Where does the moral authority to govern come from?

[an anarchist]

As an anarchist, I don’t believe that governments should be a thing. No individual, or group of individuals, have the right to govern ME! I don’t understand where this supposed authority comes from. I’ve heard a few reasonings as to why government has that authority. Friends have told me that government is inevitable, for example. I don’t agree with that statement. Even if government is inevitable, that doesn’t give them the moral authority to assume governance of me. Do people believe in the social contract? If you’re a statist, why do you feel like the state has the authority to govern you?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

As an anarchist, I don’t believe that governments should be a thing. No individual, or group of individuals, have the right to govern ME! I don’t understand where this supposed authority comes from. I’ve heard a few reasonings as to why government has that authority. Friends have told me that government is inevitable, for example. I don’t agree with that statement. Even if government is inevitable, that doesn’t give them the moral authority to assume governance of me. Do people believe in the social contract? If you’re a statist, why do you feel like the state has the authority to govern you?

I can't really answer the poll, but why do you see 'moral authority' as a necessary prerequisite for government?

 

[an anarchist]

I can't really answer the poll, but why do you see 'moral authority' as a necessary prerequisite for government?

Well if there is no moral authority for a government, then there is no obligation to be loyal or obedient to the government, in my thinking. if they don’t have a moral authority to rule, then doesn’t that mean they have an immoral authority over us?

 

[Lain]

As an anarchist, I don’t believe that governments should be a thing. No individual, or group of individuals, have the right to govern ME! I don’t understand where this supposed authority comes from. I’ve heard a few reasonings as to why government has that authority. Friends have told me that government is inevitable, for example. I don’t agree with that statement. Even if government is inevitable, that doesn’t give them the moral authority to assume governance of me. Do people believe in the social contract? If you’re a statist, why do you feel like the state has the authority to govern you?

I love this question and it reminds me that I have been slacking utterly in my political reading (and I have been into other things), but to me as a "statist" authority (all authority, the authority of a father over his household, the Pope over other humans, and governments over their subjects, and particular instances in other situations) ultimately comes from God. One thing I do not hold and absolutely reject is that it comes from consent, the question of consent is as irrelevant to the subject of authority as nooch is irrelevant to the subject of astrophysics.

Concerning the government though, how this authority appears in the world and how it is taken away (although I hold that even tyrannical action in part does not take it away as a whole but only in that instance) is interesting and there are many opinions on that which I need to study more.

But, in my opinion, that it comes from God ultimately is clear, for the Scripture says "the power of the earth is in the hand of the Lord, and in due time he will set over it one that is profitable," and the Lord said "you would have no authority over Me if it were not given to you from above," and St. Paul says speaking of God's hierarchy "let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except by God, and those that exist are put in place by God."

Due to this I have a very fatherly conception of the state and will often say "a good state is like a good father."

All of that is just my opinion of course.

 

[epronovost]

Well if there is no moral authority for a government, then there is no obligation to be loyal or obedient to the government, in my thinking.

A government isn't a government because you personally "feel" that you have the obligation to be loyal and obedient. You are a human, nobody and nothing can force you to feel something or others; at least not in a consistent and constant basis. You are always master of your own thoughts. A government is a government because it can actually govern; that is force your obedience and punish disloyalty when necessary. Power and morality are two very different things. You saying that X is immoral is, in the end, just a personal belief that is more or less defendable depending on your arguments and circumstances, but it's completely irrelevant to the exercise of power and that's what governments are: systems of power within a polity. That's why your friends sometime say that government are inevitable. If you have a society, you will have systems of power within them to solve conflicts and problems as well as enact projects to achieve goals. These systems are the government. As an anarchist myself, I only want the systems of power to be equalitarian and evenly distributed to all the members of society instead of in the hands of an elite only with a minimal and often largely nominal ascent from an underclass (though representative democracy is still miles better than actual autocracy).

 

[sun rise]

The question in the OP is incomplete. I believe in what the Declaration of Independence says about the ideal role of government, the limits of government to "just powers" and where those powers derive. The reality is of course far from that ideal but I still hold to the ideal.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -

 

[ChristineM]

As an anarchist, I don’t believe that governments should be a thing. No individual, or group of individuals, have the right to govern ME! I don’t understand where this supposed authority comes from. I’ve heard a few reasonings as to why government has that authority. Friends have told me that government is inevitable, for example. I don’t agree with that statement. Even if government is inevitable, that doesn’t give them the moral authority to assume governance of me. Do people believe in the social contract? If you’re a statist, why do you feel like the state has the authority to govern you?

