WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[viole]

I'm sorry. Not following.
Can you be more specific than "a commandment"?

Working on Saturdays = Killing a child.
According to the 10 commandments.

That is all.

The 10 commandments were given to Israel.
The principles on which the commandments are based apply to all people.

Exactly. Ergo, working on the weekend = killing a child. For all people.

Did I say that? Perhaps you are reading more into what I said.

You did not say that. The 10 commandments say that. Don't you believe all commandments are equally important?

You are running with a misunderstanding. Perhaps back up a bit.

Lying = murder. According to the 10 commandments. Therefore, lying is like abortion. However, Christians rally against abortion, but not against the right to lie. Many of them watch Fox News and seem to be OK with it, for instance.

What I consider evil, is not evil, just because I consider it evil.
What is evil... is the question.
I might consider it evil for you not to greet me on the street. Another person might not consider that evil. What is evil? Disobeying God is evil.... but you don't believe that, and you claim there is no God. So, to you, that's cool. Not evil.

What is so difficult? If the 10 commandments are the management summary of God given morality, then working on Saturdays is as criminal as killing people.

Your moral intuitions are irrelevant. If you believe in the Bible, and that God really gave us moral laws, then you are forced to agree that a worker in a hospital over the weekend is as immoral as a guy who raped and killed a child. Especially killed, since there is no prescription against rape really. In fact, working on the weekend might be vastly worse than raping.

So, a logically coherent Christian cannot but agree with me. Working over the weekend, and killing, are equally wrong.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Windwalker]

Nothing personal dear friend. I only see your words here that do not address any of the content and the scriptures in the post you are micro-quoting from that are in disagreement with you (see post # 484 linked). Lets talk more when you have something to contribute to the discussion.

I offered a detailed, highly lucid and well-informed explanation of the scriptures. You just brushed it all off the table without even a thought. You wish to this to be a discussion, address the points I raised. I would love for you to address my points.

For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them (see Romans 3:4 compare Acts 5:29; 32). All you have provided in your post here is to avoid addressing the scripture content in the post you are quoting from that is in disagreement with you, while making arguments here that no one believes.

Everything I said answers those very clearly. But what you fail to grasp here, is that you and I read the exact same words and come up with very different understandings. Why is that?

I could just as easily say to you, "These are God's words, not mine!", because that is what I see them saying. But I won't do that, because that lack integrity. It is your understanding of God's word, that I dispute. Not the scriptures themselves. I dispute your reading of them. Isn't that valid to say?

We should not be afraid of testing what we believe through the scriptures. Its a blessing from God to know the truth of His Word.

I prefer to know the scriptures through knowing God. But to each their own.

Better to find out now rather than latter only to learn that our sins caused us to lose our salvation.

So you do see salvation as something your earn. I don't see how this brings you Peace. I don't believe in the God of fear.

Let me ask you again dear friend; Where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus? There is none is there?

Why don't you wish to discuss Romans 14 with me? Is it because you know you can't defend yourself against what it explicitly says, which I quoted, which you ignored?

If you are sincere, then address my points I raised. I don't need to quote 100 different verses. If you feel you need to address one or two, I will happily offer my interpretation of them for you. But don't throw 60 at me and expect me to address each one.

 

[Windwalker]

Yeshua taught that those "who commit lawlessness" will be "gathered" and thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:41-42).

Who's talking about lawlessness? Not me. You sure love your fire and brimstone verses and slaying those damn democrats and liberal scum, in Jesus' name, Amen.

The "kingdom" is built on the "stone" of righteousness, the process of doing what is right as determined by God's Word, and "justice" as determined by God's Word and not man.

I am quoting Jesus' teachings, and you are simply rejecting them. I know that Love is hard to hear when we are full of fear and anger at others. All of that is just a compensatory defensive response to one's own inner pain.

I wish you Peace.

 

[3rdAngel]

I offered a detailed, highly lucid and well-informed explanation of the scriptures. You just brushed it all off the table without even a thought. You wish to this to be a discussion, address the points I raised. I would love for you to address my points.


Everything I said answers those very clearly. But what you fail to grasp here, is that you and I read the exact same words and come up with very different understandings. Why is that?

