of a few Roman soldiers.
If a person follows God, he or she must behave as if they do. The people who was talking about (The goats) were the self-righteous and holier than thou. That is if you put the whole thing in context with all of Matthew.

Edited to add: I think we all know from experience that you can't be nice and sweet to the self-righteous followers of any faith of Abraham. Sometimes you have to be a little bit harsh.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I remember when this Christian guy came up to me on the street to talk to me about Jesus and I'm usually really friendly so I'm like "hhhheeeeyyyy" and explained that I don't believe in God. He told me that if I don't accept Jesus then I will go to hell and he told me to think of the my worst fear and that's what's going to happen to me in hell :sad4:
What a meanie!

Anyway different Christians have different opinions on this subject much like the bible.

 

[Reverend Richard]

I remember when this Christian guy came up to me on the street to talk to me about Jesus and I'm usually really friendly so I'm like "hhhheeeeyyyy" and explained that I don't believe in God. He told me that if I don't accept Jesus then I will go to hell and he told me to think of the my worst fear and that's what's going to happen to me in hell :sad4:
What a meanie!

when the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world looks a lot like a nail...

Anyway different Christians have different opinions on this subject much like the bible.

True, some are very accepting.

 

[ChristineES]

I remember when this Christian guy came up to me on the street to talk to me about Jesus and I'm usually really friendly so I'm like "hhhheeeeyyyy" and explained that I don't believe in God. He told me that if I don't accept Jesus then I will go to hell and he told me to think of the my worst fear and that's what's going to happen to me in hell :sad4:
What a meanie!

Anyway different Christians have different opinions on this subject much like the bible.

It is my considered opinion that preachers who say such things really shouldn't- even if it is true because he will lose more people than he will reach. As I said, Jesus wasn't speaking to non-believers in God. Jesus didn't speak the same way to what they called "sinners" in His times, He was harsher with the self-righteous types. Something I've noticed.

 

[Breathe]

[...] their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:15 ESV
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

"which is the second death". As in, death.

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).1

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46)

"And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).

"Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 7).

Eternal punishment: being denied an afterlife.
Eternal destruction: kind of obvious; second death.
Eternal fire: Same as lake of fire; second death.

^This is actually a possibility. From my understanding, it is possible to experience God's love and Presence as pain for a while, until our sins are burned away and there is no more separation in our relationship with Him. It could even be possible that no one suffers forever in the eternal fire of His love; rejecting and hating God forever seems a little improbable, does it not?

I'd read that EO's "Hell" is actually being surrounded by God's Divine Love, and it's the shame and separation of our sins that make it Hell, but wasn't sure how accurate it was (no EOs near me ). I like the idea coupled with it being a purifying fire, turning the guilt into acceptance so one can bask in God's Divine Love.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

He was quite young as well only 18-21 and he said it really casually, like "yeah so you're going to suffer in hell, come to our church this evening, there will be food." I found it quite funny.
I tend to attract people with problems anyway... Sometimes it's a Christian who tells me Jesus literally speaks to them, sometimes it's a priestess of a cult that worships aliens and sometimes it's a crackhead with brown teeth who wants to date me.

 

[ChristineES]

He was quite young as well only 18-21 and he said it really casually, like "yeah so you're going to suffer in hell, come to our church this evening, there will be food." I found it quite funny.
I tend to attract people with problems anyway... Sometimes it's a Christian who tells me Jesus literally speaks to them, sometimes it's a priestess of a cult that worships aliens and sometimes it's a crackhead with brown teeth who wants to date me.

I don't run into those types very often- they hand out pamphlets of people being in hell and all that. I have found them stuffed between the seats of the city bus. The Christians and other religious folks I see are usually collecting money for the homeless or for Father Joe (a priest in our area who helps the homeless, he is semi-retired now and a Sister took his place).

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I don't run into those types very often- they hand out pamphlets of people being in hell and all that. I have found them stuffed between the seats of the city bus. The Christians and other religious folks I see are usually collecting money for the homeless or for Father Joe (a priest in our area who helps the homeless, he is semi-retired now and a Sister took his place).

