Where do you draw the line at adherence to OT laws vs what it says in the NT?

[Simplelogic]

Levites will be ministering in the future Messianic kingdom!

15But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD: 16They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge. Ezekiel 44: 15-16

 

[Desert Snake]

I have not seen verses in the Christian Scriptures that decry the Laws of the Mosaic Law Covenant. In fact, we read statements such as: "So the Law in itself is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good." (Romans 7:12) I believe the Mosaic Law covenant was replaced by a better covenant, and we are no longer under it's requirements. Still, we can learn much about God by studying this Law, and discerning the principles underpinning the Law. These righteous principles have not changed.

Irrelevant/ I was talking about the 'laws' laws. nevermind if it wasn't clear enough.

 

[Desert Snake]

@rusra02
Or your just obfuscating.

 

[Wharton]

There is no Mechezidek priesthood. Only the Levitical priesthood. Yeshua is like Melchezidek because he was a King and a Priest like Melchezidek. Nope the Levites will continue to serve the Messiah in the future kingdom.

A King, who is also a Priest, has never existed in Israel’s history. The kingdom and the priesthood were always separate. The kingdom was established forever in David’s descendants, and the priesthood was established in the descendants of Levi and Aaron forever as well.

And here are some of God’s promises to the Levitical priesthood.

“And you shall gird them with sashes, Aaron and his sons, and put the hats on them. The priesthood shall be theirs for a perpetual statute, So you shall consecrate Aaron and his sons.” Exodus 29:9

“You shall put the holy garments on Aaron, and anoint him and sanctify him, that he may minister to Me as priest. And you shall bring his sons and clothe them with tunics. You shall anoint them, as you anointed their father, that they may minister to Me as priests; for their anointing shall surely be and everlasting priesthood throughouttheir generations.” Exodus 40:13-15

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying; “Phinehas the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, has turned back My wrath from the children of Israel, because he was zealous with My zeal among them, so that I did not consume the children of Israel in My zeal. Therefore say, ‘Behold, I give to him My covenant of peace; and it shall be to him and his descendants after him a covenant of an everlasting priesthood, because he was zealous for his God, and made atonement for the children of Israel .’” Numbers 25;10-13

God promised the Messiah would be both king and priest like Melchizedek in Psalm 110:4. God also spoke through other prophets on numerous occasions that He would indeed bring both offices into one in the Messiah.

“Behold, the days are coming”, says the Lord, “that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah; In those days and at that time I will cause to grow up to David a Branchof righteousness; He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In those days Judah will be saved, andJerusalem will dwell safely. And this is the name by which she will be called; ‘THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS’. For thus says the Lord; David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.” Jeremiah 33:14-18

“Behold, the man whose name is the BRANCH! From his place he shall branch out, and he shall build the temple of the Lord; Yes, he shall build the temple of the Lord. He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on his throne; So he shall be a priest on his throne, and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” (both offices) Zechariah 6:12-13

“Then it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the New Moons, the Sabbaths, and at all the appointed seasons of the house of Israel. He shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel .” Ezekiel 45:17

God had said the Levites had and “everlasting” priesthood. The only way God could fulfill these promises He made to David and the Levites is if the Messiah was from both tribes. Yeshua just so happens to be descendant of both David and Levi!

Melchezidek was both king and high priest and offered bread and wine. Jesus is both king and high priest and offered bead and wine.

Hebrews 6:19-20New International Version (NIV)
19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

 

[rusra02]

Paul is blunt in Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Cor. 3:11-17, Romans 7:1-3 et seq, and Galatians 3:19 et seq. The Law is "abolished," "done away with," "nailed to a tree," "has faded away,' and was "only ordained by angels...who are no gods." If we were to cite Paul's condemnations of the Law in one string, the point is self-evident that Paul abrogated the Law for everyone. See Eph. 2:15 ("setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations"); Col. 2:14 ("having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;") 2 Cor. 3:14 ("old covenant"); Gal. 5:1 ("yoke of bondage"); Rom. 10:4 ("Christ is the end of the law"); 2 Cor. 3:7 ("law of death"); Gal. 5:1 ("entangles"); Col. 2:14-17 ("a shadow"); Rom. 3:27 ("law of works"); Rom. 4:15 ("works wrath"); 2 Cor. 3:9(ministration of condemnation); Gal. 2:16 ("cannot justify"); Gal. 3:21 (cannot give life); Col. 2:14 ("wiped out" exaleipsas); Gal. 3:19, 4:8-9 ("given by angels...who are no gods [and are] weak and beggarly celestial beings/elements").