I could just as easily say to you, "These are God's words, not mine!", because that is what I see them saying. But I won't do that, because that lack integrity. It is your understanding of God's word, that I dispute. Not the scriptures themselves. I dispute your reading of them. Isn't that valid to say?

I prefer to know the scriptures through knowing God. But to each their own.


So you do see salvation as something your earn. I don't see how this brings you Peace. I don't believe in the God of fear.

Why don't you wish to discuss Romans 14 with me? Is it because you know you can't defend yourself against what it explicitly says, which I quoted, which you ignored?

If you are sincere, then address my points I raised. I don't need to quote 100 different verses. If you feel you need to address one or two, I will happily offer my interpretation of them for you. But don't throw 60 at me and expect me to address each one.

No please stop making claims to things I have never said or believe. Everything you have posted here has already been addressed in post and scripture content that disagrees with you that you choose to ignore with your words that are not Gods Words. So it is God's Words not my words you are arguing with dear friend not me. No one can claim to know God if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. John says in 1 John 2:3-4 3, "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." James calls this the dead faith of devils in James 2:13-26. You may want to consider reading what Jesus says in John 8:31-36. No one can be Christs disciples if they do not continue believing and obeying what Gods Word says. Take Care dear friend your posts only show me that you do not know the scriptures. If you would like some helpful bible studies please feel free to DM me. It's time to unlearn all the lies we have all been taught from Sunday school. God is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions to worship him in Spirit and in truth according to His Word (John 4:23-24; John 17:17; John 6:63). According to the scriptures, Gods sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear and follow according to Jesus are not His sheep in John 10:26-27.

Take Care.

 

[Windwalker]

No please stop making claims to things I have never said or believe.

You explicitly said in post#469 above:

All I have shared with you is Gods Word. Gods Words are not my words but Gods Word but you do not believe them.

I'm not making anything up here. That's all I was making a claim about. That and the fact that you ignored all the content of my posts and didn't address a single thing in them. You ignored all of Romans 14. If I am wrong, please prove otherwise.

Everything you have posted here has already been addressed in post and scripture content that disagrees with you that you choose to ignore with your words that are not Gods Words.

What post? You didn't address my points at all. Prove me wrong. And of course my words are not God's words. Neither are yours! Or do you think they are??

So it is God you are arguing with dear friend not me.

No I'm not. I'm arguing with you, unless you consider yourself to be God now?

No one can claim to know God by not believing and obeying what Gods Word says. *1 John 2:3-4 3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

And yet you judge others. Yet you ignore Romans 14. Yet you ignore Jesus' words, etc. Are you sure you're saved, according to your reasoning here?

James calls this the dead faith of devils in James 2:13-26.

That's right. I fully agree with that. I have both faith and works. But does that mean I can't find your ideas about God to be misguided and unhealthy?

You may want to consider reading what Jesus says in John 8:31-36.

I'm quite comfortable in my understanding of what Jesus means here. As long as I abide in Love, I will fulfill God's will. This is what Jesus, Paul, James, and others all taught. Something you fail to grasp yet, as you feel you have to do the works of your own efforts in order to win God's love for yourself. Don't you?

Take Care dear friend your posts only show me that you do not know the scriptures.

I believe I likely know them better than you. I do have a degree in theology as a start. But far beyond that, they are written on the tablets of my heart.

If you would like some helpful bible studies please feel free to DM me.

I think I have a broader understanding about biblical materials than you probably do at this point, but thanks for the offer.

It's time to unlearn all the lies we have all been taught from Sunday school.

Well, I did have to unlearn some stuff from my Bible college days. It took numerous years of study as well as prayer and meditation.

According to the scriptures, Gods sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear and follow according to Jesus are not His sheep in John 10:26-27.

Yes. Legalism is climbing in another way, not through the Door of the sheep.

Peace.

 

[3rdAngel]

You explicitly said in post#469 above:

I'm not making anything up here. That's all I was making a claim about. That and the fact that you ignored all the content of my posts and didn't address a single thing in them. You ignored all of Romans 14. If I am wrong, please prove otherwise.


What post? You didn't address my points at all. Prove me wrong. And of course my words are not God's words. Neither are yours! Or do you think they are??


No I'm not. I'm arguing with you, unless you consider yourself to be God now?


