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Which is Less Severe, Judaism or Islam?
- Thread starter wizanda
- Start date
matthew_/!/
Member
AFAIK, a jew who converts to another belief will not be killed. So in my opinion Islam is more severe because if you convert away you can be killed, therefore I'd rather live under a Jewish legal system
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
All one has to do is compare life in Israel to life in any random Islamic country.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
From wikipedia:
The most common punishment for blasphemers was capital punishment through hanging or stoning, justified by the words of Leviticus 24:13-16.
Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Bring out of the camp the one who cursed, and let all who heard him lay their hands on his head, and let all the congregation stone him. And speak to the people of Israel, saying, Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death."
Judaism certainly, in its own texts, pay lip service to treating "aliens" well, but the majority of stories involve bloodshed.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Unless this is a comparison of Quranist vs Karaite Judaism, your post does not answer the OP.
That would be a good example, if Israel was fully practising Jewish Law, which currently they don't; meaning if they enforced their religious rules to the letter.
If the results are any indication, I would prefer Judaism every single time.When we examine the text, and laws that are in place, which is the most severe Judaism or Islam?
If you had to choose to live under one of these Law systems, which would you choose?
That does not necessarily mean that Judaism is less severe, though. I suspect the opposite to be true.
But at the end of the day Judaism is obviously a far better realized and less misguided religion, probably in no small amount due to a tradition of mutual respect and responsibility and a far better grasp of the concepts of respect, diversity of opinion and freedom.
I suppose having the courtesy of not assuming me to having been born a believer and needing to revert goes a long way towards hinting at that, too.
Why would or should any self-respecting religion make a point of following scripture to the letter without applying common sense and discernment, though?That would be a good example, if Israel was fully practising Jewish Law, which currently they don't; meaning if they enforced their religious rules to the letter.
True, and in a modern world, you'd think stoning people to death would be an international law; yet considering it still happens, what is to stop Judaism reestablishing it if they could.
Discernment on an individual level of right and wrong often goes out of the window, when a group mentality is involved.
rosends
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify, when discussing "Judaism" one should understand the full breadth of what Jewish law currently is and how it manifests as a system of life, even in a theoretical theocratic Jewish milieu. Taking text literally and/or in a vacuum will not represent Judaism. I don't know if the same could be said for any theocracy based in Islam -- if it is a written text mediated by a complementary oral law which moderates apparently barbaric directives.
Something other than law, as obviously is already the case.
Are you implying that it would be better if law made a point of disavowing that? I don't see why.
Discernment on an individual level of right and wrong often goes out of the window, when a group mentality is involved.
And there, too, Judaism is something of a gold standard.
Of course, stoning people to death is barbaric, and there are much better ways to apply capital punishment, even back then; it is like torturing someone to death, to prove a point.
Well, sure. But you did not answer my question.
Sorry i don't understand the question then, rephrase it please....
SpeaksForTheTrees
Well-Known Member
England/Europe used to have more severe laws of punishment than both . Dis emboweled , hung drawn the innards and quartered the body however that was more of a cleansing lol than punishment , cleansing by pain bloody barbaric if you ask me.
Stoning and beheading for girls .
Seriously though it is 2016 now , was all character building .
Stoning and beheading for girls .
Seriously though it is 2016 now , was all character building .
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Is it at all important if there are actual laws spelling out that stoning people to death is a bad thing?Sorry i don't understand the question then, rephrase it please....
It seems to me that law is what people resort to when disaster is already a done deal. A healthy society will have little need for laws, and most certainly will not depend on it to tell anyone what is despicable and cruel from what is not.
GodlessHeathen
Member
It's really easy to misinterpret this question because there is a big difference between what the law says and how individuals of the religion interpret and follow it. Remember that "law" isn't just simply a set of written rules with prescribed punishments for transgressing those rules. Those rules need interpretation to be applied to individual cases and Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have various branches that interpret the law differently. Very often, the followers of the religion will not only take direction from the explicit law, but from actions and deeds of certain key holy figures (Muhammad, Jesus, etc.). This creates a spectrum of orthodoxy from weak to moderate to fundamentalist/extremist.
