Spiderman
Veteran Member
There is much speculation that Marian apparitions are actually the Resurrection of Diana or one of the Mother Goddesses
Mary - Goddess and Saint
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Which Goddess is Mary?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Mary - Goddess and Saint
Please tell that to vast segments of the Catholic Church. The Marians don't seem to get it.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Yes, there is much speculation that she is the Resurrection of Diana the"Mother Goddess"
You are siting a very conservative source. The position of the Church on Mary is;
For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.
What Mary does for the salvation of the human family does not come from her own power, but from a gift of divine grace that is bestowed on her through her Son. All the salvific influence that she bestows on us is produced "not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it."38 Mary in no way replaces Christ. Rather, her role is to bring us to Christ, as is illustrated in Mary's admonition at the wedding feast of Cana, "Do whatever he tells you" (Jn 2:5).
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Some would argue that God is obedient to the commandment "honor thy Father and Mother" and therefore, God is obedient to his mother.
We see evidence of this at the wedding of Cana where Christ didn't want to work the miracle at the wedding of Cana but did it in obedience to his mother's request.
I do agree that Catholics go overboard with Marian devotion however, and I think many will leave the Church if "mediatrix of all grace" becomes a Dogma.
If the Pope defines such a Dogma, he is giving a lot of fuel to anticatholics. Who knows though, it could possibly be true. I try to keep an open mind.
Fair enough, but that is not exactly christian orthodox thinking, now is it?
There will be at least a chance of it being perceived as syncretism (which, again, is fair).
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
Not at all, but this isn't a Christian site , so I thought I'd ask.
Speaking of Christians, some Protestant groups believe Catholicism is Pagan and that the Virgin Mary of the Catholic Church is indeed the Resurrection of one of the more ancient Mother Goddesses.
I thought Protestants did not believe in the existence of Pagan deities?
Spiderman
Veteran Member
They believe in them, they just believe they are Demons or malevolent spirits
Ok, thanks.
Out of curiosity, have you heard of Shaktism? Or by a different perspective, of the syncretism in Brazil between Mary and Yemanjá?
Shaktism - Wikipedia
Yemoja - Wikipedia
Out of curiosity, have you heard of Shaktism? Or by a different perspective, of the syncretism in Brazil between Mary and Yemanjá?
Shaktism - Wikipedia
Yemoja - Wikipedia
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I've heard of Shaktism but know next to nothing about it and not Yemoja. I'll be sure to read about that.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
What were some of the signs the Goddess left you if you don't mind me asking. I only ask because I find that the spirit world speaks in dreams, coincidence, visions, and sometimes ways that seem bizarre, silly, and irrational. I'm just wondering if that is your experience with the Goddess.
Perhaps. But it seems to me that very few historical events are quite so cut-and-dried. In practice, events tend to have several causes that often influence the time of their consequences more than simply whether they will eventually happen or not.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
True!
There are multiple factors, but the Fatima apparitions called for prayer, fasting, and penance for the fall of communism , and she asked for the consecration of Russia to her immaculate heart. It was a huge phenomenon that converted a lot of people.
There have been several movies and documentaries made about it and a lot of people live the message. I can't think of a public miracle witnessed by so many people with the prophecy in advance that at this specific time and place there will be a sign for all to see.
The Religious fervor following the apparitions certainly weakened communism.
Also, the government kidnapped the seers , threatened them with death, and put them in an adult jail. They stuck with their story. I don't believe all this could be mass hallucinating. The media was present with many atheists , Freemasons, and marxists, who gave testimony of what they saw with some 70000 people.
Well Abrahamic religions never wanted to recognize any woman as a supreme divinity (someone has to wash the dishes), but Mariolatry happens exactly because people have a need of a female side of God. Some say the female side is the Holy Spirit, others that is the Shekhinah, etc. Because female energy just feels different.
Abstract notions of God, not human, not female or male, may be closer to the truth, but people need human ways of communication with their Deity or deities. We're still limited beings in our non-enlightened, human incarnation.
A few years ago she revealed to me in a very loving way that she's the same as Isis too.
Guys! One thing is orthodoxy and another thing is the truth! You may believe orthodoxy describes the truth. I don't believe it and I'm not really planning to change your minds about it.
My belief is there is a couple of gods; a goddess and a god, powerful spirit kings, who take care of the World. They have appeared in different shapes, sometimes as a husband and wife, sometimes as mother and son... and different cultures created different myths for them. Semiramis and Tammuz, Isis and Horus, Krishna and Radha, Shiva and Shakti, Dianus and Diana, etc. They're always the same (not all couples of gods are them though; I think Odin and Frigg are other persons).
