Where do Proponents Of Intelligent Design Propose the Designer Came From?

[Milton Platt]

'NOW' is always in the future,
and never exists.
~
'mud

LOL......later is in the future now is in the current instant. Although I guess you could claim that because when someone says "I'll do it now", then they do it right after the said it, they did do it in the future, so point made.

 

[Etritonakin]

Have been thinking recently about a sort of "intelligence singularity".

From our perspective, it can seem that we are intelligences which are the direct result of the "physical" singularity known as the Big Bang.

I do not believe the Big Bang to be simple enough to be the very beginning of everything -and it seems to me that it must have been preceded by an intelligence capable of packaging and executing it.

Then I wondered why an intelligence could not have developed first -something which was the most simple state possible, then essentially ordered itself -became aware -then self-aware -began arranging and rearranging -before it could order something like a universe. (I'd imagine memory/recall/record-keeping would be a major step.)

Also -I have noticed some language in the bible which may suggest that Christ -though not a Son in the human sense -might have been God essentially reproducing by something similar to self-replication. It is said that the Word was in the beginning with God -but that the Father is in authority. Perhaps because The Father is the "original". It is also written that Christ is the "firstborn of many brethren" -though that may only refer to his experience as a human and his resurrection. Will have to look into it.

Hmmmmmmm......

 

[Milton Platt]

Have been thinking recently about a sort of "intelligence singularity".

From our perspective, it can seem that we are intelligences which are the direct result of the "physical" singularity known as the Big Bang.

The direct result of thebig bang was not intelligence. The direct result was an unimaginably hot expansion.

I do not believe the Big Bang to be simple enough to be the very beginning of everything -and it seems to me that it must have been preceded by an intelligence capable of packaging and executing it.

All matter and energy concentrated into a single point is as simple as you can get. There would not even be molecules or atoms. What do you mean "packaged"? That makes no sense.

Then I wondered why an intelligence could not have developed first -something which was the most simple state possible, then essentially ordered itself -became aware -then self-aware -began arranging and rearranging -before it could order something like a universe. (I'd imagine memory/recall/record-keeping would be a major step.)

Developed from what?

All experience we have had with intelligence indicates it derives from a complex living brain. That does not point to intelligence being "simple".

Also -I have noticed some language in the bible which may suggest that Christ -though not a Son in the human sense -might have been God essentially reproducing by something similar to self-replication. It is said that the Word was in the beginning with God -but that the Father is in authority. Perhaps because The Father is the "original". It is also written that Christ is the "firstborn of many brethren" -though that may only refer to his experience as a human and his resurrection. Will have to look into it.

One can cherry pick phrases from most any book to support all kinds of notions.


Hmmmmmmm......

 

[Dante Writer]

This is just a theory I am only mulling on!

The creator needed no creator as we think of it.

The energy that started the Universe as we know it has always existed.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed and all energy eventually returns to the source.

Scientific principle holds that positive and negative energy can not exist in the same place.

For each positive energy in the universe (planets etc) there is an equal negative energy.

The creator of this universe therefore is the natural disposition of positive and negative energy to reject each other the same as the ends of a magnet reject each other.

In this natural war of energy sources creation occurs. Bits of energy both positive and negative are flung off and energy becomes mass m=E/c2.

That is our planets and solar system and our earth including all living things.

As we die our energy is released (referred to as the spirit in religions) and returns eventually to the source (called God by religions).

Now if you want to take it a step further: Some religions believe our actions on earth are either positive or negative and refer to them as sins or blessings/works.

It is not unscientific to believe negative actions we commit result in a negative energy change in our body and vice versa for positive energy through blessings/works.

Therefore, if your life was spent committing negative actions (sins) you would have more negative energy than positive and you would return to the negative source of energy when you die and the opposite for positive energy and that explains the religious view of hell and heaven.

OK I have just explained the entire creation process and reason for our existence in a paragraph

 

[Milton Platt]

This is just a theory I am only mulling on!

The creator needed no creator as we think of it.