I'm going to include Christianity in the OP because why not. Since in this case, Christianity and Islam have their roots in Judaism, their "law" is actually pretty similar for all three. If there is a difference in "brutality" (if such a thing could be objectively measured), it's probably negligible. However, there is a difference in modern day practice. Most of the barbaric laws in Christianity are confined to the Old Testament. Christians have the confusing position of saying the New Testament as brought to you by Jesus invalidates the old laws as it is a "new covenant". Yet, most will still insist on following those same old laws, in particular the Ten Commandments. Since Jesus was a relatively peaceful figure, Christianity has a more peaceful role model than, say, let's-go-conquer-some-cities Muhammad and his child brides. Christianity also mainly spread to the Western world which is the cradle of democracy, the Enlightenment, and liberal values. The laws of Western nations therefore influenced the interpretation of Christianity more than the reverse. An example is when slavery was rampant, Biblical interpretations were used to justify it. When slavery was outlawed in the British Empire, these Biblical interpretations changed. Now there is probably not a single Christian denomination that condones slavery on a Biblical basis.
Islam spread mainly to North Africa, the Middle East, and Central/Southern Asia. Areas that were prone to theocracy and authoritarianism and where many are impoverished and uneducated. These political and socioeconomic conditions are more likely to give rise to extremism than in the relatively stable Christian Western world. It's therefore quite unsurprising that Islam seems to be the more extreme of the three today seeing as these conditions haven't changed much over the centuries. Even the more "moderate" interpretations of Islam seem harsher than Christianity or Judaism.
Judaism is characterized by the long historical persecution of Jewish people who were stateless most of the time. Therefore, they had to live either under Christian or Islamic hegemony. In earlier days, the two options would be similarly unpalatable (to say the least). The Jews couldn't really afford to upset the apple cart too much with extremism because the penalty would likely be even more intense mass persecution. This seemingly had a moderating effect on the practice of Judaism. In more recent history with the creation of the state of Israel, a Jewish-majority state in an area where they are surrounded by very hostile neighbours has given rise to extremism as a counter-reaction. However, outside of Israel, Jewish extremism doesn't really seem to be an issue. The fact that there are relatively few Jews in the world compared to Christians or Muslims probably plays a role in that too.
Speaking as an atheist, if I had to choose between these three theocracies, I would prefer Christianity, then Judaism, then Islam. Personally, I would rather not be stoned to death or have my head chopped off. At least with the Christians, all I have to withstand is them bashing on my door at 8am trying to tell me about their Jesus pal.
I'm going to include Christianity in the OP because why not. Since in this case, Christianity and Islam have their roots in Judaism, their "law" is actually pretty similar for all three. If there is a difference in "brutality" (if such a thing could be objectively measured), it's probably negligible. However, there is a difference in modern day practice. Most of the barbaric laws in Christianity are confined to the Old Testament. Christians have the confusing position of saying the New Testament as brought to you by Jesus invalidates the old laws as it is a "new covenant". Yet, most will still insist on following those same old laws, in particular the Ten Commandments. Since Jesus was a relatively peaceful figure, Christianity has a more peaceful role model than, say, let's-go-conquer-some-cities Muhammad and his child brides. Christianity also mainly spread to the Western world which is the cradle of democracy, the Enlightenment, and liberal values. The laws of Western nations therefore influenced the interpretation of Christianity more than the reverse. An example is when slavery was rampant, Biblical interpretations were used to justify it. When slavery was outlawed in the British Empire, these Biblical interpretations changed. Now there is probably not a single Christian denomination that condones slavery on a Biblical basis.
Islam spread mainly to North Africa, the Middle East, and Central/Southern Asia. Areas that were prone to theocracy and authoritarianism and where many are impoverished and uneducated. These political and socioeconomic conditions are more likely to give rise to extremism than in the relatively stable Christian Western world. It's therefore quite unsurprising that Islam seems to be the more extreme of the three today seeing as these conditions haven't changed much over the centuries. Even the more "moderate" interpretations of Islam seem harsher than Christianity or Judaism.
Judaism is characterized by the long historical persecution of Jewish people who were stateless most of the time. Therefore, they had to live either under Christian or Islamic hegemony. In earlier days, the two options would be similarly unpalatable (to say the least). The Jews couldn't really afford to upset the apple cart too much with extremism because the penalty would likely be even more intense mass persecution. This seemingly had a moderating effect on the practice of Judaism. In more recent history with the creation of the state of Israel, a Jewish-majority state in an area where they are surrounded by very hostile neighbours has given rise to extremism as a counter-reaction. However, outside of Israel, Jewish extremism doesn't really seem to be an issue. The fact that there are relatively few Jews in the world compared to Christians or Muslims probably plays a role in that too.
Speaking as an atheist, if I had to choose between these three theocracies, I would prefer Christianity, then Judaism, then Islam. Personally, I would rather not be stoned to death or have my head chopped off. At least with the Christians, all I have to withstand is them bashing on my door at 8am trying to tell me about their Jesus pal.