Where is the evidence for Jesus?

[roli]

*sigh*

If only there were a definitive and purely objective "piety test" available, that could determine with absolute certainty just who was a "real/true" Christian, from all those other poseurs and self-deluded wanna-be "false/fake" Chrsitians.

There is an absolute test that you can know your saved,born again, and going to heaven.
Regardless of what intellectual people say,God confirms is relationship with them that trust Him and accept his sacrifice of His son for the sins of the world.

He saysJhn 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Jhn 14:26But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 16:77 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He *will take of Mine and declare it to you.

This is the seal of approval for those who believe,if it was up to us to just believe by and intellectual accent,many christians would have departed a long time ago.
We have deposit a sure thing and thopse outside will only experience through experience
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
2Cr 1:22who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2Cr 5:5Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
1Jo 4:13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

 

[pladecalvo]

There is an absolute test that you can know your saved,born again, and going to heaven.

You should replace the word "know" for the word "believe" because you don't exactly "know" do you?

 

[roli]

You should replace the word "know" for the word "believe" because you don't exactly "know" do you?

If you only knew that I mean,you can know ,a person who believes in Jesus Christ and receives him will know.
This my friend is an expereince to be had ,until this happens you will only speculate, question and try to philosophize it till it's nothing more than another thought tossed to and fro.

 

[Navigator]

If you only knew that I mean,you can know ,a person who believes in Jesus Christ and receives him will know.
This my friend is an expereince to be had ,until this happens you will only speculate, question and try to philosophize it till it's nothing more than another thought tossed to and fro.

:yes:
What roli says is true, and is free to anyone who genuinely seeks Jesus Christ.

 

[pladecalvo]

:yes:
What roli says is true, and is free to anyone who genuinely seeks Jesus Christ.

:no: If your Jesus want's me he knows where to find me. As for seeking him through religion-

Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth.
-Henry Louis Mencken

 

[love]

[Jesus is said to have performed many supernatural feats, such as healing the sick, feeding thousands with magically created food and even bringing back the dead. These miracles were performed in front of witnesses, sometimes crowds, all of whom were amazed. If these stories are true, we should expect his reputation to spread like wildfire.]
It did spread like wildfire without the luxury of cell phones.

 

[pladecalvo]

[Jesus is said to have performed many supernatural feats, such as healing the sick, feeding thousands with magically created food and even bringing back the dead. These miracles were performed in front of witnesses, sometimes crowds, all of whom were amazed. If these stories are true, we should expect his reputation to spread like wildfire.]
It did spread like wildfire without the luxury of cell phones.

So how come there is no evidence outside the bible? How come nobody even heard of JC until 150 years after his death?

 

[roli]

:no: If your Jesus want's me he knows where to find me. As for seeking him through religion-

Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth.
-Henry Louis Mencken

Your right ,he knows where you are,who you are,what your doing ,done and will do.
He came to save us all ,only applicable to those who seek him for that reason
God is a gentleman,he won't force his will or way upon those who refuse to seek him .
You must seek him ,Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Isa 55:6Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
time and time again he says you will find me if you seek me.Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Jer 24:7And I will give them an heart to know me, that I [am] the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.
Deu 30:10If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, [and] if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Psa 119:2Blessed [are] they that keep his testimonies, [and that] seek him with the whole heart.

He does not need us we desperately need him
What kind of an attitude do you think is behind that kind of a response," if I were God and you said to me," if he wants me he knows where I am"
It sure to me sounds anything but humility,brokenness.
Pro 1:23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.
Prov1:24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the Lord,
30 They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.
31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.

 

[pladecalvo]

Your right ,he knows where you are,who you are,what your doing ,done and will do.
He came to save us all ,only applicable to those who seek him for that reason
God is a gentleman,he won't force his will or way upon those who refuse to seek him .
You must seek him

Hola Roli,
So he will only reveal himself to those who already beleive that he exists? Would it not be more beneficial to reveal himself to those who don't believe and therefore cause everyone to be saved, which is after all, what he says he wants.

He does not need us we desperately need him
What kind of an attitude do you think is behind that kind of a response," if I were God and you said to me," if he wants me he knows where I am"
It sure to me sounds anything but humility,brokenness.

So we must crawl to him 'humiliated and broken'. Well that figures. That's one of my main problems with Christianity. It seems to me that Christianity demands that you consider yourself to be 'unworthy'.

Roli,
You really are wasting your time quoting biblical verses to an atheist. They don't mean anything to me and they prove nothing.

 

[roli]

[

quote=pladecalvo]

Hola Roli,
So he will only reveal himself to those who already beleive that he exists? Would it not be more beneficial to reveal himself to those who don't believe and therefore cause everyone to be saved, which is after all, what he says he wants.