The energy that started the Universe as we know it has always existed.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed and all energy eventually returns to the source.

Scientific principle holds that positive and negative energy can not exist in the same place.

For each positive energy in the universe (planets etc) there is an equal negative energy.

The creator of this universe therefore is the natural disposition of positive and negative energy to reject each other the same as the ends of a magnet reject each other.

In this natural war of energy sources creation occurs. Bits of energy both positive and negative are flung off and energy becomes mass m=E/c2.

That is our planets and solar system and our earth including all living things.

As we die our energy is released (referred to as the spirit in religions) and returns eventually to the source (called God by religions).

Now if you want to take it a step further: Some religions believe our actions on earth are either positive or negative and refer to them as sins or blessings/works.

It is not unscientific to believe negative actions we commit result in a negative energy change in our body and vice versa for positive energy through blessings/works.

Therefore, if your life was spent committing negative actions (sins) you would have more negative energy than positive and you would return to the negative source of energy when you die and the opposite for positive energy and that explains the religious view of hell and heaven.

OK I have just explained the entire creation process and reason for our existence in a paragraph

This is not a theory, merely a series of assumptions with no real basis in fact. Labeling human actions as positive or negative is arbitrary and subjective, for one thing. The terms negative energy and positive energy as you use them here are unscientific in nature and there is no reason to suppose such things exist.

 

[Dante Writer]

This is not a theory, merely a series of assumptions with no real basis in fact. Labeling human actions as positive or negative is arbitrary and subjective, for one thing. The terms negative energy and positive energy as you use them here are unscientific in nature and there is no reason to suppose such things exist.

No real basis in fact?

"In the year 1988,Richard E. Slusher and Bernard Yurke tried an experiment where laser beams were passed through nonlinear optic materials. As a result, photons were produced. These photons alternately enhanced and suppressed the vacuum fluctuations. This created negative energy. In the year 1948, renowned physicist Hendrik B.G. Casimir introduced geometric boundaries into a space. He used two uncharged metal plates to change the vacuum fluctuations. The energy density was calculated to be negative between the two plates. This so-called squeezed vacuum state involves negative energy."

http://www.innovateus.net/science/what-negative-energy

"Labeling human actions as positive or negative is arbitrary and subjective"

Yet anyone that has a science background understands the human body produces energy.

"Everything we do is controlled and enabled by electrical signals running through our bodies. As we learned in intro physics, everything is made up of atoms, and atoms are made up of protons, neutrons and electrons. Protons have a positive charge, neutrons have a neutral charge, and electrons have a negative charge. When these charges are out of balance, an atom becomes either positively or negatively charged. The switch between one type of charge and the other allows electrons to flow from one atom to another. This flow of electrons, or a negative charge, is what we call electricity. Since our bodies are huge masses of atoms, we can generate electricity"

http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/nervous-system/human-body-make-electricity.htm

So thanks for your OPINION but science does support my theory!

 

[`mud]

hey Guys,
thanks for explaining de obviocity ...
or whatever !
~
'mud

 

[Etritonakin]

This is just a theory I am only mulling on!

The creator needed no creator as we think of it.

The energy that started the Universe as we know it has always existed.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed and all energy eventually returns to the source.

Scientific principle holds that positive and negative energy can not exist in the same place.

For each positive energy in the universe (planets etc) there is an equal negative energy.

The creator of this universe therefore is the natural disposition of positive and negative energy to reject each other the same as the ends of a magnet reject each other.

In this natural war of energy sources creation occurs. Bits of energy both positive and negative are flung off and energy becomes mass m=E/c2.

That is our planets and solar system and our earth including all living things.

As we die our energy is released (referred to as the spirit in religions) and returns eventually to the source (called God by religions).

Now if you want to take it a step further: Some religions believe our actions on earth are either positive or negative and refer to them as sins or blessings/works.

It is not unscientific to believe negative actions we commit result in a negative energy change in our body and vice versa for positive energy through blessings/works.

