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Which prophecies did Jesus fulfill as to be the Messiah?

Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
The concept of the Noahide law is not necessarily a Tanakh-based concept but a Talmudic post 2nd Temple idea that was an invention of the Rabbis. Gentiles living in Israelite borders were otherwise expected to obey the Law. We don't really know what the original idea of what non-Israelites were to obey outside the land of Israel.
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
Shermana said:
The concept of the Noahide law is not necessarily a Tanakh-based concept but a Talmudic post 2nd Temple idea that was an invention of the Rabbis. Gentiles living in Israelite borders were otherwise expected to obey the Law. We don't really know what the original idea of what non-Israelites were to obey outside the land of Israel.
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The Rabbis coined the term but the “Noahide law” had always existed. You can call it what you want but “a rose by any other name is still a rose.” We all know we should not murder, steal, etc. We don’t need a book or scroll for that. It’s written on everyone’s heart right from the get go, unless of course we run into an idiot.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
roger1440 said:
The Rabbis coined the term but the “Noahide law” had always existed. You can call it what you want but “a rose by any other name is still a rose.” We all know we should not murder, steal, etc. We don’t need a book or scroll for that. It’s written on everyone’s heart right from the get go, unless of course we run into an idiot.
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Let me rephrase what I meant.

The concept that gentiles were only expected to follow those is the recent concept.

Now do we all know not to commit idolatry?

Do we all know not to marry our wife's sister?
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
For the most part Jesus preached the Torah. So to understand Jesus’s message a prerequisite would be the understanding of the Torah. Judging from my own experience with churches and church Bible study much less time is spent on the Old Testament compared to the New Testament.
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
Shermana said:
Let me rephrase what I meant.

The concept that gentiles were only expected to follow those is the recent concept.

Now do we all know not to commit idolatry?

Do we all know not to marry our wife's sister?
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I don't think most people who commit idolatry realize it. Money is an idol for many Americans.

If I had a wife, I wouldn't mind marrying her sister too.Well, as long as she is hot. Where do I sign up? :)
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
nazz said:
Not entirely accurate. Certainly Pilate was a cruel and brutal man who thought nothing of crucifying ten Jews before breakfast. In fact, he was so brutal he even disturbed Rome who eventually recalled him. But Pilate was also entrusted with keeping the Pax Romana in his part of the world. Releasing a prisoner would be a way to appease the Jews. He favored releasing Jesus because he knew he was no real threat but crucifying him might cause a revolt among his followers.



Again not accurate. In the eyes of the Pharisees Jesus was performing unnecessary healings on the Sabbath. That would violate Shabbos for which the penalty was death.
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The way Pilate dealt with revolt is by killing anyone who remotely shows the signs of it. There is no reason to believe he would try and appease the jews.


If it's to save a life, you can violate the sabbath. If it's something that is not that important and can wait, then you are supposed to wait until after shabbos is over.
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
The concept of the Noahide law is not necessarily a Tanakh-based concept but a Talmudic post 2nd Temple idea that was an invention of the Rabbis. Gentiles living in Israelite borders were otherwise expected to obey the Law. We don't really know what the original idea of what non-Israelites were to obey outside the land of Israel.
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It comes from Genesis.
 
dantech

dantech

Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
The concept of the Noahide law is not necessarily a Tanakh-based concept but a Talmudic post 2nd Temple idea that was an invention of the Rabbis. Gentiles living in Israelite borders were otherwise expected to obey the Law. We don't really know what the original idea of what non-Israelites were to obey outside the land of Israel.
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That's the non-Jewish view... For Jews, at least Orthodox Jews, the Talmud represents God's word. It was not an invention of the Rabbis, it was an explanation to the word that God gave us in the Torah by the Rabbis.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
dantech said:
That's the non-Jewish view... For Jews, at least Orthodox Jews, the Talmud represents God's word.
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Really? I've never before heard an Orthodox Jew or any Jew for that matter make such a statement. Are you referring to the Torah she-be-'al peh discussed in the Talmud?
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
nazz said:
Really? I've never before heard an Orthodox Jew or any Jew for that matter make such a statement. Are you referring to the Torah she-be-'al peh discussed in the Talmud?
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You obviously haven't spoken to many orthodox jews.

The oral law was given by G-D to the jews via Moses on Mt Sinai, as well as the written law.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
CMike said:
You obviously haven't spoken to many orthodox jews.
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Actually I have conversed with quite a few.

The oral law was given by G-D to the jews via Moses on Mt Sinai, as well as the written law.
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:facepalm: The Torah she-be-'al peh IS the Oral Law! It is NOT the Talmud! That was my point!
 
dantech

dantech

Well-Known Member
nazz said:
Actually I have conversed with quite a few.

:facepalm: The Torah she-be-'al peh IS the Oral Law! It is NOT the Talmud! That was my point!
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You are technically right, but many of us just refer to is as the Talmud anyway.
 
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