Which presidential candidate are you voting for in the 2012 election and why?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have a question guys if anyone knows. Is Obama Center left or Center right?

Center-left.

Funny... I'd call him either "center right" or plain ol' "right", and the Republicans "extreme right".

 

[Revoltingest]

Funny... I'd call him either "center right" or plain ol' "right", and the Republicans "extreme right".

From our perspective, he's steering the country in a leftward direction (compared to where it was when he took office).
Thus, I'd say he's a leftish statist.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Not an American, but id vote Paul or Johnson personally... I dont like Romney from what I have seen of him in the electoral campaign, Obama has demonstrated in his term in office a high level of incompetence and/or unworthiness for the position and the others I simply do not know enough about.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

From our perspective, he's steering the country in a leftward direction (compared to where it was when he took office).
Thus, I'd say he's a leftish statist.

Is he? The only real "leftward" measure I can think of that he's tried to do is his health care plan. What else is there?

Edit: and other things he's done, such as decide to no longer defend DOMA against court challenges, are probably anti-statist, since they serve to reduce government interference in the lives of individuals.

And in any case, I'd say that he's steering toward the country to a point on the right side of the political spectrum, even if the starting point is even further right of that (which I'd argue is questionable). It's not like he'd implement communism if you let him go unchecked long enough.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is he? The only real "leftward" measure I can think of that he's tried to do is his health care plan. What else is there?

- He greatly increased federal regulation
- He wants higher income taxes & capital gains taxes.
- Obamacare

And in any case, I'd say that he's steering toward the country to a point on the right side of the political spectrum, even if the starting point is even further right of that (which I'd argue is questionable). It's not like he'd implement communism if you let him go unchecked long enough.

I'm looking at the direction of the political vector, which is clearer & more significant than his location on the political spectrum.
Besides....you're a Canuckistanian....whaddaya know about left v right here?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

- He greatly increased federal regulation

In what way?

- He wants higher income taxes & capital gains taxes.
- Obamacare

I'd say that "Obamacare" is the most right-wing version of universal health care that I've ever heard of. And meanwhile:

- He worked to get America out of two major wars.
- He repealed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (which I'd say counts, since it was a reduction in state interference of non-employment related aspects of the lives of government employees, who are also citizens).

Overall, has he brought the country more right or more left? I think it's debatable.

I'm looking at the direction of the political vector, which is clearer & more significant than his location on the political spectrum.

So then in your view, Raul Castro is a right-wing capitalist? I mean, he let Cubans buy microwaves! And DVD players! Fidel never let them do that. Never mind that he's an ardent communist - he's moved his country's political position to the right somewhat.

Besides....you're a Canuckistanian....whaddaya know about left v right here?

I could say the same thing to you, being an American. When you look at US politics versus the rest of the world or the range of possible positions, it's hard to say that it's doesn't have a significant right-wing shift.

 

[Revoltingest]

In what way?

The CFR (Code Of Federal Regulations) grew. Administrative rules & legislation signed, I presume.

I'd say that "Obamacare" is the most right-wing version of universal health care that I've ever heard of.

"Left" & "right" are certainly ambiguous terms, but an expansion of
government power which imposes a new tax sounds more lefty to me.

And meanwhile:
- He worked to get America out of two major wars.
- He repealed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (which I'd say counts, since it was a reduction in state interference of non-employment related aspects of the lives of government employees, who are also citizens).

His ending of the wars was slow & is not over. I would've expected a faster retreat from Bush, but such things are hard to predict.
Besides, both the left & the right like foreign wars.
His gays in the military policy was congressional action, which he merely signed. He refused to use the power he had to end it by fiat.
Again, it looks neither left nor right.

So then in your view, Raul Castro is a right-wing capitalist? I mean, he let Cubans buy microwaves! And DVD players! Fidel never let them do that. Never mind that he's an ardent communist - he's moved his country's political position to the right somewhat.

I could venture a reckless opinion, but I'm not familiar enuf to say.

I could say the same thing to you, being an American. When you look at US politics versus the rest of the world or the range of possible positions, it's hard to say that it's doesn't have a significant right-wing shift.

Leftish things: Spending is way up, taxes will head up, regulations are up.
Neutral things: The wars continue, we're looking more like a police state.
Rightish things: ?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are still available? I'd say Ron Paul but I'm sure he's out, so Gary it is.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It's not like he'd implement communism if you let him go unchecked long enough.

I'm not so sure of that. :no:

 

[waitasec]

Well I am going to vote for Senator Barack Obama again as I believe he is just the best candidate out of some of the other candidates. I believe he should get a second chance to show this country that he can turn it around

ahem, that would be president barack obama



If you look at the four months as a whole, Mr. Obama is still somewhat ahead of pace. An average of about 200,000 payroll jobs were created in the first four months of the year. What that means is that the May through October jobs reports would only need to show about 120,000 jobs being created per month for Mr. Obama to reach the 150,000-job “magic number” throughout the election year.

But let’s make this analysis more forward-looking. The jobs numbers for the past five months or so, taken as a whole, have been fairly decent, especially relative to where the figures had been throughout most of the last three years. The concern economists have, however, is that the March and April figures were less solid than those in December, January and February, which could presage another summer slump in job growth, as occurred in both 2010 and 2011.

Has Obama's Magic Jobs Number Changed? - NYTimes.com

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"Left" & "right" are certainly ambiguous terms, but an expansion of
government power which imposes a new tax sounds more lefty to me.