Therefore, if your life was spent committing negative actions (sins) you would have more negative energy than positive and you would return to the negative source of energy when you die and the opposite for positive energy and that explains the religious view of hell and heaven.

OK I have just explained the entire creation process and reason for our existence in a paragraph

If you think about it, creation is the act of intentionally causing an imbalance -or disturbing equilibrium -in order to manage or create balance or equilibrium in a new arrangement.

Creation can cause states/arrangements which might otherwise not exist. It is a manipulation of positive and negative by an intelligence which is essentially more than the sum of its parts due to its arrangement.

The creator would both be -and be composed of -the positive and negative, but would also be the self-aware manipulator and arranger of such.

God creating is essentially God rearranging that which he is.

Even though we, ourselves, are separate personalities due to arrangement, we are also part of the whole of God.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

 

[bobhikes]

If creaction is nessesary, who created the creator?

Many ID enthusiast claim that evolution is incomplete becuase it does not explain the origin of the first life (which is not evolution's purpose) and thus insist that it should have no scientific standing (using the same 'logic' one could say that Gravity is not true becuase we can not solidly identifiy it's source [though Gravitons are very likely, similar to how Abiogenesis is very likely]). I therfore ask these ID proponents as to where the "Designer" originates. Many Creactionist and ID proponents say that as a complex universe we need a complex being to design it. However if this is the case then why wouldn't an even more complex being be needed to make such a complex being?

Simply put the universe either always existed in some form or came from nothing. The creator is the form before the universe existed or sparked the first cause if you believe it came from nothing. Either is plausible and will never be testable.

 

[`mud]

How did a 'god' exist in the nothingness of the 'void' ?
How did this 'god' exist in the intensely 'hot' focused point of such.
Or with no motion, or distance, or inertia.....????
I find it all very testable !
~
'mud

 

[Milton Platt]

No real basis in fact?

"In the year 1988,Richard E. Slusher and Bernard Yurke tried an experiment where laser beams were passed through nonlinear optic materials. As a result, photons were produced. These photons alternately enhanced and suppressed the vacuum fluctuations. This created negative energy. In the year 1948, renowned physicist Hendrik B.G. Casimir introduced geometric boundaries into a space. He used two uncharged metal plates to change the vacuum fluctuations. The energy density was calculated to be negative between the two plates. This so-called squeezed vacuum state involves negative energy."

http://www.innovateus.net/science/what-negative-energy

"Labeling human actions as positive or negative is arbitrary and subjective"

Yet anyone that has a science background understands the human body produces energy.

"Everything we do is controlled and enabled by electrical signals running through our bodies. As we learned in intro physics, everything is made up of atoms, and atoms are made up of protons, neutrons and electrons. Protons have a positive charge, neutrons have a neutral charge, and electrons have a negative charge. When these charges are out of balance, an atom becomes either positively or negatively charged. The switch between one type of charge and the other allows electrons to flow from one atom to another. This flow of electrons, or a negative charge, is what we call electricity. Since our bodies are huge masses of atoms, we can generate electricity"

http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/nervous-system/human-body-make-electricity.htm

So thanks for your OPINION but science does support my theory!

Sorry, but nothing in the link supports the assertion that human ACTIONS are positive or negative.

 

[Dante Writer]

Sorry, but nothing in the link supports the assertion that human ACTIONS are positive or negative.

I Provided the link for positive and negative energy in the human body.

Energy creates human actions and negative energy is referred to as depression and human brain waves are electrochemical reactions passed through synapses.

IE. any action taken by a body affects electrochemical energy in the body and as the article clearly states electrical energy in the body does not stay in balance.

I extrapolated that to the religious belief of sin and blessings and I said it is a theory.

If you did not understand that it is not my problem.

 

[Milton Platt]

The real problem is you are borrowing the term negative energy from quantum physics where it is still very hypothetical and misapplying it in a different field. The term has nothing to do with positive and negative electrical charges. And again, i was calling into question your assertion of positive and negative actions. I did not mention energy.