Which of your beliefs are correct?

[Vinayaka]

I don't believe, by definition, that any religious belief can be seen a s correct. Belief is outside the duality of right and wrong. Belief, in general, can obviously be correct, like names of counties, statistics from sports, and a myriad of other trivia.

My religious beliefs are just that. I 'think' they are correct, but they might not be. Who knows. I also think there is a nearly unhealthy level of arrogance to think you're absolutely completely right about all things religious.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thought experiment.

Post the (religious) beliefs that you hold that you are certain are factually correct. I know I said religious, but atheists are welcome to answer too, I encourage it! Like, is an atheist certain there is no god?

I'll start.

If I had to choose a belief that I hold that I am certain of, it is this: suffering is not inevitable. It is my most deeply believed religious belief. But I'm not even certain about this (the reason being is that you guys tell me suffering is inevitable) I believe it, but am I certain? Or is their faith involved? If I develop this philosophy, it doesn't matter if it is wrong I think, because of what it inspires: collective morality. I think the belief implies a higher power.

Let's talk about Christians for a minute. I grew up protestant, mostly in a fundamental baptist church. In those circles, there is a certain pride in having no doubt about the factuality of the Bible and Jesus's godhood. If you lack "faith" i.e. have any reasonable doubts, that is a concern. So, I think many Christians are certain that their beliefs are factually correct. They don't entertain the fact that there are other possibilities.

I joined this site as a Bible literalist with the mindset that I was factually correct. But then, I allowed myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong. Now I am an apostate.

I aspire to be a polytheist/pagan. I am not certain of the gods reality. I have faith and I do genuinely believe them I think, but it is not a fact of life yet for me. Perhaps it never will be. The factuality of my gods may be irrelevant to my ambitions in the end.

Tangent - I aspire to practice dharmic religion as well as a discipline really

Looking forward to hearing your responses!

For me the one belief that cannot be wrong is that humanity is one. The oneness of humanity regardless of race, religion, nationality or lifestyle is a proven scientific fact that is indisputable. It is the essence of all truth and it is acknowledged by all religions, atheists and scientists. Humanity cannot find peace based on the superiority of any one race, religion or nationality but it can definitely establish peace based on the oneness and equality of all humanity. It is the failure to recognise this reality which prevents humanity from being united.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Post the (religious) beliefs that you hold that you are certain are factually correct. I know I said religious, but atheists are welcome to answer too, I encourage it! Like, is an atheist certain there is no god?

I have no beliefs that are factually correct.

I'm not even sure a belief can be held as factually correct. Facts are based on evidence, and once a belief is supported by evidence, it becomes knowledge and is no longer belief.

 

[SDavis]

Thought experiment.

Post the (religious) beliefs that you hold that you are certain are factually correct. I know I said religious, but atheists are welcome to answer too, I encourage it! Like, is an atheist certain there is no god?

I'll start.

If I had to choose a belief that I hold that I am certain of, it is this: suffering is not inevitable. It is my most deeply believed religious belief. But I'm not even certain about this (the reason being is that you guys tell me suffering is inevitable) I believe it, but am I certain? Or is their faith involved? If I develop this philosophy, it doesn't matter if it is wrong I think, because of what it inspires: collective morality. I think the belief implies a higher power.

Let's talk about Christians for a minute. I grew up protestant, mostly in a fundamental baptist church. In those circles, there is a certain pride in having no doubt about the factuality of the Bible and Jesus's godhood. If you lack "faith" i.e. have any reasonable doubts, that is a concern. So, I think many Christians are certain that their beliefs are factually correct. They don't entertain the fact that there are other possibilities.

I joined this site as a Bible literalist with the mindset that I was factually correct. But then, I allowed myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong. Now I am an apostate.

I aspire to be a polytheist/pagan. I am not certain of the gods reality. I have faith and I do genuinely believe them I think, but it is not a fact of life yet for me. Perhaps it never will be. The factuality of my gods may be irrelevant to my ambitions in the end.

Tangent - I aspire to practice dharmic religion as well as a discipline really

Looking forward to hearing your response.

Jesus said my sheep know my voice and they follow me. Those that truly follow Jesus are his sheep and not one of his sheep will he lose - except the son of perdition.

No religious belief can be "factually" presented - lack of tangible, literal, viewable, evidence of the existence of God .... But according to Tacitus of Rome - Christus (the name given Yeshua / Jesus by the Greeks) did walk the Earth and he had many Jewish and gentile followers, which Rome gave the name Christians (meaning followers of Christus/ Christos and persecuted then for some 300 years.

 

[ChristineM]

Like, is an atheist certain there is no god?

I am certain, 100% certain. Certain that gods are a belief and not a reality. Of course if someone can provide falsifiable evidence that their god(s) exist i will be happy to examine it.

