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Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?

Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Thief said:
true enough science stops at the point of singularity.....
and that point is described as 'something'......

do you consider the 'void' as nothing?
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I don't know what "the point of singularity" is, so I cannot disagree, but "void" is certainly a word that represents something. All words do.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Willamena said:
I don't know what "the point of singularity" is, so I cannot disagree, but "void" is certainly a word that represents something. All words do.
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I would flip that over.....

the singularity would be ALL of this universe in one location.
and science speaks of infinity while attempting a description.

void however.....
no location.....nowhere to come from and nowhere to go...
no light no shadow
no heat no cold
no sound no echo
no touch....

nothing to think about

so there is one mystery....how to say....I AM!
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Thief said:
I would flip that over.....

the singularity would be ALL of this universe in one location.
and science speaks of infinity while attempting a description.

void however.....
no location.....nowhere to come from and nowhere to go...
no light no shadow
no heat no cold
no sound no echo
no touch....

nothing to think about

so there is one mystery....how to say....I AM!
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From my perspective, ALL is mind. Both location and its negation are thought. The idea that beyond that is nothing is thought.
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Willamena said:
From my perspective, ALL is mind. Both location and its negation are thought. The idea that beyond that is nothing is thought.
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well, many believe God is thought and feeling without a body......a Spirit....
but they also believe He is everywhere all at once....

not sure if I buy all of that.
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
ben d said:
This is a science and religion forum......not philosophy...

The answer to the OP question of whether it is possible for something to come from nothing, in the absence of any rational evidence of the existence of nothing, is that it can't...and anything to the contrary is mere speculation.. Now I am not debating the idea of post big bang universal expansion, I am debating the idea that something can come from nothing... Now science claims it does not know how and it does not know why, but the universe just suddenly emerged from a non-existent state 13.7 billion... and also expect people to believe it without a shred of direct evidence within 388,000 years of time = 0 .

If as you say though, there is a possibility of there being something preexisting time = 0, then it is no something from nothing and I am not debating that...it is only the something from nothing idea...
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I don't know why I even bother replying to you.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Thief said:
as in destroyed?
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No, though perhaps. Negated with the idea of "not."

gotta have it before you can lose it.
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As soon you as you have it, in that same instant you also have the capacity to lose it.

They come into existence together.

I prefer an order to te scheme of things....
Spirit first....then creation.
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Order is the scheme of things, that hasn't changed by anything I suggest.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
If what is real stands apart from concepts, what does that say about the concept "reality?"
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It merely means...bearing in mind that I must of necessity use conceptual language as an expedient to convey it...that actual reality is on the other side of the concept 'reality'.. That is why science, using mathematics, can only create mental constructs to represent aspects of the reality under study...and never realize the reality itself...
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
gnostic said:
I don't know why I even bother replying to you.
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You do not...you are running away....and when you do reply...you either obfuscate, misdirect, cuss....anything but engage me reasonably on the specific points I raise about how something can not come from nothing..
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
gnostic said:
Again, you like to rely on people, who cannot provide any evidences for the existence of a Designer, Creator or God being involve in any way with his supposed DESIGN or CREATION...just MORE of circular reasoning and apologetic babbles.
Wenlong He, like Flew, is using circular reasoning and wishful thinking in regarding to the DESIGNER. Wishes and irrational logic are not evidences, URAVIP2ME.
What I am seeing, with your new example, is that Wenlong is making a leap of faith that there might be an "external agent". That's his personal opinion and superstition, not science.
Until you can provide scientists who can actually verifiable and conclusive evidences, your own credibility is waning even more than you last post on Flew.
Why do you on insisting bringing me to attention of people who use wishful thinking and logic fallacies in their arguments?
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Isn't nature/creation evidence ?
A biotechnologist Dr. Hans Kristaian Kotlar at the Norwegian Radium Hospital it seemed reasonable to him that only an intelligent Source of energy could account for the order in the universe. Could the immune system originate in a mindless manner ? The more he studied the immune system the more he realized how complex and effective it is which led him to conclude that life is a product of intelligence. He thinks the power and sophistication of our immune system points to intelligence.

Where there is intelligence, there is a mind, where there is a mind there is a person, and where there is a person there is a personality.
 
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