I'm outside a lot that's the problem

 

[Skwim]

Well, as I said, fire in the OT was a symbol for purification. We're going around and around with this one. Suffice it to say that the interpretation can be literal but I tend to believe it more symbolic as Jesus was speaking a parable, after all, in this case.
My belief is my belief- I could keep debating it (I usually have this specific debate with other Christians, this is the first time with a non-Christian) or I could just stop now. I am a stubborn woman and it takes a lot to change my mind (May as well admit it).

 

[Jainarayan]

Frank died somewhat before his time in a motorcycle accident, and found himself in Hell.

He sat in a hot ante-room surrounded by swirling sulphurous gases as he gloomily awaited his fate. He'd heard all the jokes. Being forced to listen to a continuous Barry Manilow tape. The electrodes on the goolies. It made him shiver.

Finally Satan arrived, detected Frank's demeanour and said, "Hey, why so glum? Hell's not so bad!?"

Frank replied, "Well, I'm a bit depressed because I didn't really expect to be here. I know I've played up a bit, and led an arguably wasted life but I didn't think I'd been an evil person."

The horny devil grinned. "Look, you wouldn't be happy in Heaven, it's a dreadful place. Full of do-gooders with those ghastly beatific smiles, always telling you to have a nice day and singing dreary hymns. It's the tweed jacket and twin-set mob. The food's crap too. God tells me he's jealous because in Heaven he gets all the boring self-righteous creeps who've been bothering him all their lives asking for stuff. This is the place for a bloke like you.

For instance, take Mondays. Do you like a drink at all?"
"Well, people always told me I drank too much."

"You're gonna love Mondays. We have a huge ****-up. Unlimited quantities of everything. There's 43 different beers from around the world, the best wines, mostly from Australia, full range of spirits, liqueurs of every virulent hue. We stuff ourselves with good pizza and chocolate mud cake, and you even get a case of beer to take back to your room for a nightcap. It's a blast. Everyone gets ****-faced and we laugh, and sing and dance all day. Tell me, do you smoke?"

"Two packets a day since I was 15."

"Well you're going to love Tuesdays. It's our big el smoko day. Australian, English, American, French, Turkish, we've got the lot. Foot-long Cuban cigars, hookahs, you name it, every taste is catered for, and you can't get cancer and die 'cos you're already dead, OK?"

Frank is starting to brighten up a bit, and asks, "So what about Wednesdays?"

"Ah, well Wednesday is my personal favourite. Do you like a flutter? Good, you are just going to love Wednesdays - Wednesday is gambling day. We have everything down here. Horses, dogs, boxing organized by Don King, slot machines, roulette, baccarat, poker, keno, two-up, two flies on the wall, who's got the biggest dick; ****, we just gamble on everything! And there's normally plenty of grog and smokes left over from earlier in the week so it turns into the biggest party you've ever been to. And if you lose all your money it doesn't matter because we refill your wallet for next week. Some of our folks get up at 5 in the morning so they don't miss a minute! Now, did you ever do drugs?"

"I guess you could say I got into bad company, and, yes, I have smoked a bit and snorted a bit, you know, just the usual."

"In that case you will get a big, big buzz out of Thursdays. After such a huge Wednesday, a lot of the folks like to take it easy and get in touch with themselves. So we have the best grass, hash, coke, smack, opium, LSD, the works, from all around the world. And you can't get addicted and die 'cos you're already dead. Geddit? Hell is great! You will just love Thursdays!"

By now Frank's getting positively excited about his after-life and asks the question that's been bothering him. "So, what about sex?"

"Yes, sex, knew you'd be interested. Well, Friday is our huge, horny, rampant wild-sex-all-day day! Now, you are gay aren't you?"

"Uh yeah, I am. They said I'd wind up here".

"Ahh, then you're gonna love Fridays!"

 

[Pegg]

I'm outside a lot that's the problem

lol

you need to stay in more