Where do the Jews believe they are going...

[dybmh]

Where do the jews believe they are going when they die a physical death?

Hi Jonathon:

The simple answer is:

In Judaism, when any [person, animal, plant ] dies it returns to the source commonly called God.

 

[dybmh]

@ Everyone

"wide eyes"... I don't think it is intended to be considered literally...

Islam teaches that some of the most virtuous character traits are to be open, aware, and sincere. Also, going from memory, Allah and Islam is described as The Source of Illumination and the Light ( respectively ).

Someone with Wide Eyes represents a person who has good personal qualities and is able to appreciate the Light of God and its source.

hyperlink >>> islamqa.info - Description of al-hoor al-‘iyn in the Qur’aan and Sunnah

 

[Terry Sampson]

@ Everyone

"wide eyes"... I don't think it is intended to be considered literally...

Islam teaches that one of the most virtuous character traits is to be open, aware, and sincere. Also, going from memory, Allah and Islam is described as The Source of Illumination and the Light ( respectively ). Someone with Wide Eyes represents a person who has good personal qualities and is able to appreciate the Light of God and it's source.

So it's a metaphor... sheesh! I thought it was a "racist" term like "slant-eye". And here I was, just getting used to accepting the fact that I'm a wide-eyed cracker.

Thanks!.

P.S. So what are: "wide lips, and a symmetrical face, good hip-waist ratio (for women) etc." metaphors for?

 

[susanblange]

...when they die a physical death?

For most Christians, the possibilities for a hereafter is heaven or hell.

The Muslims think 72 virgins await them somewhere outside this physical world.

The Jews believe they are all going to Heaven. The Orthodox belive in a "purgatory" and you cannot spend more than a year there. I think this is because Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement comes once a year. All three Abrahamic faiths believe you have to be a member of their faith to go to Heaven. They are all in for a rude awakening. Only the righteous go to Heaven, and the wicked go to Hell. Right now it doesn't matter what religion you are. Ezekiel 13:22 applies to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Do most Christians really think they might go to hell after "god" died for their sins?

I may be misunderstanding your question to Jonathan. Are you asking if most Christians,

• Who believe:
  1. that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified, died, was buried, was raised from the dead, and subsequently ascended into heaven,
  2. that Jesus' merit was sufficient to discharge/cover/atone for the sins of anyone who turns to the Father because of Jesus,
• Still could go to hell in spite of believing (1) and (2)?

If that's your question, then your first mistake is asking Jonathan because his personal theology is most certainly not representative of "most Christians" and, IMHO, obstructs his ability to describe what most Christians think.

That said, it's appropriate for me to state that I am an "eclectic Christian" myself (meaning that I pick and choose what I believe from orthodox Christianity and non-standard sources), I am familiar (by fellowship with) Southern Baptists, Nazarenes, Pentecostals, Assembly of God, Lutherans, and Roman Catholics and their separate theologies, AND over the last several years I have studied the Orthodox Reformed Calvinists. Consequently, I could but won't speak for the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Orthodox, or the "Messianic" Jews. Bottom line: Christian theologies vary so greatly that "describing most Christians" is much like walking through a mine-field: do too much of it and you're going to get hurt.

If you treat Christian theology as a variable "X", the value of X can range from profoundly conservative to profoundly liberal.

I am fairly certain that the most conservative Christian view of salvation through Jesus, sin, and hell is that of the Orthodox Reformed Calvinists (who for the most part are Reformed Baptists or their theological cousins, the Orthodox Presbyterians. Those guys subscribe to TULIP (an acronym for the five "Points" of Calvinism):

• T for Total Depravity
• U for Unconditional Election
• L for Limited Atonement
• I for Irresistible Grace, and
• Preservation of the Saints..

According to the last point or principle, "preservation of the Saints", God preserves his people so that they can never be lost. In other words: "Once saved, always saved." Orthodox Reformed Calvinist Christians certainly do not constitute a majority of Christians.

At the other end of the scale are what I call "the Corks": they call themselves Christians but they are so reluctant to be grounded in anything permanent that they bob up and down on the water like floaters on a fishing line when a fish nibbles the bait.

Personally, as an eclectic Christian, my theology will seem to many to be closer to that of the Corks than the ORCC's. But I bend the knee and bow my head to Jesus of Nazareth and can recite the words of the Apostle's Creed with a clear conscience. On the other hand, at this time I believe that heaven awaits everyone. Of course, anyone who doesn’t want to be there will say that that is hell.

 

[dybmh]

P.S. So what are: "wide lips, and a symmetrical face, good hip-waist ratio (for women) etc." metaphors for?

Is this from scripture? Or just stuff you hear in the locker-room at the gym?

 

[sooda]

Is this from scripture? Or just stuff you hear in the locker-room at the gym?

They were talking cultural standards of beauty.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

...when they die a physical death?

For most Christians, the possibilities for a hereafter is heaven or hell.