And yet you judge others. Yet you ignore Romans 14. Yet you ignore Jesus' words, etc. Are you sure you're saved, according to your reasoning here?


That's right. I fully agree with that. I have both faith and works. But does that mean I can't find your ideas about God to be misguided and unhealthy?


I'm quite comfortable in my understanding of what Jesus means here. As long as I abide in Love, I will fulfill God's will. This is what Jesus, Paul, James, and others all taught. Something you fail to grasp yet, as you feel you have to do the works of your own efforts in order to win God's love for yourself. Don't you?


I believe I likely know them better than you. I do have a degree in theology as a start. But far beyond that, they are written on the tablets of my heart.


I think I have a broader understanding about biblical materials than you probably do at this point, but thanks for the offer.


Well, I did have to unlearn some stuff from my Bible college days. It took numerous years of study as well as prayer and meditation.


Yes. Legalism is climbing in another way, not through the Door of the sheep.

Peace.

There is no truth in your posts here. Everything you posted earlier was addressed with a detailed scripture response you simply ignored and refused to address. Now in your post here you are simply deflecting back what I already said to you. I would challenge you to prove your false claims and if you cannot why make statement and posts that are not truthful (see post # 484 linked in regartds to your claims of Romans 14)? Yes I agree you are making things up in order to seek to justify your sins. Gods Word is the light we need to come to in order to know the truth but Jesus says in John 3:19-20 that this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. We can choose to believe and follow Gods Word or not but the words of God we choose to accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. It is not legalism to believe and obey what Gods Word says. Obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of faith. According to James the devils believe but do not obey what Gods Word says. James calls this the dead faith of devils in James 2:13-26. Saving faith does not abolish Gods law according to Paul it establishes Gods law in the lives of those who believe Gods Word and have been born again to walk in Gods Spirit *Galatians 5:16. Obedience to Gods Word is the very definition of genuine saving faith from a new heart that loves and obeys God (see Romans 3:31; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 5:2-4; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:4-9). Anything else is the dead faith of devils according to the scriptures.

Take Care dear friend.

 

[Windwalker]

Yes I agree you are making things up in order to seek to justify your sins.

What sins do you believe I am committing, and trying to justify? No, you are just making this up because you have no answer to the points I am illuminating from scripture. You start trying to attack me personally, rather than address the points directly. Since you can't, you have to attack, because your pride will not let you acknowledge you don't know something.

Gods Word is the light we need to come to in order to know the truth but Jesus says in John 3:19-20

Great, then lets' come to that discussion regarding Romans 14. That's scripture isn't it? Why is it you don't want to discuss it with me? Are you fearful of coming to that light? I can't think of any other reason you are trying to avoid it this way, calling me a sinner and whatnot, when you know nothing about who am I personally.

So if you want to talk scriptura, then let's talk. Deal with my post about Romans 14. If you don't, then I guess that says the truth more than your words do.

 

[3rdAngel]

What sins do you believe I am committing, and trying to justify? No, you are just making this up because you have no answer to the points I am illuminating from scripture. You start trying to attack me personally, rather than address the points directly. Since you can't, you have to attack, because your pride will not let you acknowledge you don't know something.

Sorry dear friend but I do not judge you. It is the words of God that are our judge not me and not you and we are to judge righteous judgement according to what Gods Word says (John 12:47-48; John 7:24). According to the scriptures if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4. Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments are one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is. As posted earlier there is a test to know if someone is from God or not from God and it is found in 1 John 2:3-4 and says "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." and according to Jesus the words of God we accept of reject will become our judge come judgement day. So it is better to know today then latter if we are following Gods Word of not because according to Hebrews 10:26-27 "If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." and again in the very words of Jesus "Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity (sin)." - Matthew 7:21-23. God has His people in every church living up to all the knowledge of His Word that He has revealed to them. Many sin out of ignorance of Gods Word and God does not hold us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth through His Word. At this time He expects us to believe and follow what His Word says or we will be held accountable for our sins (see James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31 compare Hebrews 10:26-27)

Great, then lets' come to that discussion regarding Romans 14. That's scripture isn't it? Why is it you don't want to discuss it with me? Are you fearful of coming to that light? I can't think of any other reason you are trying to avoid it this way, calling me a sinner and whatnot, when you know nothing about who am I personally. So if you want to talk scriptura, then let's talk. Deal with my post about Romans 14. If you don't, then I guess that says the truth more than your words do.

