Which evolved first, the skull or the brain?

[FearGod]

Still far from perfect. What you have demonstrated is that they are functional and useful for the human world, but of course far from perfect.

This is leading to a bogus argument for 'Intelligent Design.'

Then make a better human, I think you have a brain better than the stones.

 

[FearGod]

There is a big difference between working perfectly and working 'well enough'. Evolution works 'well enough' and does so by adapting whatever is available to do the job, even if not perfect for that job.

If we have only one leg instead of 2 then it would be imperfect job, if we have a mouth without
teeth then it would be imperfect job, if man have penis and woman doesn't have a vagina then
it would be imperfect job, if you don't have eyes to see then it would be imperfect job, if you
don't have ears to listen then it would be imperfect job, if and if and if ......

Our brains fit inside of our skulls because our skulls grow around our brains. Have you ever seen the head of a newborn?The skull plates have not yet merged together. In the development, the skull gets the message on where to grow from the underlying tissues surrounding the brain.

And how our skulls evolved along with our brains simultaneously during millions of years
of evolution.

 

[Polymath257]

If we have only one leg instead of 2 then it would be imperfect job, if we have a mouth without
teeth then it would be imperfect job, if man have penis and woman doesn't have a vagina then
it would be imperfect job, if you don't have eyes to see then it would be imperfect job, if you
don't have ears to listen then it would be imperfect job, if and if and if ......

So, for you, perfection is the same as workable?

And how our skulls evolved along with our brains simultaneously during millions of years
of evolution.

Already answered. They evolve together. Each grows based on signals from the other. How they grow is dependent on the genes regulating growth. But the details are always outside of genetic control and are based on interactions. So, in each individual, they grow together. Genes adjust overall patterns of growth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If we have only one leg instead of 2 then it would be imperfect job, if we have a mouth without
teeth then it would be imperfect job, if man have penis and woman doesn't have a vagina then
it would be imperfect job, if you don't have eyes to see then it would be imperfect job, if you
don't have ears to listen then it would be imperfect job, if and if and if ......



And how our skulls evolved along with our brains simultaneously during millions of years
of evolution.

We don't have wings to fly with, so by your standards that is an imperfect job. We don't have gills to breathe in water, so by your standards that is an imperfect job. Using strawman arguments and very poor logic is an attempt not to accept reality.

 

[Polymath257]

If we have only one leg instead of 2 then it would be imperfect job,

We have 2 instead of 4. Is that an imperfect job?

if we have a mouth without
teeth then it would be imperfect job,

Are those animals with mouths but no teeth imperfect?

if man have penis and woman doesn't have a vagina then
it would be imperfect job,

How about those animals that change gender during their lives? Are we imperfect because we don't?

if you don't have eyes to see then it would be imperfect job,

We cannot see infrared or ultraviolet (and other animals can). Is that an imperfect job?

if you
don't have ears to listen then it would be imperfect job, if and if and if ......

We cannot hear ultrasound (and other animals can). Is that an imperfect job?

Your idea of 'perfection' seems to be the same as 'works well enough', which is precisely what is expected out of evolution.

 

[ChristineM]

Human evolved with bigger skull that can be better deformed and allowing for the brain to get bigger,
compared to other primates.

Did the skull evolved first to get bigger and next the brain?
Did the brain evolved first to grow bigger then next the skull?
Did both evolved simultaneously؟

Do you think that both were designed to be fixed in place or it just happened
that both evolved simultaneously and it was perfect?

Skull increases (and decreases) as the brain needs to grow (or shrink), its a symbiotic relationship.

Re shrinking : My avatar is a cro magnon skull, 25000 (ish) years ago the human brain was 10 to 13% larger than the brain of modern humans. The skull was correspondingly larger, both brain and skull have shrunk in that time.

 

[FearGod]

So, for you, perfection is the same as workable?

The nature consists of unconscious raw materials, you have a brain that can analyze and
think, what about you make a better human as you're smarter than the stones.

Already answered. They evolve together. Each grows based on signals from the other. How they grow is dependent on the genes regulating growth. But the details are always outside of genetic control and are based on interactions. So, in each individual, they grow together. Genes adjust overall patterns of growth.

Evolution works by random mutations and natural selection, how tissues of the skull
and the brain mutated all together in harmony to evolve with a bigger skull and a bigger brain that fit in place,

 

[FearGod]

We have 2 instead of 4. Is that an imperfect job?

No for us it wouldn't be perfect to walk on 4

Are those animals with mouths but no teeth imperfect?

No, for us it wouldn't be perfect

How about those animals that change gender during their lives? Are we imperfect because we don't?

No, for us it wouldn't be perfect.

We cannot see infrared or ultraviolet (and other animals can). Is that an imperfect job?

Even though it isn't that significant but as usual the atheists just want to prove that
humans were made by the unconscious stones, try and try silly excuses
Human eye can see 'invisible' infrared light

We cannot hear ultrasound (and other animals can). Is that an imperfect job?

We don't need to hear the ultrasound, so still our ears are perfect for us.

Your idea of 'perfection' seems to be the same as 'works well enough', which is precisely what is expected out of evolution.

Make a better human, you're smarter than the stones of the nature.

