Which evolved first, consciousness or senses

[Madhuri]

They are terms I like to use but your probably right. What I mean by awareness is simple awareness without the memory or being in the now. We have the ability to react to stimuli and not be conscious of it, many animals would be in a state of non-consciousness even if they seem aware. Cause I don't figure most animals can fathom what "now" entails. So I feel there is a conscious and non-conscious types of awareness.

Are you perhaps talking about the difference between awareness and self-awareness?
Not sure I agree that most animals are unconscious (unless you are referring to insects and such). They might not be able to conceptualise things the way that we do, but there are things that they are very aware of. Self-awareness though is another story.

 

[idav]

Are you perhaps talking about the difference between awareness and self-awareness?
Not sure I agree that most animals are unconscious (unless you are referring to insects and such). They might not be able to conceptualise things the way that we do, but there are things that they are very aware of. Self-awareness though is another story.

Not to say they are unconscious but rather non-conscious. I think of unconscious as asleep or more like sedated when going into surgery, non-conscious would be more like a zombie, a walking vegetable.

 

[Milton Platt]

Senses without consciousness has no value, similarly consciousness without senses has no value.

How senses and consciousness evolved simultaneously, was it due to plan or just happened by chance?

Since consciousness is the ability to be aware of your surroundings to some degree and senses are needed at some level to sense your surroundings it would seem to be evident that they evolved together.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I think this is a really good question. The question of how consciousness exists in humans is very complicated and difficult to answer, and science hasn't been able to come up with a definitive answer so far to explain how consciousness exists.

 

[atanu]

..... I think of unconscious as asleep or more like sedated when going into surgery, non-conscious would be more like a zombie, a walking vegetable.

That is waking state superimposition on a state our mind knows nothing about. If we knew we would know the knower of mind.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Since consciousness is the ability to be aware of your surroundings to some degree and senses are needed at some level to sense your surroundings it would seem to be evident that they evolved together.

I agree with this.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I think this is a really good question. The question of how consciousness exists in humans is very complicated and difficult to answer, and science hasn't been able to come up with a definitive answer so far to explain how consciousness exists.

It exists because interaction is fundamental and evolutionary change is inevitable. A complex form of interaction...that is consciousness.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It exists because interaction is fundamental and evolutionary change is inevitable. A complex form of interaction...that is consciousness.

What is the basis of your claim? That is, what about interaction and evolutionary change makes it so that consciousness is a necessary emergent property?

 

[LuisDantas]

Senses without consciousness has no value, similarly consciousness without senses has no value.

How senses and consciousness evolved simultaneously, was it due to plan or just happened by chance?

Even very simple cells that give no hint of consciousness have senses. Senses are actually very simple in function and workings.

 

[FearGod]

Even very simple cells that give no hint of consciousness have senses. Senses are actually very simple in function and workings.

@idav

What do you think the result would be if the senses evolved while consciousnesses didn't, do you think
the organisms would survived and evolved?

 

[idav]

@idav

What do you think the result would be if the senses evolved while consciousnesses didn't, do you think
the organisms would survived and evolved?

Yeah it can survive. The result is zombie, walking vegatables. The most that would have evolved is the awareness of a plant.. Consciousness obviously gives humans an advantage, an advantage that didn't just pop up overnight.

 

[idav]

What is the basis of your claim? That is, what about interaction and evolutionary change makes it so that consciousness is a necessary emergent property?

Thats what life shows evidence for, going from simple to extremely more complex. That isn't supposed to happen except that life appears to be "striving" for something, for lack of a good term..

 

[FearGod]

Yeah it can survive. The result is zombie, walking vegatables. The most that would have evolved is the awareness of a plant.. Consciousness obviously gives humans an advantage, an advantage that didn't just pop up overnight.

So when do you think it started to pop up?

 

[idav]

So when do you think it started to pop up?

When life started emerging from waters I imagine.

 

[idav]

The stage was set once multi-cellular life started forming.

 

[FearGod]

The stage was set once multi-cellular life started forming.

Do you think consciousness evolved separately from the senses but it happened that both worked in harmony?

 

[idav]

Do you think consciousness evolved separately from the senses but it happened that both worked in harmony?

They don't happen to work in harmony, consciousness is dependent on sensory, but also dependent on other things like memory and recall.

I can't imagine how much power the brain uses to keep real-time sensory of our environment. Not just storing memories but being able to envision the past to the present ,as one moment, is all recall.

 

[atanu]

When life started emerging from waters I imagine.

The stage was set once multi-cellular life started forming.

These are imaginations and thoughts based upon consciousness.

Have you ever considered the fact that without an unchanging substratum of consciousness, the changes in forms-names-designs will not be known? Have you even opened up your mind to the possibility that consciousness may be like gold, using which millions of ornaments can be made? Have you examined the possibility of consciousness being like all pervading sunlight illuminating all forms. Have you considered that consciousness may be a level deeper beyond mind, where thoughts come up and go?

Have you ever opened your mind to the possibility that like a bangle as a design is distinct from gold, the mind may be distinct from consciousness. To this consciousness we go to every night, dissolving our mental shapes.

Because this thread was begun by 'FearGod', I quote from holy Quran:

"It is God that takes the souls at death, and those that die not during their sleep. He keeps that (soul) for which He hath ordained death and dismisseth the rest till an appointed term. Verily in this are signs for those who reflect." --39:42

And it is Allah, who being nearest to us, is the Seer and Knower.

“There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer”
...........

The very idea that consciousness was created at a point in time is an unexamined idea. The idea that the created materials-shapes have their own separate consciousness is another un-examined assumption.

If our consciousness and knowledge faculty were born of some process then that process controls everything about us and we cannot claim any objectivity.

...

 

[FearGod]

They don't happen to work in harmony, consciousness is dependent on sensory, but also dependent on other things like memory and recall.

I can't imagine how much power the brain uses to keep real-time sensory of our environment. Not just storing memories but being able to envision the past to the present ,as one moment, is all recall.

And those things has to happen while we grow, a baby won't be afraid from seeing a lion for example..

 

[Altfish]

Can we have an "other" option in the poll please, I'd like to vote but none of the options is correct.