They rarely come if they aren't called; they normally let us live our masochistic fantasies here in the "Matrix", except when they think they absolutely have to intervene: i.e. when a global disaster is happening. That's why some UFOs deactivated nukes. And that's why we shouldn't worry about a nuclear war, an alien invasion or a big meteorite. Until the couple thinks it's game over for Mankind, but as most of us didn't evolve enough to win the "physical game" yet, I doubt that will happen very soon.
I once asked the Horned god what is his true appearance, independently of myths, human cultures, etc. He answered me with thoughts that he has no "true appearance". "The most you could understand as a human is the appearance of a star". I prefer human appearances anyway. They make communication easier in dreams, trance, etc.
Maybe it seems so if you focus online on gender, but without a solid grounding in the religion there should be some research done. Mary is symbolically important in Orthodox and other churches without being a Goddess, so its good to ask what she is. It is important not to presume why Mary exists and call it an argument. Mary is Mary until proven otherwise. Best guess is that symbolically Mary (the mother of Jesus) represents Judaism while Jesus represents the Church, because the Church considers itself the heir of Judaism. This is a guess, and I prefer that when people make guesses in debates that they say so. Now you said something about Shekinah, and I will comment on that.
The term Shekinah is Hebrew or Aramaic, and it has feminine gender. I do not speak Hebrew, but that is something I have been told and which is common knowledge. What I have heard is that in gospels the term 'Holy Spirit' may be a reference to Shekinah or it may not. There is not a Jewish verse which calls it exactly the same thing as the term 'Holy Spirit' is translated from Greek not Hebrew. What I gather is the Shekinah has qualities like light but also like air, however it seems a spiritual concept not a physical one. Shekinah goes everywhere by various means. It goes into your lungs as well as into your eyes to reveal what is inside. It goes down into the oceans and into holes in the ground. When you smell something the Shekinah reveals what you smell. It is not a science item however. It is a moral item and relates to something other than science. Without the help of the Shekinah you are blind spiritually, even if physically you see. Jesus is symbolically represented by light in the gospel of John who reveals what is good or bad, so possibly he is the Shekinah symbolically. The gender of the term Shekinah does not appear to have a lot of importance. If Jesus or Mary represents Shekinah, then it is probably Jesus who represents Shekinah. My money is on Jesus. If you make Mary the Shekinah and not Jesus then you divorce from the usage in the gospel John. You could consistently make them both represent the Shekinah, Jesus and Mary together but not Mary without Jesus.
Jesus is not a proper deity or is not from the start. You can make an innovation and decide that he ought to be. That is up to you. It is in that case a choice of how you wish to view Jesus. The same goes for Mary.
There is a lot of symbolism in that painting that symbolize her status in heaven, as someone mentioned the moon, plus she is standing on it symbolizing being above. She is covering the sun, another sign and an angel is actually holding her up. The cloak symbolizes the wearing of the heavens with its little stars. Any of those things alone would be coincidence but all of them together show that Mary has power and status in the heavens.There's just something about Mary. More hail Mary's are prayed every day throughout the world than any other prayer. She has worked more documented miracles than any other Goddess. It is as though the Mother Goddess has emerged despite the attempts of monotheists to destroy devotion to her. Which Godess do you think Mary is or do you think they take turns at disguising themselves as her?
At Lourdes Mary appeared to Saint Bernadette and a miraculous spring took place. A medical Bureau investigates the healings
"To be regarded as authentic, claims have to satisfy four requirements:
Healings at Lourdes
- the illness and cure was well documented,
- the illness was serious and was unable to be effectively treated,
- the symptoms disappeared within hours, and
- the healing lasted for sufficient time to ensure the ‘cure’ was not just a temporary remission (e.g. in the case of leukemia, 10 years is required)."
Mary appeared in Fatima Portugal where she told some children about the rise of communism in Russia and the spread of Russia's errors throughout the world. She also spoke of the coming of world war 2. Both predictions of the shepherd children came true. On October 13, 1917 she promised a miracle. A crowd of roughly 70,000 people gathered with communists, freemasons, atheists, and media present. They testified that they saw this:
Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia
Mary appeared to Juan Diego (An Aztec Indian) as an Indian girl. She left her image on his tilma. This lead to the conversion of the Aztecs to Catholicism. The image cannot be reproduced and there is no indication that it is a painting. When examining the fibers there is no dye or paint. There is no other conclusion but that the image is miraculously there.
Anyway, if you don't believe these miracles and apparitions took place by the Mother of God, which Goddess do you think is responsible for resurrecting as Mary?
Anyway, happy feast of the nativity of Mary (Sep 8)
Our Lady of Guadalupe - Symbolism of the Image
I don't really believe the stories either but they remain some of the more compelling I think.
That's that sense of the wholly Other that every culture has expressed in one way or the other.
No matter what we choose to name this Mystery there is only one.
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