Why is my certainty so strong. Simple...
Unnecessary suffering
Unnecessary death
Evil
Childhood leukemia
Natural disasters.
The mosquito.
Futility of prayer
More and more gaps in knowledge being filled by science
There is no need for god's

And more but it's lunch time...

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why is my certainty so strong. Simple...
Unnecessary suffering
Unnecessary death
Evil
Childhood leukemia
Natural disasters.
The mosquito.

You're operating under the assumption that a god would intervene in worldly affairs. Why do you make such an assumption?

Futility of prayer

For you, perhaps. But there are those who find prayer to be quite effective.

More and more gaps in knowledge being filled by science

You're operating under the assumption that the existence of a god would conflict with science. Sure, there may be stories about certain gods that may conflict with science, but how does this lead to a certainty that there are no gods?

There is no need for god's

For you, perhaps. However, others have a clear need.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Thought experiment.

Post the (religious) beliefs that you hold that you are certain are factually correct. I know I said religious, but atheists are welcome to answer too, I encourage it! Like, is an atheist certain there is no god?

...

I have none, since my beliefs are based on faith.

 

[ChristineM]

You're operating under the assumption that a god would intervene in worldly affairs. Why do you make such an assumption?


For you, perhaps. But there are those who find prayer to be quite effective.


You're operating under the assumption that the existence of a god would conflict with science. Sure, there may be stories about certain gods that may conflict with science, but how does this lead to a certainty that there are no gods?


For you, perhaps. However, others have a clear need.

I am operating on the he assumption of the majority of holy book

Sure prayer can to soothing to fool.people into thinking they've done something.

It seems to me that you have it mised up. Its religion that does all the shouting when science shows one of its long held beliefs are just natural phenomenon with mo need for god magic

I am sueisome people have a clear need, however the universe has no such need.

My views of course, everyone has their views don't they?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I am operating on the he assumption of the majority of holy book

Which ones, specifically?

Sure prayer can to soothing to fool.people into thinking they've done something.

View attachment 76409

Like many atheists, you misunderstand the purpose of prayer.

It seems to me that you have it mised up. Its religion that does all the shouting when science shows one of its long held beliefs are just natural phenomenon with mo need for god magic

Please list the religions that use the term "god magic." I'm not entirely sure what that is.

Then, please show, in detail, the differences between a "natural phenomenon" and "god magic."

I am sueisome people have a clear need, however the universe has no such need.

Please explain how people are somehow separate from the universe.

My views of course, everyone has their views don't they?

Yes, but not everyone presents them in such a condescending fashion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...


Please explain how people are somehow separate from the universe.


...

That one is such fun. I just admit that I am not in the universe and then ask how the person as being in the universe can know that I am not in the universe?
It is in effect the natural version of Hell. I am in natural Hell, since I am not in the universe.

 

[ChristineM]

Which ones, specifically?


Like many atheists, you misunderstand the purpose of prayer.


Please list the religions that use the term "god magic." I'm not entirely sure what that is.

Then, please show, in detail, the differences between a "natural phenomenon" and "god magic."


Please explain how people are somehow separate from the universe.


Yes, but not everyone presents them in such a condescending fashion.

Abrahamics.

Or don't see the point of prayer. (BTW, i was at one time a devout Christian and prayed regularly)

I don't think any religion referes to magic on has to be non religious to see ithe only way it can work is through magic.

Please show in detail a gods intervention.

Eh?

Oh yes they do just take your rose colored religion specks off and read through this thread and similar.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Abrahamics.

Or don't see the point of prayer. (BTW, i was at one time a devout Christian and prayed regularly)

I don't think any religion referes to magic on has to be non religious to see ithe only way it can work is through magic.

Please show in detail a gods intervention.

Eh?

Oh yes they do just take your rose colored religion specks off and read through this thread and similar.

Well, how do you see that I have rose colored classes? What is your evidence for that?

 

[CG Didymus]

My religious beliefs are just that. I 'think' they are correct, but they might not be. Who knows. I also think there is a nearly unhealthy level of arrogance to think you're absolutely completely right about all things religious.

Yes. It's understandable how people have come to believe their religion is "The Truth". But they all can't be "The Truth". So, a much better way is, like you say, to leave an opening in your beliefs to allow for the possibility that your beliefs aren't necessarily correct.

Humanity cannot find peace based on the superiority of any one race, religion or nationality but it can definitely establish peace based on the oneness and equality of all humanity.

Can Baha'is not present themselves as being a new and superior religion? That has been a barrier between them and the people in the other religions. To unite as one people has to allow for religious differences being okay and respected.

 

[Vinayaka]

Can Baha'is not present themselves as being a new and superior religion? That has been a barrier between them and the people in the other religions. To unite as one people has to allow for religious differences being okay and respected.

I'm always amazed at how some people jut can't see the contradiction in their own statements. Carry on.

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm always amazed at how some people jut can't see the contradiction in their own statements. Carry on.

