Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, except for the autonomous nervous system. That carries on its work according to its plan.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes, except for the autonomous nervous system. That carries on its work according to its plan.

So the cosmos is the primary cause of intelligence...yes?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I never said that. Of course, the cosmos is the cause of all things that happen in the universe. Is that not saying that 'universe is the cause of universe', etc.?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I never said that.

So if it is not the sensory inputs that are the primary cause of organizing the chemical and electrical impulses you say is intelligence...then that only leave the autonomous nervous system..yes?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Now when did I say that? I said exactly the opposite that the chain of rections begins with sensory inputs. Even the autonomous system works on inputs. Only that it does not go to the other part except in an emergency (like making me realize half the way up that that I cannot climb the 360 steps of Qutub Minar on one run, I will need to rest).

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes.

So what organized the autonomous nervous system if it was not from sensory input from the cosmos?

 

[Aupmanyav]

See the correction in my last post. I read your post wrong. The autonomous system is instituted by evolution. The shrews got it, then the chimps got it, then the humans got it. All animals have it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

See the correction in my last post. I read your post wrong. The autonomous system is instituted by evolution. The shrews got it, then the chimps got it, then the humans got it. All animals have it.

Ok...then....where did the input come from in evolution that was responsible for organizing the institution of the autonomous nervous system?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Again chemical reactions and electrical impulses, right from the time there were Cynobacteria/Eubacteria (whatever was the first living organism) over some 3.75 billion years till we reached the state we are in.

Oh, you are trying to guillotine me step by step, made into small pieces, starting from the feet and going up. I am game, only that my % of likes/total posts will come down drastically.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Again chemical reactions and electrical impulses, right from the time there were Cynobacteria/Eubacteria (whatever was the first living organism) over some 3.75 billion years till we reached the state we are in.
?
Oh, you are trying to guillotine me step by step.

Haha...ve haf veys of making you talk... did Cynobacteria/Eubacteria's chemical and electrical impulses originate from sensory inputs or did the said bacteria already have an elementary autonomous nervous system?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Welcome, try. Chemical and electrical impulses, even the cells have it. That is how WBC attack invaders - and sometimes even make mistakes. These were first without walls, cell walls developed later. (Prokaryotes came up earlier than Eukaryotes - Wikipedia)

Proto-cell
Scheme of a micelle spontaneously formed by phospholipids in an aqueous solution.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Welcome, try. Chemical and electrical impulses, even the cells have it. That is how WBC attack invaders - and sometimes even make mistakes. These were first without walls, cell walls developed later. (Prokaryotes came up earlier than Eukaryotes - Wikipedia)

View attachment 12824Proto-cell
Scheme of a micelle spontaneously formed by phospholipids in an aqueous solution.

I am not sure if that answers my question...it seems you did not make clear whether or not the bacteria's chemical and electrical impulses originated from sensory input from outside? Though at this stage of evolution, it seems it is sufficiently complex to self generate chemical and electrical impulses akin to an elementary 'autonomous nervous system'?

.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. it seems you did not make clear whether or not the bacteria's chemical and electrical impulses originated from sensory input from outside?

Yes, by the time complex molecules changed into bacteria, they were fully living organisms (though I do not know whether they had souls or not ), reacting to impulses from their environment. It is the second image in my previous post indicating what may have happened earlier than that - molecules which responded to their environment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocell

 

[Ouroboros]

Yes, by the time complex molecules changed into bacteria, they were fully living organisms, reacting to impulses from their environment. It is the second image in my previous post indicating what may have happened earlier than that - molecules which responded to their environment.

What's interesting here, to me at least, is that the molecules are interacting with other molecules. Somehow, the emerging consciousness comes about from the interaction of molecules interacting with other molecules. Somehow, consciousness exists in the border or line just between those things, the interaction itself, because, at least I wouldn't call the molecules themselves to be conscious. It's what happens when they're interacting.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sure, it is very interesting. It is a gradient which culminated in our five senses and brain (mind/consciousness), and took about 4 billion years to happen.

 

[allfoak]

All cells have their own intelligence and all of the organs also have their own specialized collective intelligence particular to the function of the organ.
There must be some level of consciousness that exists within this intelligence.
The next step would be learning to communicate with this consciousness in order to facilitate a healing environment for every part to function as it should.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The next step would be learning to communicate with this consciousness in order to facilitate a healing environment for every part to function as it should.

Yeah, we do that. When we feel hungry, we look for food. We are communicating with the body through the stomach.

 

[allfoak]

Yeah, we do that. When we feel hungry, we look for food. We are communicating with the body through the stomach.

Imagine what we could accomplish if we understood what we are doing when we eat and then do that for all of our organs.
The stomach seems to be a bit more intelligent than some of the others, it knows how to get our conscious attention.
Most of the others are not able to do that except through the nervous system in the form of pain, and many times they fail to do that until it is too late.

It is important to be aware and involved with the community within.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yeah, we do that. When we feel hungry, we look for food. We are communicating with the body through the stomach.

Kind'a what bacteria does.

 

[Thief]

All cells have their own intelligence and all of the organs also have their own specialized collective intelligence particular to the function of the organ.
There must be some level of consciousness that exists within this intelligence.
The next step would be learning to communicate with this consciousness in order to facilitate a healing environment for every part to function as it should.

you can do this?....self heal by will?