I have been talking scripture throughout this OP but you do not believe them. Lets continue because you are a little behind already and have some catching up to do as you have ignored all my post content and scriptures shared with you that are in disagreement with you. In regards to Romans 14 see *post # 484 linked second part where you falsely accused me of not responding to what you said in regards to your false claims about Romans 14. If you want a discussion then lets have a friendly honest one please based on the scriptures.

Take Care

 

[2ndpillar]

Who's talking about lawlessness? Not me. You sure love your fire and brimstone verses and slaying those damn democrats and liberal scum, in Jesus' name, Amen.

I don't know, but it sounds like God's Law, the Commandments, does not apply to you. It seems you are in line with the "woke" with regards to letting out of jail felons, who killed, raped, and robbed their fellow citizens, because of your "merciful" soul. It seems you are in line with cutting off body parts of children with gender dysphoria. If you want to be "merciful", then forgive the felon who stole your car, not the car of someone else. Your "mercy" seems cheap for you, but not for your fellow citizen. As for "democrats", they might not mind being called leftist, "woke" or liberals, but they may draw the line at being called "scum" and "damn". I also think that if your "Lord" is "Jesus", then calling on his name in vain, might not be in line with the 3rd Commandment. It also it does not get rave reviews with respect to your false prophet Paul, per Matthew 22-23:

22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

 

[Windwalker]

I don't know, but it sounds like God's Law, the Commandments, does not apply to you.

And yet, countless times to your utter confusion, I continue to repeat that love is the fulfillment of the law, that if you have love in your heart, you will naturally obey all the commandments, because "love works no ill". Again, and again I repeat this in every post, and yet, somehow, you think I am advocating lawlessness, and celebrating sin? How does this compute in your brain, may I ask? You certainly have me dumbfounded. And yet, here we are.

If you love, then you will naturally fulfill all of the commandments, not violating them. End of story.

It seems you are in line with the "woke" with regards to letting out of jail felons, who killed, raped, and robbed their fellow citizens, because of your "merciful" soul.

I don't know what dragon in your mind you are doing battle with, but I've never said anything like this. But if you mock being merciful, then you mock the very nature of God. "I desire mercy, not sacrifice," says God in the Bible.

You certainly have a lot of hatred in your heart for liberals and those who show compassion to others, don't you? Why is that? What pain is it you are suffering inside of you that make you so bitter towards others? This is not the way of Jesus. Just read the stories in your bible, and you'll see. Maybe you need to feel that unconditional love yourself? It can change how you see yourself and everyone else.

 

[Windwalker]

Sorry dear friend but I do not judge you. It is the words of God that are our judge not me and not you and we are to judge righteous judgement according to what Gods Word says (John 12:47-48; John 7:24).

Dude, what is it you don't understand how that you simply tell me what you think the Bible means it's somehow "God's words, not mine", but when I tell you what I think it means, it's my words and not God's? It's not hard to comprehend. You can quote a verse and tell me what you think it means, and I can quote the same verse and tell you what I think it means that is entirely different from what you think. But when you do it, "it's God's words", when I do it's my words. It makes no sense at all, other than you seriously think you are an oracle of God or something.

Do you believe this about yourself? Explain this to me. Please try. Why is not your words, but God's when you tell me what you think a verse means, but it's my words and not God's when I tell you what I think that same verse means? Are you that arrogant or that delusional to believe you have a direct line to the Almighty when it comes to bible interpretations? Do you consider yourself a infallible prophet, called out by God to save those who think differently from you?

And btw, I haven't read every single post in this thread, as I simply don't have that much time or energy. It's 26 pages long, and you pretty much just keep posting the same verses over and over without engaging in actual dialog about them. If you don't want to answer direct questions from me, then I won't bother hoping for a discussion with you. I keep asking, and you keep offering excuses, and just barragging me with bible quotes instead of a discussion.

That's not a debate. That's preaching. For every verse you post, I can offer an alternative understanding that is consistent with the teachings of Jesus and the "law of love". So more verses won't change that. Dialog is necessary, unless you're just not interested in that at all and just want a soapbox to proclaim your rightness from without serious challenge? Your choice.