Nope,unless you believe you will not ever recieve the gift of eternal life or the knowledge of God,Not to alarm you as that probably does'nt ,but just a side point to note. i'll just paraphrase as you don't take to kindly to scripture.
You may not and many usually don't believe with their facility of intellect, reason and logic,as long as it is well in tacked, so it usually takes a circumstance out of their control before many will call on God, seek a priest,pastor or prayer.
When reason and self driven abilities fail and are futile and fleeting,many resort to faith in God,I'm certainly not saying you will do this,but your life is yet unwritten.
You have no idea what your circumstances may cause you to do tommorrow,it may be something totally outside your character and ability to do,we may be defiant today but desperate and desiring for God tommorrow.
You would be surprised to know how many people come to God when confronted with trying circumstances,you see pride is a very strong element that keeps men from calling on God,always has and most certain it always will.
But when the proverbial rug is removed from whence one once stood,rationale is tossed out like a dirty shirt and you will be amazed at how simple faith appears to be most real and apparent and it is at that point that takes them into the presence of God.
Much like 911,life was good mortality in the distance and to many God was on the shelf,placed in a box,but 911 comes,people see life differently,people are face to face with their fate and mortality and the churches are full for a couple of months,God is out of the box.
After a couple of months ,life is good mortality in the backs of many minds where it is hidden from being confronted,back to life a usual,place God back in the box
There you have it,

So we must crawl to him 'humiliated and broken'. Well that figures. That's one of my main problems with Christianity. It seems to me that Christianity demands that you consider yourself to be 'unworthy'.

God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble,the hard arrogant proud will not ever see the face of God,nor will he show himself to them as the word clearly states over and over.
That's the whole essence of needing Christ,just look around the world and tell me what you see, men lying stealing,cheating,murder,hate violence,selfishness,pride,arrogance,vengence,immorality,greedy,lust,is that evolution or degradation.
In our eyes we think we are worthy,but to God we are lost sinners separated from Him by the sin that has marked us.

Roli,
You really are wasting your time quoting biblical verses to an atheist. They don't mean anything to me and they prove nothing

It's not a waste of time, the power of God's words is greater than your ability to resist,it cuts the heart like a knife,discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart.
His word will not return void but will accomplish what he wants it to do.
It's out of our control
Jam 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

 

[pstevenson]

"You experience what you believe, unless you believe you won't, in which case you don't, which means you did." - Harry palmer from the workbook "ReSurfacing"

 

[jmaster78]

i believe in G-D but not Jesus as the son of G-D. he may or may not have been the heir to the throne of David but thats as much credit as i'm prepared to give. Remember Jesus didn't create christianity, Paul did. (it should really be called Paulianity) Jesus if he existed would have been a strict Jew and would have been disgusted at the new religion created after him. As has been said before, many believe christianity is a heresy of Judaism. As for the stories attributed to him eg. Jesus entered Jerusalem on a donkey through the east gate and this is seen as fulfilling the old prophesy, OBVIOUSLY, if you want people to think your the messiah your going to do exactly what the relevant prophesies say the messiah will do. Don't forget the word messiah simply means 'priestly king' though today it has come to mean Savior, son of G-D etc. As for being the son of G-D and perforing miracles, imagine your Paul, you want to impress your new religion on the Romans, you have to make your figurehead equal if not better than the one already in place ie. Caesar. Caesar was considered a god, therefore Pauls figurehead also needed to be godlike, Caesar performed miracles, so Pauls figurehead also needed to perform miracles etc. In effect Jesus needed to be a mirror image of Caesar, though Pauls trumph card was to discard the wealth and luxury of Caesar (which the citizens hated) and replaced it with a god king in wrags 'like the common man'. And so the cult of Christ was born. Hence the lack of evidence for Jesus.

 

[logician]

No comtempory historian of the time of the supposed Jesus ever heard of the man. The few references to Jesus from Josusphus are considered forgeries probably added much later by the Bishop Eusabius. The NT stories are just that, storoes written much after the time of Christ by unknown authors.

 

[astarath]

I suppose in my heart isnt going to suffice as an answer to all the atheists out there huh?

 

[UnTheist]

I suppose in my heart isnt going to suffice as an answer to all the atheists out there huh?

Not really

 

[astarath]

Well it's there, it's in yours to but I suppose that probably not going to help either huh?

 

[UnTheist]

Well it's there, it's in yours to but I suppose that probably not going to help either huh?

If it helps you, my 'heart' or whatever you want to call it, tells me a God doesn't exist. But that wouldn't convince you at all

 

[pladecalvo]

Well it's there, it's in yours to but I suppose that probably not going to help either huh?

How can you worship a god that set you up for failure, and then blames and punishes you for that failure?

How can you respect a god that punishes you for something that he did?

Your god holds all the cards, deals you a losing hand, and blames you for losing.

 

[Quiddity]

*MOD REVIEW*
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD. IF YOU WISH TO DISCUSS SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THE TOPIC YOU ARE MORE THEN WELCOME TO START ANOTHER THREAD.
​

 

[pladecalvo]

*MOD REVIEW*

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD. IF YOU WISH TO DISCUSS SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THE TOPIC YOU ARE MORE THEN WELCOME TO START ANOTHER THREAD.​

Hola Victor,

Was your post directed at me or was it just 'general'?