Such authority is either bestowed by violence (i.e. coup) , family (those with the biggest swords though history) or by democratic means. Nothing to do with morality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Such authority is either bestowed by violence (i.e. coup) , family (those with the biggest swords though history) or by democratic means. Nothing to do with morality.

All one can do is to hope that one's government is moral. None of those means is a guarantee to be moral or immoral though historically in my opinion democracies have performed the best. Perhaps the worst examples may have come from families, but the very crazy do tend to meet an untimely end. For the ability to be the worst for the longest and maintain one's power I would have to go with themilitary.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Should be a third option as to something else, and in which case we might look at what various other options might produce. The biggest factor seems to be size of anything and as to what works to enable such to exist in relative harmony - if that was what was wanted.

 

[PureX]

There is no "moral authority" to govern. There is, however, a functional necessity for it. Most humans understand this and agree to set up governments for the sake of functional necessity. Sadly, however, in doing so we also enable a pathway to criminal abuse to those who seek that end. And there always seems to be some among us that do seek that end. So our governments need to be closely monitored and policed. And even then, some corruption seems to be inevitable.

 

[Laika]

As an anarchist, I don’t believe that governments should be a thing. No individual, or group of individuals, have the right to govern ME! I don’t understand where this supposed authority comes from. I’ve heard a few reasonings as to why government has that authority. Friends have told me that government is inevitable, for example. I don’t agree with that statement. Even if government is inevitable, that doesn’t give them the moral authority to assume governance of me. Do people believe in the social contract? If you’re a statist, why do you feel like the state has the authority to govern you?

I voted "I am a Statist" but I'm not sure anymore. I have stayed indoors for nearly two years for the COVID Pandemic because I don't trust the government to tell me the truth (or to even know what it is) and keep me alive if it means hurting the "economy" (i.e. profits).

If it wasn't for the continuous media coverage and social media infighting I wouldn't know the government actually exists at this point. Remove that and the only evidence of consent or democracy is the votes I make every couple of years.

I love this question and it reminds me that I have been slacking utterly in my political reading (and I have been into other things), but to me as a "statist" authority (all authority, the authority of a father over his household, the Pope over other humans, and governments over their subjects, and particular instances in other situations) ultimately comes from God. One thing I do not hold and absolutely reject is that it comes from consent, the question of consent is as irrelevant to the subject of authority as nooch is irrelevant to the subject of astrophysics.

I am firmly in the "democratic" camp but it's refreshing to see someone take a different point of view.

 

[ChristineM]

All one can do is to hope that one's government is moral. None of those means is a guarantee to be moral or immoral though historically in my opinion democracies have performed the best. Perhaps the worst examples may have come from families, but the very crazy do tend to meet an untimely end. For the ability to be the worst for the longest and maintain one's power I would have to go with themilitary.

I would count the military in with violence, little chance of a coup without al least a huge amount of military backing.

 

[Truthseeker]

As an anarchist, I don’t believe that governments should be a thing. No individual, or group of individuals, have the right to govern ME! I don’t understand where this supposed authority comes from. I’ve heard a few reasonings as to why government has that authority. Friends have told me that government is inevitable, for example. I don’t agree with that statement. Even if government is inevitable, that doesn’t give them the moral authority to assume governance of me. Do people believe in the social contract? If you’re a statist, why do you feel like the state has the authority to govern you?

Yes, they do. They are based on divine sanction, but some form of government is needed to keep order. We also need to prevent the other extreme, if we can, of a tyrannical government.

 

[exchemist]

As an anarchist, I don’t believe that governments should be a thing. No individual, or group of individuals, have the right to govern ME! I don’t understand where this supposed authority comes from. I’ve heard a few reasonings as to why government has that authority. Friends have told me that government is inevitable, for example. I don’t agree with that statement. Even if government is inevitable, that doesn’t give them the moral authority to assume governance of me. Do people believe in the social contract? If you’re a statist, why do you feel like the state has the authority to govern you?

If you abide by the law, or use any public services, you are a hypocrite, then.