The Scriptures you cite are arguments that the Mosaic Law no longer applies to Christians, but had been replaced with something far better, the ransom sacrifice of God's Son. But in no way was the inspired apostle Paul saying the Law was bad. The Law showed up the Jews, and by extension, all persons as sinners, unable to keep God's Law perfectly. In that sense, " the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith." (Galatians 3:24)

 

[Simplelogic]

The Scriptures you cite are arguments that the Mosaic Law no longer applies to Christians, but had been replaced with something far better, the ransom sacrifice of God's Son. But in no way was the inspired apostle Paul saying the Law was bad. The Law showed up the Jews, and by extension, all persons as sinners, unable to keep God's Law perfectly. In that sense, " the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith." (Galatians 3:24)

except that's not what God says. Nor Jesus.

 

[bretzter]

there are mosaic laws which we must adhere to and the NT states this. Gods laws regarding right and wrong have not changed hence some mosaic laws will always be relevant.

But really its up to christians to apply those laws in a broader application by finding the principle behind the law because those mosaic laws are set to the specific circumstances of the people who lived 3,000 years ago... for that reason we need to know the underlying principle of a mosaic law in order to apply it today

But what has most certainly changed is the way we approach God. The Isrealites were required 'by law' to approach God through the mosaic law....this included more then just living by Gods standards of right and wrong....it required offering sacrifices, supporting the temple, participating in the festivals, abiding by the dress code etc etc
The fact is, nobody (not even the jews) can completely fulfill all the requirements of the mosaic law today....nor do they fufill its requirements. And according to the law, if you fail to do even just one commandment, you are a transgressor of them all.

Deuteronomy 27:26
“‘Cursed is the one who will not uphold the words of this Law by carrying them out.’+ (And all the people will say, ‘Amen!’)

To hang onto the mosaic law at a time when it cannot be carried out leads to being cursed. Who wants that?

So this is why we must distinguish between what God requires of us, and where the mosaic law fits into that picture. Obviously not all of the mosaic law is going to fit in which is why christians are called up on to uphold Gods righteousness...this would include all his righteous morals and standards, some of which are expressed in the mosaic law.

I´m a Judeo-Christian,so I guess that makes me a believer in both the OT and NT.
After all Jesus didn´t come to Earth to abolish the law/Mosaic,but to fulfill it.
And as far as the 10 commandments go,he did nothing but simplify them.
As when he talked to the masses in parables in order that he could be understood
by the lesser educated if you will.
Ten are now two,in other words,Love your God,and Love your neighbor as yourself.
The 1st of the commandments are the greatest and the 2nd pertaining to human
relationships.
For example murder,adultery,lying,envy/coveteousness,etc.would not be considered
loving your neighbor.
But instead of breaking it down one by one,he summed its entirety up in one sentence.

 

[Simplelogic]

Here is the problem with this entire argument.

People are claiming that if one goes back to following the "OT" then they have to be a "pick and choose" type believer. The logic being that since the WHOLE law of Moses can't currently be kept it is now futile to try to keep.

Let me first say that Christians are already "pick and choose" believers when it comes to the "OT". Can someone tell me why Christians tithe? Is it part of the 10 commandments? No! Yet many Christians believe this to be a "Christian tenant". Why?

I keep hearing people quote the 10 commands, stating that Christians are only meant to follow these. Yet they don't keep Sabbath, which is one of those 10. What is going on here?

 

[rusra02]

except that's not what God says. Nor Jesus.

Which part?

 

[Simplelogic]

The Law showed up the Jews, and by extension, all persons as sinners, unable to keep God's Law perfectly. In that sense, " the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith." (Galatians 3:24)

This is what I am challenging. The Torah does not say this. The law was given because God loves us and wants us to be whole. When we follow it we are. Only Paul makes the case that YHVH's law was "too difficult" for man. Here is what God says about His law:

24And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 25And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. Deut 6: 24-25

 

[Simplelogic]

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Not all who claim Jesus to be Lord will enter the kingdom! Only he who DOES the will of the Father!

22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ MATT 7: 21-23

The word for "lawlessness" is "anomia" which literally means LAW NEGATION. Exactly what Paul preached!

 

[BilliardsBall]

In the NT, we have various verses that literally decry the laws of the OT, the Torah laws. If you adhere to the OT laws,//which ones do you adhere to, do you think they are exempt from the NT criticism// how do you square this with the statements that directly oppose this sort of thinking? I tend to never get 'real' answers to questions like this. Succinct and honest answers would be appreciated, such as 'I don't believe the NT verses etc. This thread is not about the existence of these verses, if need be I will provide some, but it's more about people who already know these verses exist, but don't adhere to them.

I can't be more succinct than this--though it may offend your faith in the Law.

Born again Christians need not follow one law of the Hebrew scriptures. They have died to the Law to be wed to Jesus.

But before you think we're all loose cannons, we have to do MORE than the Law in many cases, in many ways. The Law says don't commit adultery, yet I'll not get emotionally attached to a woman who isn't my spouse and will keep way clear of anything approaching emotional, not physical adultery.

The reason is the born again person is to act and think as much as possible to love God, and love other people. The Law says don't murder, Christians are to watch out for even mere anger.