 

[3rdAngel]

Dude, what is it you don't understand how that you simply tell me what you think the Bible means it's somehow "God's words, not mine", but when I tell you what I think it means, it's my words and not God's? It's not hard to comprehend. You can quote a verse and tell me what you think it means, and I can quote the same verse and tell you what I think it means that is entirely different from what you think. But when you do it, "it's God's words", when I do it's my words. It makes no sense at all, other than you seriously think you are an oracle of God or something.

Do you believe this about yourself? Explain this to me. Please try. Why is not your words, but God's when you tell me what you think a verse means, but it's my words and not God's when I tell you what I think that same verse means? Are you that arrogant or that delusional to believe you have a direct line to the Almighty when it comes to bible interpretations? Do you consider yourself a infallible prophet, called out by God to save those who think differently from you?

And btw, I haven't read every single post in this thread, as I simply don't have that much time or energy. It's 26 pages long, and you pretty much just keep posting the same verses over and over without engaging in actual dialog about them. If you don't want to answer direct questions from me, then I won't bother hoping for a discussion with you. I keep asking, and you keep offering excuses, and just barragging me with bible quotes instead of a discussion.

That's not a debate. That's preaching. For every verse you post, I can offer an alternative understanding that is consistent with the teachings of Jesus and the "law of love". So more verses won't change that. Dialog is necessary, unless you're just not interested in that at all and just want a soapbox to proclaim your rightness from without serious challenge? Your choice.

So that is a no then, you are not willing to enter into an honest scripture discussion and want to continue pretending I am saying and beleiveing things I have never said or believe and pretending I am doing things I am not doing as a deflection to the posts and scriptures shared with you that are in disagreement with you while micro-quoting my posts without addressing any of my post content. I did not think you were willing to enter into an honest discussion. Sadly you just proved my point with your post here. Sharing God's Word is not preaching it is sharing scripture for what one believes in a scripture discussion forum. You either have scripture to support your view or you do not. You do not have scrpiture to support your view so you seek to make the discussion about anything else but the scriptures shared with you that are in disagreement with you. Anyhow as the OP states there is no scripture that says that Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus is there. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 where Jesus says those who follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word are not worshiping God and our hearts are far from him. This is why Jesus says "If you love me, keep my commandments" *John 14:15 and those who keep Gods commandments abide in Gods love in John 15:10 while John says in His own words that no one can claim to know God if they do not keep Gods' commandments and the truth is not in them in 1 John 2:3-4 if they claim to know Him. According to the scriptures we are better off to believe and follow what Gods Word says (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; 31) then to follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God. Lets agree to disagree and I will leave it with you and God to work out as I believe that our discussion is not profitable because you are not willing to have an honest discussion and see and know Gods Word or His truth but to simply argue against it.

Take Care.

 

[2ndpillar]

And yet, countless times to your utter confusion, I continue to repeat that love is the fulfillment of the law, that if you have love in your heart, you will naturally obey all the commandments, because "love works no ill" . Again, and again I repeat this in every post, and yet, somehow, you think I am advocating lawlessness, and celebrating sin? How does this compute in your brain, may I ask? You certainly have me dumbfounded. And yet, here we are.

If you love, then you will naturally fulfill all of the commandments, not violating them. End of story.

Your personal viewpoint of "love" rings false. Your reference to Hosea 6:6 is out of context, and with a poor translation, and as for your "mercy", it is a mercy contrived in your own mind. The in-context version is with respect to Judah and Ephraim, and states as follows, which rails against transgressing the covenant, the Commandments set down by God. But feel free to choose your own Commandments, for it has been done since the dawn of creation, and only leads to death. (Genesis 3:3-4) Maybe to attain "knowledge of God", it would be reasonable to read more than one contrived understanding of one verse which varies immensely in translation. Your reliance on quotes from the false prophet Paul, is also a non starter (Romans 13:10). The message of the "false prophets" leads to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15)

Hosea 6:6 For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice,
And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.
7But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant;
There they have dealt treacherously again

 

[pearl]

And yet, countless times to your utter confusion, I continue to repeat that love is the fulfillment of the law, that if you have love in your heart, you will naturally obey all the commandments, because "love works no ill".

