Which Messianic verses of Isaiah refer to Christ?

[Muffled]

That's right. Because there were none.

I believe that reminds me of the time I was in a car with a driver who was unfamiliar with the area. He crossed a very busy street and an accident ensued. The policeman started to write him up for running a stop sign. However he was able to point out there was no stop sign. A vandal had made off with it.

The moral of the story is that even if you can't read the signs at least you ought to know the territory enough to know they would be there.

 

[Muffled]

thanks to all 3 of u, muffled, 2ndpillar, and wizanda. ya know, these dustyfeet are pretty clueless on all this stuff. i'm intrigued, but also set in my ways



so, i'm a little embarrassed, i thought you were going to show me some "math"...

I believe I can understand that. My car wants to go to the hospital even though there is no longer a need for it to do so. The adjustment to the new reality should occur over time. I am not a person who usually gets mired in my past. I also tend to burn my bridges.

 

[Tumah]

I believe that reminds me of the time I was in a car with a driver who was unfamiliar with the area. He crossed a very busy street and an accident ensued. The policeman started to write him up for running a stop sign. However he was able to point out there was no stop sign. A vandal had made off with it.

The moral of the story is that even if you can't read the signs at least you ought to know the territory enough to know they would be there.

The problem is that your moral fits better with the second half of the story. The one where the vandal places the stop sign in the middle of the block and only the people who don't know the territory keep stopping there, while the vast majority of people who are familiar with the area, just drive on by.

 

[CG Didymus]

The different religions are as classes in a school. From kindergarten to university all are equally important and necessary for our spiritual and social development. Without our abc we could never have advanced to university so all religions have been essential parts of humanity’s progress.

The problem with this is that Baha'is say the "original" teachings are lost. All we have is religions that teach different things about God. That is not classes in a school. That is different classes teaching different things. If a person leaves one "class" or religion, they change their beliefs to the new one.

Another problem is that in your "classroom" analogy that would make Hinduism the 1st grade? Then which one after that? If a person is Jewish and becomes a Baha'i, does that mean they've skipped multiple grades and went straight into the University? Actually, it's probably better for them. What would they have learned from becoming Christian or Muslim or Babi in between? Especially Christianity... that God is a Trinity? No, that would not have helped to learn that. They then would have had to unlearn it. No, the progression between religions isn't all that obvious.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The problem with this is that Baha'is say the "original" teachings are lost. All we have is religions that teach different things about God. That is not classes in a school. That is different classes teaching different things. If a person leaves one "class" or religion, they change their beliefs to the new one.

Another problem is that in your "classroom" analogy that would make Hinduism the 1st grade? Then which one after that? If a person is Jewish and becomes a Baha'i, does that mean they've skipped multiple grades and went straight into the University? Actually, it's probably better for them. What would they have learned from becoming Christian or Muslim or Babi in between? Especially Christianity... that God is a Trinity? No, that would not have helped to learn that. They then would have had to unlearn it. No, the progression between religions isn't all that obvious.

The point being made is that religion is ever evolving as we evolve. And that the truths of each religion are relative not absolute and were for the time and our evolution at that period in time.

So although God, the All Knowing knew one day we would attain technological achievements that would enable the world to become a neighbourhood, Jesus did not teach or create laws for world unity as it was not the right time in our evolution and would have been pointless and meaningless. Christ focused on the individual. Muhammad later progressed us onto the community or nation and established constitutions like the constitution of Medina and now in this age when we are all so connected Baha’u’llah has brought guidance on how to unite in peace the diverse religions, cultures, nations and races but maintaining diversity.

All the religions have and continue to contribute to humanity’s progress and evolution. We need all their truths and perspectives but we also need teachings, laws and a culture suitable to be able to embrace all humanity not just one sect or religion and that’s what Baha’u’llah has brought for this age.

There is no first and last or best and only. There were religions before Hinduusm we are told and there will be many more after This Faith. So there is no question of supremacy or superior religion only truth revealed relative to the needs of the age and evolution of humanity at that period.

 

[12jtartar]

Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah foretold in the Tanakh. The book of Isaiah is one of the most cited books. I’m wanting to better understand the reasons for and against the fulfilment of certain verses. Anyone with anything sensible and respectful to say is welcome to contribute. Thank you.

adrian009,
Messianic means things that pertain to the Messiah, who was Jesus. There are many places where the Messiah is mentioned.
At Isaiah 7:14, we have a sign from God about the birth of His son on earth, as a man. One of the names that he would be called, is Immanuel, as also mentioned by Matthew, 1:23, which means, God is with us.
The Messiah is mentioned also at Isaiah 9:6,7. As you can see Jesus was to be called by many names, even, Mighty god. Of course there is an infinite difference between a mighty god, El Gabbohr, in Hebrew, and The Almighty, El Shaddai, in Hebrew.
Another very interesting place in Isaiah where Jesus is mentioned, along with Prophecies he was to fulfill, is Isaiah 11:1-9. Messiah means Anointed one. Jesus was Anointed at the time of his baptism, as John the Baptist testified to, Matthew 3:13-17.
Isaiah, chapter 53 tells about Jesus being persecuted, and giving his life to save people from their sins. Interestingly, this is the Scripture that the Ethiopian Eunuch was reading as he was riding in his chariot, and God told Philip to join himself to. Read Acts 8:26-39. Hebrew Scriptures that foreshadow the Messiah are called, protevangelium Scriptures.
Jesus was mentioned at Isaiah, 42:1-7. Same prophecy’s fulfillment, at Matthew 12:15-21.
At Daniel 9:24-27, was a prophecy fortelling the coming of the Messiah, after 69 weeks of years, or 69x7=483years. The Scripture tell that he would be cut off at the middle of the 70 week, he was crusified. It is also interesting The this prophecy went on for 3&1/2 years after Jesus was Sacrificed, then the first uncircumcised gentile, Cornelius, was baptized into the Christian Congregation, Acts 10:1-48. It is also very interesting to note that the Jews understood Daniel’s prophecy and were expecting the Messiah at the time that John the Baptist came, that is why they thought that John was the Messiah, Luke 3:15-17. John came six months before the Messiah, Jesus.
There are many Scriptures that foretell the coming of Jesus, the Messiah, or Christ, in the Hebrew Scriptures, starting with Genesis 3:15. Agape!!!

 

[Muffled]

The problem is that your moral fits better with the second half of the story. The one where the vandal places the stop sign in the middle of the block and only the people who don't know the territory keep stopping there, while the vast majority of people who are familiar with the area, just drive on by.

Stopping at a stop sign won't kill you but not stopping is hazardous to your health.

 

[joelr]

It’s helpful to have a list of verses that Christians may or may not consider as being relevant to Jesus. Are there any Messianic verses that may refer to someone other than Jesus? That could include those that refer to the Return of Christ or another anointed one.

At the time the OT had many other books included. Enoch, Solomon...
They could create any type of new god they wanted to.

Wisdom of Solomon 2 & 5
Isaiah 52-53
Daniel 9 & 12
Zacariah 3 & 6

dying/rising gods who forgive sins

These are the main places they formed the Jesus stories from.

36:54


at 38:40 he talks about Philo mentioning a Jewish angel named Jesus who was firstborn son of god, image of god, agent of creation