In democracies, government have legitimacy due to being chosen by the members of society in some way, to act for the benefit of society. So they raise taxes to fund public services and a system of laws to regulate conduct, by consent of the people. That's the deal.

If you are not willing to abide by this deal with your fellow citizens, you should be an outlaw and expelled to some wilderness where you get no public services and where your refusal to abide by the social contract does nobody any harm.

P.S. I will not make an entry in your poll until you define the potentially tendentious term "statist".

 

[Stevicus]

Do people believe in the social contract? If you’re a statist, why do you feel like the state has the authority to govern you?

I see it as a trade-off. We give up some of our freedom in order to achieve a mutual benefit.

A few hundred years ago, it was likely possible for people to escape state rule and form some society out in the wilderness in some unclaimed or uninhabited territory. The world population was smaller, less dense, and there were still parts which were unexplored and uncontrolled by state authority.

Nowadays, that doesn't seem possible in today's industrialized world where every square inch of land is spoken for and under some form of nominal state control. Even if there was some land available, most people in the modern world don't grow their own food anymore. Humans have become more accustomed to living in cities with an industrial and technological infrastructure, mostly working in specialized occupations with specialized skill sets. Many people can't go back to an ungoverned wilderness, since they lack the skills necessary for survival. Even if they had the skill, it would be a lot of work and not really an ideal, comfortable life, not to mention quite risky. Living under a government is easier and safer for most folks.

 

[Nimos]

As an anarchist, I don’t believe that governments should be a thing. No individual, or group of individuals, have the right to govern ME! I don’t understand where this supposed authority comes from. I’ve heard a few reasonings as to why government has that authority. Friends have told me that government is inevitable, for example. I don’t agree with that statement. Even if government is inevitable, that doesn’t give them the moral authority to assume governance of me. Do people believe in the social contract? If you’re a statist, why do you feel like the state has the authority to govern you?

I think you need a state to lay out the general rules of a society and for coexisting. Without it things would end in total chaos, even when we have governments things often run off course. Also it helps when coordinating and streamline larger ideas, like police, education etc.

I don't know how anarchist assume these things would be handled? Lets say that a criminal group or cartel gets together and decide they want to rule, who is going to stop them? or a religious group think that its time that their God or scriptures should apply to all, who should stop them?

 

[Kenny]

The question in the OP is incomplete. I believe in what the Declaration of Independence says about the ideal role of government, the limits of government to "just powers" and where those powers derive. The reality is of course far from that ideal but I still hold to the ideal.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -

beautifully said.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well if there is no moral authority for a government, then there is no obligation to be loyal or obedient to the government, in my thinking. if they don’t have a moral authority to rule, then doesn’t that mean they have an immoral authority over us?

It can be amoral.
Building a road or hospital isn't a moral imperative (necessarily).

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I see it as a trade-off. We give up some of our freedom in order to achieve a mutual benefit.

A few hundred years ago, it was likely possible for people to escape state rule and form some society out in the wilderness in some unclaimed or uninhabited territory. The world population was smaller, less dense, and there were still parts which were unexplored and uncontrolled by state authority.

Nowadays, that doesn't seem possible in today's industrialized world where every square inch of land is spoken for and under some form of nominal state control. Even if there was some land available, most people in the modern world don't grow their own food anymore. Humans have become more accustomed to living in cities with an industrial and technological infrastructure, mostly working in specialized occupations with specialized skill sets. Many people can't go back to an ungoverned wilderness, since they lack the skills necessary for survival. Even if they had the skill, it would be a lot of work and not really an ideal, comfortable life, not to mention quite risky. Living under a government is easier and safer for most folks.

I agree with the thrust of your post, but it's not THAT hard to find escapes from close government if you really want to.
I did, and I'm not anti-government, nor was I wealthy at the time. But people often seem to talk out of both sides of their mouth.

 

[Stevicus]

I agree with the thrust of your post, but it's not THAT hard to find escapes from close government if you really want to.
I did, and I'm not anti-government, nor was I wealthy at the time. But people often seem to talk out of both sides of their mouth.

Well, one might be able to find some isolated, out of the way spots to settle. I agree it's possible to maintain a low profile and remain unnoticed, especially if one lives "off the grid" so to speak. But technically, they would still be under some government's jurisdiction wherever they go. Even Antarctica is governed by international treaty.