The same could be said of the 'Commandments', if we sincerely believed and followed the first three, the following seven would not be necessary.

 

[Windwalker]

The same could be said of the 'Commandments', if we sincerely believed and followed the first three, the following seven would not be necessary.

The funny thing about the "10 commandments" is there really are two sets of them, if you didn't know that. The second set, is the one that was carried in the ark of the covenant, it's the one that survived Moses destroying the 1st set. And they are different commandments. Here is the restored 10 Commandments from Exodus 34:

1. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land.​

2. Do not make any idols.​

3. Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread.​

4. The first offspring of every womb belongs to me.​

5. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.​

6. Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest.​

7. Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year.​

8. Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.​

9. Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.​

10. Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.​

​

The thing is, these 2 different sets of "10 commandments" are actually just overview of the book of the covenant, or the 613 commandments that they are to follow in Hebrew society under the priestly Mosaic law system.

It's nonsense for Christians outside of that system of law with all of its precepts to seize upon the 1st of the two sets of the decalog as the "important one", and choosing saying the 4th commandment to stand out as timeless and eternal, binding for all generations, both Jews and Christians as forever important, while the 2nd replacement set of the 10 commandments by God is ignored.

This is why the Golden Rule found in the "Two Greatest Commandments" overrides all this old covenant system. Christians live under the new covenant, not the old covenant. The two sets of the "10 Commandments" are all about the old covenant, not the new covenant.

So you don't need to follow, let's say the 10th commandment, "Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.". You don't need to follow 7th commandment, "Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year." You don't need to follow the 3rd commandment, "Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread." And you don't need to follow the 6th commandment (or the 4th from the 1st set of 10 commandments that was destroyed and replaced by this 2nd one, which was kept in the ark of the covenant in the temple), "Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest."

These are not timeless, eternal laws of God. But "Love your neighbor as yourself," is. It is astonishing to me how much these legalistic Christians don't understand about the Christian faith, that they still need to try to resurrect the Mosaic law, cherry picking the 4th commandment, but ignoring the entire 2nd "restored" 10 commandments!

There is a reason there is New Testament. Why do they treat the Old Testament as its equal? It makes no sense. The only conclusion I can come to is that love and grace confuses them. They feel they need to do something to deserve it. They feel they need to earn salvation through their works. They seek to overcome their guilt through heroic efforts to please God.

 

[Windwalker]

So that is a no then, you are not willing to enter into an honest scripture discussion and want to continue pretending I am saying and beleiveing things I have never said or believe and pretending I am doing things

I quoted your words. That's not pretending. You have on multiple occasions claimed essentially that your words are God's words, by denying that your are interpreting the Bible. You've said it multiple times, and I've provided the quotes from your posts.

Do you wish to clarify here at this point that you interpret scripture the same as the rest of us, and even though you are quoting the Bible, it's your understanding you are sharing, just like it's my understanding I am sharing quoting the same verses? Can you admit that to me so we can move forward?

I am more than willing to discuss this with you. But to keep things simple and get this promised discussion on track, I just posted a new post right before this one to another poster this morning. Post #515. Let's start there, since it directly calls into question your entire premise of the importance of the 4th commandment. Okay?

 

[Windwalker]

Your personal viewpoint of "love" rings false.

That's an honest response. It doesn't feel right to you. And that has been my underlying point all along. You cannot relate to what unconditional love is because it is something outside of your personal experience.

Earlier, you, as well as others, confuse unconditional love as overly permissive and lacking disciple towards your children. That is not what unconditional love looks like, but without personal experience with it, that is how it is imagined to be by those who lack firsthand knowledge of what it is.

That was a new insight for me, and I am grateful to have realized that through your sharing that.

Your reference to Hosea 6:6 is out of context, and with a poor translation, and as for your "mercy", it is a mercy contrived in your own mind.

I'm quoting Jesus Christ, from Matthew 9:13. All the translations seem to say the same thing, and the context is clear. Matthew offers the context right there in the verse:

While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”​

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On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ a For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”​

Please note that all the times you slander the "woke" crowd, or democrats, or liberals and progressives with your tongue, how much that parallels the Pharisees attacking Jesus hanging out with the "woke" crowd whom you despise as much as they did the tax collectors and other groups of people whom they deemed unworthy of God? Note the context that Mercy is more important to God than all of your legalist following of the letters of the law while overlooking the "weightier matters of the law".