 

[sealchan]

Human evolved with bigger skull that can be better deformed and allowing for the brain to get bigger,
compared to other primates.

Did the skull evolved first to get bigger and next the brain?
Did the brain evolved first to grow bigger then next the skull?
Did both evolved simultaneously؟

Do you think that both were designed to be fixed in place or it just happened
that both evolved simultaneously and it was perfect?

If you look out across the world of life you see that size is an easy adjustment for life forms to make. Just last night I was watching an episode of a show about people who pursue a subsistence living in Alaska. One family was out picking salmonberries. They grew as fat orange berries on a low growing mat. Where I live which is much warmer salmonberries are a tall shrub growing over ones head.

Studies of species evolution when isolated on islands shows that plant or animal size changes rapidly in response to environmental limitations.

Evolution has brute force engineered a design for life so subtle and flexible it looks random but we haven't understood it fully yet.

 

[Jose Fly]

Human evolved with bigger skull that can be better deformed and allowing for the brain to get bigger,
compared to other primates.

Did the skull evolved first to get bigger and next the brain?
Did the brain evolved first to grow bigger then next the skull?
Did both evolved simultaneously؟

Do you think that both were designed to be fixed in place or it just happened
that both evolved simultaneously and it was perfect?

Are you asking because you're genuinely interested in the answer, or is it more that you think you've found something that will "stump the evolutionists"?

 

[FearGod]

Are you asking because you're genuinely interested in the answer, or is it more that you think you've found something that will "stump the evolutionists"?

If the evolutionists can explain it then that would be great regardless of the reason behind this thread.

 

[shunyadragon]

Then make a better human, I think you have a brain better than the stones.

Odd egocentric statement. No one as far as I know proposes in this thread to make a better human, though through medical technology and science we are improving the human being.

 

[shunyadragon]

Odd egocentric statement. No one as far as I know proposes in this thread to make a better human, though through medical technology and science we are improving the human being.

We all have brains!?!?! What is the point of this ridiculous statement!

The point still stands humans are physically far from perfect.

 

[Jose Fly]

If the evolutionists can explain it then that would be great

Why?

 

[Revoltingest]

Brain first cuz it preceded skeleton.
I know.
I was there then.

 

[FearGod]

Odd egocentric statement. No one as far as I know proposes in this thread to make a better human, though through medical technology and science we are improving the human being.

What kind of improvements?

 

[FearGod]

Why?

Because it's a puzzle and I didn't see yet a sensible answer.

 

[Segev Moran]

Human evolved with bigger skull that can be better deformed and allowing for the brain to get bigger,
compared to other primates.

Did the skull evolved first to get bigger and next the brain?
Did the brain evolved first to grow bigger then next the skull?
Did both evolved simultaneously؟

Do you think that both were designed to be fixed in place or it just happened
that both evolved simultaneously and it was perfect?

Evolution describes a very slow process.
It wasn't like you imagine that the skull became big in a few years and then the brain filled it up.
In short, there was a need for the human ape to evolve in order to better survive.
What allowed the skull to get bigger was a weaker jaw muscles that slowly, very very slowly allowed the skull to become bigger.
The evolution of the brain was either an outcome or a cause, but regardless, the process was happening little bit each generation.

We assume there were several homo eractus with more evolved brains than the human apes, homo-sapiens happened to be the ones who managed to overcome all the others.

the brain was an evolution of the surroundings based on the evolution theory.
as humans slowly learned to control their thumbs, they were able to discover new ways to use tools (rocks, sticks and such).
As the "motorics" became better, the brain inevitably became better.

Looking at the process described by evolution, it is without a doubt a remarkable thing and imo too remarkable to be a collection of circumstances.

We only have a drop out of a sea of knowledge regarding the human brain. so i guess this question is far too complex to answer scientifically these days.

It is however, regardless of one's belief or not, a process that had and still have a "power" supplier that motivates it all. the question is where does this "force" comes from?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Human evolved with bigger skull that can be better deformed and allowing for the brain to get bigger,
compared to other primates.

Did the skull evolved first to get bigger and next the brain?
Did the brain evolved first to grow bigger then next the skull?
Did both evolved simultaneously؟

Do you think that both were designed to be fixed in place or it just happened
that both evolved simultaneously and it was perfect?

The human skull doesn't begin to harden until after the brain has stopped growing to ensure a proper fit. Any genetic mutation that would result in the skull either hardening prematurely or continuing growing after the brain has stopped growing would almost certainly result in death. Thus such a negative genetic mutation is rarely if ever passed on. It is only those genes that enable a skull to stop growing and harden once the brain has stopped growing that get passed along to offspring.

 

[Polymath257]

The nature consists of unconscious raw materials, you have a brain that can analyze and
think, what about you make a better human as you're smarter than the stones.

Stones are not alive: they tend to be chemically inert, unlike living things.

Evolution works by random mutations and natural selection, how tissues of the skull
and the brain mutated all together in harmony to evolve with a bigger skull and a bigger brain that fit in place,

Once again, the growth instructions typically amount to "grow in one way until you find this in your environment and then either stop or grow a different way". So, the brain grows to fill the skull available. No special instructions are required if the skull is larger.