The Muslims think 72 virgins await them somewhere outside this physical world.

I don't know of any Muslim who believes that. Maybe Daesh and other fringe groups?

 

[Terry Sampson]

Is this from scripture? Or just stuff you hear in the locker-room at the gym?

LOL!!! not unless this thread is a gym locker-room...

I got that from Wasp:

What we find attractive is biological - we feel sexual attraction toward people who have such an appearance that tells of good genes. Big eyes is one of these. So are wide lips and a symmetrical face, good hip-waist ratio (for women) etc.

I understood your previous comment on "wide-eyes" to be saying that "wide-eyes" is an Islamic metaphor. Having accepted that, I asked what wide lips, a symmetrical face, and a good hip-waist ration (for women) might be metaphors for.

 

[Terry Sampson]

I love reading threads. Its like reading a poem without the poem that is a description of the poem through the eyes of 72 virgins.

Initially, I thought your post, quoted above, was funny. Now, a number of posts later, I think your observation may be more astute than funny. Admittedly, the shift in my opinion may well be because, from what I can tell, there have been exchanges between folks whom I am not ignoring and folks whom I am ignoring, with the result that, from my perspective, this thread is almost surreal. I think only smoking a joint could increase this thread's entertainment value.

 

[David T]

Initially, I thought your post, quoted above, was funny. Now, a number of posts later, I think your observation may be more astute than funny. Admittedly, the shift in my opinion may well be because, from what I can tell, there have been exchanges between folks whom I am not ignoring and folks whom I am ignoring, with the result that, from my perspective, this thread is almost surreal. I think only smoking a joint could increase this thread's entertainment value.

Welcome to my world!!!! Breathing helps!!!! And long walks in nature btw!

 

[Terry Sampson]

The Jews believe

Okay, ... I give. Somewhere I read that the source for your theology is the Hebrew Bible (KJV Old Testament), that you've had an experience that led you to believe some things about yourself, and that you identify your "religion" as Jewish/New Age. So, my curiosity has gotten the best of me and moves me to ask: Are you Jewish by birth or Jewish by conversion?

 

[ChristineM]

The Muslims think 72 virgins await them somewhere outside this physical world.

72 perpetual virgins (houri)? Sheash, i could not think of a worse place to be than in the presence of 72 cackling, perpetual virgins all whispering secrets to their besties and laughing at stupidity.

 

[Augustus]

There are no 72 virgins in the Koran.. Don't you ever check your facts?

They do get "full breasted maidens of the same age" (78:33) and "Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, young male servants (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded" (52:24).

 

[sooda]

They do get "full breasted maidens of the same age" (78:33) and "Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, young male servants (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded" (52:24).

Yeah.. and they also have low hanging fruit and rivers of wine that never make you drunk.

 

[susanblange]

Okay, ... I give. Somewhere I read that the source for your theology is the Hebrew Bible (KJV Old Testament), that you've had an experience that led you to believe some things about yourself, and that you identify your "religion" as Jewish/New Age. So, my curiosity has gotten the best of me and moves me to ask: Are you Jewish by birth or Jewish by conversion?

I am not Jewish by birth. I converted about 36 years ago. I am Israeli, the tribe of Joseph. They were from the ten tribed northern kingdom called "the house of Israel". After the Assyrian captivity, they migrated to the north and west into the coastlands and isles. This is northwestern Europe, what used to be called "free Europe". The Messiah will be from the tribe of Joseph. Genesis 49:24. "...from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel".

 

[Shiranui117]

I am not Jewish by birth. I converted about 36 years ago. I am Israeli, the tribe of Joseph. They were from the ten tribed northern kingdom called "the house of Israel". After the Assyrian captivity, they migrated to the north and west into the coastlands and isles. This is northwestern Europe, what used to be called "free Europe". The Messiah will be from the tribe of Joseph. Genesis 49:24. "...from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel".

Are there genetics tests you can do for this, or how does one determine exactly what tribe one is descended from? What's the methodology for determining the tribes? Are there unique haplogroups or something that you can look at in a blood or genetic test?

 

[Rival]

Are there genetics tests you can do for this, or how does one determine exactly what tribe one is descended from? What's the methodology for determining the tribes? Are there unique haplogroups or something that you can look at in a blood or genetic test?

Pseudoscience.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Pseudoscience.

Although I heartily agree that any attempt to answer Shiranu's inquiry purporting to be an answer that relies on or incorporates DNA testing must be pseudoscience, I ask if your response goes so far as to dispute the ability of current DNA testing to estimate a test subject's Jewish ancestry?

 

[Rival]

Although I heartily agree that any attempt to answer Shiranu's inquiry purporting to be an answer that relies on or incorporates DNA testing must be pseudoscience, I ask if your response goes so far as to dispute the ability of current DNA testing to estimate a test subject's Jewish ancestry?

No, only trying to determine if one is from the lost tribes.