And mandating that individuals must contract with private businesses or face financial penalties sounds rather un-lefty to me. The real left approach would be government control of the whole healthcare system. The centrist approach would be something like government-provided health insurance with private entities delivering the care. This approach is something else: it's not really "left", since it throws a major bone to business when the government doing it directly would probably be better in all sorts of ways, and it's not really "right", since it imposes a costly duty on individuals.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because it's not "right" doesn't make it "left", because it's not really "left" either.

His ending of the wars was slow & is not over. I would've expected a faster retreat from Bush, but such things are hard to predict.
Besides, both the left & the right like foreign wars.
His gays in the military policy was congressional action, which he merely signed. He refused to use the power he had to end it by fiat.
Again, it looks neither left nor right.

I suppose. As for comparisons with Bush, though... while I agree that Obama doesn't come out smelling like a rose on many issues, but is it more anti-freedom to merely extend thing like the GITMO prison and the Patriot Act than it was to implement these things in the first place?

If we're going to compare Obama's trajectory with Bush's, then I think it's worth pointing out that Obama didn't continue Bush's trend of creating new, horrible impositions on freedom. As much as you may dislike the healthcare bill, it's no Patriot Act. Trampling habeas corpus is a much bigger threat to freedom than trying to push you into a purchase that's a mind-numbingly good idea anyhow.

 

[Revoltingest]

And mandating that individuals must contract with private businesses or face financial penalties sounds rather un-lefty to me. The real left approach would be government control of the whole healthcare system. The centrist approach would be something like government-provided health insurance with private entities delivering the care. This approach is something else: it's not really "left", since it throws a major bone to business when the government doing it directly would probably be better in all sorts of ways, and it's not really "right", since it imposes a costly duty on individuals.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because it's not "right" doesn't make it "left", because it's not really "left" either.

It's still a huge expansion of governmental power & an increase in taxes.
But I agree that it's not as leftist as it could be......the worst of both, eh?
(I slipped in a little Canuckistanian for you.)

I suppose. As for comparisons with Bush, though... while I agree that Obama doesn't come out smelling like a rose on many issues, but is it more anti-freedom to merely extend thing like the GITMO prison and the Patriot Act than it was to implement these things in the first place?

To be anti-freedom is a trait of both the left & right....more a question of which freedoms are curtailed.
Gitmo & the Patriot Act go both ways, although the latter has a more rightish title.

If we're going to compare Obama's trajectory with Bush's, then I think it's worth pointing out that Obama didn't continue Bush's trend of creating new, horrible impositions on freedom. As much as you may dislike the healthcare bill, it's no Patriot Act. Trampling habeas corpus is a much bigger threat thttp://www.religiousforums.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3026334o freedom than trying to push you into a purchase that's a mind-numbingly good idea anyhow.

And yet, Obama keeps the Patriot Act in place. Moreover, we see him enhancing it's power, & more aggressively prosecuting whistle blowers. But I still don't see such a crackdown on liberty as being strictly right or left. (It is clearly anti-libertarian though.)

Perhaps we should establish criteria for what is "right" & what is "left".
Left: big government, high taxes, much regulation, social liberty, economically restrictive
Right: small government, low taxes, less regulation, socially restrictive, economically liberal
I say that Obama steers us to the left.....but not full rudder.

 

[TheKnight]

- He worked to get America out of two major wars.

Both wars are still very much on going. If anything they're simply changing form. Not including our "drone wars" (so to speak) where we consistently (as in nearly everyday) bomb locations in both Yemen and Pakistan.
I guess that's clever politicking isn't it? Being able to convince the population that we're bombing countries but aren't actually at war with them. I'm sure those who live in the collateral damage of our bombings would agree.

If we're going to compare Obama's trajectory with Bush's, then I think it's worth pointing out that Obama didn't continue Bush's trend of creating new, horrible impositions on freedom.

To be fair, Congress passed the Patriot Act. Bush just signed it. And Obama has had no problem utilizing the Patriot Act. Let's not forget that the reason the Patriot Act is still on the books is because Obama signed its extension.

 

[Kerr]

I find it ironic that people in America might consider Obama left wing when he would be considered quite right wing by my countrys standards .

 

[Kerr]

Perhaps we should establish criteria for what is "right" & what is "left".
Left: big government, high taxes, much regulation, social liberty, economically restrictive
Right: small government, low taxes, less regulation, socially restrictive, economically liberal
I say that Obama steers us to the left.....but not full rudder.

Its off topic, but where would anarchists end up? Left or right?

 

[Revoltingest]

Its off topic, but where would anarchists end up? Left or right?

That's the problem with a such a narrow spectrum....no place for anarchists or libertarians.
I prefer this one.....

Where would anarchists be? They seem to be a diverse & inconsistent bunch.

 

[Kerr]

That's the problem with a such a narrow spectrum....no place for anarchists or libertarians.
I prefer this one.....

Where would anarchists be? They seem to be a diverse & inconsistent bunch.

Which was why I asked . I am quite left oriented. Would maybe even call myself a socialist. But I would never support a dictatorship and do not like when the government start to poke its nose in peoples private lives without a good reason to do just that.

 

[Sir Doom]

I'm boycotting democracy. No voting for me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Its off topic, but where would anarchists end up? Left or right?

Anarchist can be left or right. Typically they could be considered Left, but there exists Anarchist philosophies on both sides, as well as the center.
Anarchist schools of thought - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where would anarchists be? They seem to be a diverse & inconsistent bunch.

That seems appropriate.