I'm not missing anything here that I can see. It was Jesus quoting Hosea, and me quoting Matthew quoting Jesus. Perhaps you are arguing Jesus misapplied this as well as me?

 

[2ndpillar]

That's an honest response. It doesn't feel right to you. And that has been my underlying point all along. You cannot relate to what unconditional love is because it is something outside of your personal experience.

Earlier, you, as well as others, confuse unconditional love as overly permissive and lacking disciple towards your children. That is not what unconditional love looks like, but without personal experience with it, that is how it is imagined to be by those who lack firsthand knowledge of what it is.

That was a new insight for me, and I am grateful to have realized that through your sharing that.

Your personal subjective viewpoint with respect to your love trumping the Love of God, which is keeping the Commandments (Psalm 24:10) is a problem you have not overcome. Yeshua's message was the "kingdom" and has to do with Ephraim and Judah being reunited, springled clean, and receiving a new heart and spirit, and living on he land given to Jacob under the rule of king David. (Ezekiel 37:15-28). It had nothing to do with some false gospel of grace/cross, whereas the laws of God were nailed to some tree in the form of a pagan cross. As with most followers of Paul, they think that it is not them that commit evil, but the evil/devil within them does what they do not want to do (Romans 7:20), and therefore their brothers, the liars, thieves, and murderers, should be let out of prisons. Of course Paul and his followers are correct, but the answer is to turn from wickedness, and get baptized in the Spirit, after confessing their sins, repenting, and producing fruit in line with that repentance. The answer is not to cut off body parts of children, letting felons out of prisons, allowing theft up to $1000 to go unprosecuted, and pushing immorality, which appears to be in line with the progressive way of "mercy". Being crazy, and showing mercy are two different things.

Psalm 25:10

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Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps His covenant of loving devotion for a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commandments. Psalm 25:10 All the LORD's ways are loving and faithful to those who keep His covenant and His decrees.

 

[2ndpillar]

Please note that all the times you slander the "woke" crowd, or democrats, or liberals and progressives with your tongue, how much that parallels the Pharisees attacking Jesus hanging out with the "woke" crowd whom you despise as much as they did the tax collectors and other groups of people whom they deemed unworthy of God? Note the context that Mercy is more important to God than all of your legalist following of the letters of the law while overlooking the "weightier matters of the law".

You kind of quote Matthew 9:13 out of context and use your chosen translation which does not reflect the context. Yeshua's response was that he came to offer the "kingdom" to the tax gatherers and the sinners, as they need to confess their sins, and repent, and then produce fruit in line with their repentance, or else be "gathered" and "cut down" and thrown into the fire (Matthew 3:10). His message was to the "sick", that they might change their ways, or be tossed in the "fire". Those who support the Progressives, liars, thieves and murderers, the "sick" in their agendas, share responsibility for their actions. The judgment for the tares (weeds which look like wheat), can look forward to being thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30), and looking at the news, looking at the "fig tree" (Matthew 24:32), sooner rather than later.

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard this, He said, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. 13“But go and learn what this means: ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

 

[Windwalker]

Your personal subjective viewpoint with respect to your love trumping the Love of God

I subjectively experience the Love of God. That is not me saying my love trumps God's Love. Why on earth would you imagine I am saying that? What spirit is it that compels your thoughts like this?

As with most followers of Paul, they think that it is not them that commit evil, but the evil/devil within them does what they do not want to do

I'm not sure why you think I am a follower of Paul? But I will say this, you don't understand what he is saying in that verse, just as you don't understand what Jesus is saying either for likely the same reasons.

The answer is not to cut off body parts of children, letting felons out of prisons, allowing theft up to $1000 to go unprosecuted, and pushing immorality, which appears to be in line with the progressive way of "mercy". Being crazy, and showing mercy are two different things.

You certainly seem obsessed with this. You're very filled with anxieties about dark demons you wish to brand other humans beings as a collective group with. Kind of like what you see with the Nazis branding all Jews as dark forces working against the Aryan race. Different face, same demon.

It's no wonder Grace is such a threat to you. It threatens your hatred of others which you cling to for power over your own fears of a lack of power. Are you sure you understand what Christianity is about?