Probably born-again Christians are the usual people that get blamed for thinking that everything they believe is correct, but so many religious people seem to think that way. And I think the problem is that their religion teaches it to them. It's built into the supposed "correct" beliefs of the religion. Like "Jesus is the only way." Or that "Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets."

The Baha'is are part of that line of religions that uses those past religions to build upon. They say that those other religions were true, but Baha'is claim that their new teachings have done away with and replaced many of the beliefs and teachings of those other religions. Thus, making the Baha'is the only real "correct" one.

But are they sure of it? For them, how can a true Baha'i, or a Muslim, or a Christian, answer it in any other way but to say, "Yes, I am sure."

I wouldn't be surprised if it happens with some Dharmic religions too. But at least there seems to be a built in belief that there are "many paths" up the mountain to spiritual truth. Also, with the blind men describing a different part of the elephant. None of them can see the whole elephant, but from what they know and feel, they are describing something true about the elephant.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Abrahamics.

So not the majority then, since Hinduism alone has more holy books than all Abrahamic religions combined.

Or don't see the point of prayer. (BTW, i was at one time a devout Christian and prayed regularly)

I don't see the point in buying a mobile home, putting in in a park by a lake along with a hundred other mobile homes stacked closer than city houses, going there for a week, and calling that "vacation." Does that fool the people into doing it that they actually took a vacation?

Of course not. Their perspective on what constitutes a vacation is much different than mine. While it may not work for me, it works for them.

I don't think any religion referes to magic on has to be non religious to see ithe only way it can work is through magic.

The only way what can work?

Please show in detail a gods intervention.

I'm not sure how you think this is relevant to my request in my last post, other than my mention that you assume a god would intervene in worldly affairs.

Eh?

You said people may have a need, but the universe doesn't. Following that logic, people are somehow separate from the universe.

Oh yes they do just take your rose colored religion specks off and read through this thread and similar.

Everyone does? Please point out where I was being condescending. Or am I not a part of "everyone?"

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So not the majority then, since Hinduism alone has more holy books than all Abrahamic religions combined.


I don't see the point in buying a mobile home, putting in in a park by a lake along with a hundred other mobile homes stacked closer than city houses, going there for a week, and calling that "vacation." Does that fool the people into doing it that they actually took a vacation?

Of course not. Their perspective on what constitutes a vacation is much different than mine. While it may not work for me, it works for them.


The only way what can work?


I'm not sure how you think this is relevant to my request in my last post, other than my mention that you assume a god would intervene in worldly affairs.


You said people may have a need, but the universe doesn't. Following that logic, people are somehow separate from the universe.


Everyone does? Please point out where I was being condescending. Or am I not a part of "everyone?"

In short for the Thomas theorem in practice one of you do it differently for real than the other one, but both cases are real for the effect that it can be observed that you do real differently, yet that is real.

 

[ChristineM]

So not the majority then, since Hinduism alone has more holy books than all Abrahamic religions combined.


I don't see the point in buying a mobile home, putting in in a park by a lake along with a hundred other mobile homes stacked closer than city houses, going there for a week, and calling that "vacation." Does that fool the people into doing it that they actually took a vacation?

Of course not. Their perspective on what constitutes a vacation is much different than mine. While it may not work for me, it works for them.

The only way what can work?


I'm not sure how you think this is relevant to my request in my last post, other than my mention that you assume a god would intervene in worldly affairs.


You said people may have a need, but the universe doesn't. Following that logic, people are somehow separate from the universe.


Everyone does? Please point out where I was being condescending. Or am I not a part of "everyone?"

The Abrahamics have more adherents but I'll take your word for the number of holy books.

We each have our views though I don't see the connection between prayer and caravaning. I live in a tourist area and several thousand camping cars and caravans descend on the are every year, i am sure those tourists consider it worthwhile.

The only way religion can work.

I think it completely relevant.

Nope, what makes you think that, people are in the universe, are made up from bits of universe, and still no god is required.

Oh sorry, did i say everyone? Just checked and i definitely didn't say everyone

Edit: it was was you you pushed the everyone agenda, i misinterpreted you words. So lets day some do...

Edit2: could you please point out where you think i made my case in a condescending manner.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Any supposed prophet lived in the past.

We have the ability to create our future, one without suffering.

A future without suffering? How is that possible?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The Abrahamics have more adherents but I'll take your word for the number of holy books.

We each have our views though I don't see the connection between prayer and caravaning. I live in a tourist area and several thousand camping cars and caravans descend on the are every year, i am sure those tourists consider it worthwhile.

The only way religion can work.

I think it completely relevant.

Nope, what makes you think that, people are in the universe, are made up from bits of universe, and still no god is required.

Oh sorry, did i say everyone? Just checked and i definitely didn't say everyone

Yes and I think it differently. Now what? We are both in the universe as different bits.