Which is more important belief, knowledge or experience?

[gnostic]

Belief.

Hey, Jay.

For one who is naturalist, I would have thought experience would be your 1st choice.

But the duckies are cute!

Mmmmm. Yes, and they looked delicious too.

*horrified*

:sorry1: I just kiddin'; :biglaugh: I just couldn't resist it. I don't even like the taste of ducks.

 

[seed757]

For those that haven't seen it, this clip gives an excellent exercise on the idea of belief vs experience vs knowledge:

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/M/mindcontrol/trick/doll.html

Now after watching it, ask yourself if the woman had known what was going on prior to the experiment , would she still then believe her own experience?

I guess the same could be said for all of us as well, when it comes to matters of what it is we believe in and why.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hey, Jay.

For one who is naturalist, I would have thought experience would be your 1st choice.

Well, live and learn. Experience happens. Belief is chosen.

 

[darkpenguin]

i picked knowlege as without that the other two don't hold much ground and need knowlege to make them work!

 

[lilithu]

Experience happens. Belief is chosen.

Experience is interpreted.

 

[michel]

It has happened again!

When I come to a thread with a poll, I make my mind up on what I will vote, press the button (so to speak), and, expecting to find myself in the minority, am amased to find I go along with the majority result!

I said "Experience", because, I feel, that within the whole of life, knowledge is a record of someone else's experience. Now that's fine, when it come to making a car engine, I am going to take someone else's experience any day!:cover:

But in most facets of the abstract, I think that second hand experience counts for little (which is why we bumbling humans go through life making such a mess of it!), because we are gaining our own experience.

 

[Willamena]

In your own religious practice which is more important?

Belief

Knowledge

Experience

Belief, of course, since god cannot be known or experienced.

 

[michel]

Belief, of course, since god cannot be known or experienced.

god cannot be known or experienced

Don't you think you can 'know' God ? (I am not talking about how tall he is, or if he has a beard.....I am talking about "experiencing God's love" ?

 

[Willamena]

i don't understand why people who are religiously inclined feel the need to believe, if there was a god i'm sure they would wonder why people would rather believe than have an idea about something, belief is a very dangerous thing when it comes to religion, an idea about religion can be changed when it's proved to be wrong whereas a belief is harder to change even when it's proven to be wrong often with disasterous concequences!if people want to belive in religion then why not just have an idea about it, it makes sense!also i struggle to see why some people are religious sometimes, people tend to treat their respective religions as a burden rather than a blessing, again thats where the idea thing comes in!

I see where your misunderstanding comes from: belief is only in things that are true.

 

[Willamena]

Don't you think you can 'know' God ? (I am not talking about how tall he is, or if he has a beard.....I am talking about "experiencing God's love" ?

How would I know it from my own love?

 

[lilithu]

Belief, of course, since god cannot be known or experienced.

"Experience" refers both to sensory experience and to gnostic/mystic experience.

 

[Willamena]

"Experience" refers both to sensory experience and to gnostic/mystic experience.

I don't know what gnostic/mystic experience is.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I have limited experience with duckies, but my belief is that with more knowledge of them, I might change my vote in the poll.

OK...better answer before I quack myself up again.

I voted Belief because the desire to enhance my knowledge and gain experiences by taking action is driven by a deep abiding faith.:cross: All are important, but one sets the process in motion.

 

[lilithu]

I don't know what gnostic/mystic experience is.

Those brief moments when one experiences the transcendant, when one knows by direct experience, bypassing the filters of interpretation, that one is one with the universe / one with God.

In my view, it is the basis of all religion. And the doctrines/dogma/etc are just our attempts to explain this experience.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But doesn't knowledge sometimes come from experience?

What about someone who has knowledge, but no experience to back it up?

That is a good point. Knowledge can be gained through experience.

And so I voted for:

*BANG* Now wheres the dog at?

 

[Willamena]

Those brief moments when one experiences the transcendant, when one knows by direct experience, bypassing the filters of interpretation, that one is one with the universe / one with God.

In my view, it is the basis of all religion. And the doctrines/dogma/etc are just our attempts to explain this experience.

How is it possible to "bypass the filters of interpretation" that is our existence itself? I have had an experience of connection with the universe that was wonderous, but not (I'm told on this forum) terribly uncommon. I didn't associate it with a religous experience at the time, and it was only much later when I was reading about religious experiences that I realised that it might be what a lot of people found their belief in. But how can we say that it, too, is not interpreted?

 

[Hacker]

I would have to say experience first because experience yields knowledge and knowledge doesn't yield experience, right?

 

[YmirGF]

Well this is certainly a tough riddle to quack.

Knowledge and belief without experience is merely theory. I have told younger folks on loads of occaisions that the only difference between us is that I have had more opportunities to make mistakes and hopefully learn from those mistakes. Direct experience separates the wheat from the chaff, as it were. Experience works like a putty knife filling in the gaps in knowledge. If knowledge were enough by itself, none of us would need any experience. Experience also shows us where our beliefs are correct or unsubstantiated speculations. Otoh, I don't know how many times I have wondered if a given person was EVER going to learn from their experience, as I watched them continually repeat the same mistakes.

I voted for the ducks.

 

[lilithu]

How is it possible to "bypass the filters of interpretation" that is our existence itself? I have had an experience of connection with the universe that was wonderous, but not (I'm told on this forum) terribly uncommon. I didn't associate it with a religous experience at the time, and it was only much later when I was reading about religious experiences that I realised that it might be what a lot of people found their belief in. But how can we say that it, too, is not interpreted?

Interpretation happens when the observer and the observed are separate. Direct experience, without the filters of interpretation, happens when for those brief moments we realize/know/remember that we are God. That our awareness of 'self' is an illusion. (Doppleganger says it much better.) This is the unifying message of the mystics, across cultures and across millenia, across gender and age.

 

[Willamena]

Interpretation happens when the observer and the observed are separate. Direct experience, without the filters of interpretation, happens when for those brief moments we realize/know/remember that we are God. That our awareness of 'self' is an illusion. (Doppleganger says it much better.) This is the unifying message of the mystics, across cultures and across millenia, across gender and age.

Okay. Thanks for that perspective.