Which "prophet" is telling the truth?

[porkchop]

Then what is your beef with the LDS if there are no scriptural contradictions?
What you got left to whine at them about?

No scriptural contradictions in the Bible, which Joseph Smith isn't mentioned in, mormons have Book of Mormon and The Bible as there scripture.
Now leave me to whine now ive stated my beef!

 

[McBell]

No scriptural contradictions in the Bible, which Joseph Smith isn't mentioned in, mormons have Book of Mormon and The Bible as there scripture.
Now leave me to whine now ive stated my beef!

Now you are being inconsistent, not that that is any surprise.

However, since you seem to have already set your mind in stone, I will just sit back and watch you do nothing other than show how the LDS beliefs are different from what you believe and then listen to you rant and rave about how those differences somehow prove you right and the LDS wrong.

Perhaps you will be able to make it interesting to read, though I doubt it, since you are not the first one who thinks they will be able to prove anything other than there are differences.

 

[LittleNipper]

Then what is your beef with the LDS if there are no scriptural contradictions?
What you got left to whine at them about?

Well the first contradiction would appear to be how Nephi handles Laban and then lies to Laban's servant. GOD says that one should not murder. David didn't murder Saul even though Saul was clearly placed in David's hands. Laban was not tried as an Isaelite, even though he is clearly a Hebrew. He was not stoned. The plates were STOLEN.

 

[Watchmen]

Well the first contradiction would appear to be how Nephi handles Laban and then lies to Laban's servant. GOD says that one should not murder. David didn't murder Saul even though Saul was clearly placed in David's hands. Laban was not tried as an Isaelite, even though he is clearly a Hebrew. He was not stoned. The plates were STOLEN.

How do you explain God commanding Isreal to utterly destroy it's opponents and to not leave one living thing???

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Easy, there are no scriptural contradictions.

Really? :sarcastic

I guess you showed me. You sure answered a fool according to his folly, which I've read is a good thing (Proverbs 26:5):

Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.

...or is it a bad thing (Proverbs 26:4)?

Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you will be like him yourself.

Yep - no contradictions at all.

 

[Halcyon]

I started this thread because i have yet to hear an answer as to why/how you can believe both are right. ( i dont include the carrot here)
No rule against repetition on this site is there?

Why don't you try a bit of imagination?

For a start you could look at the Book of Job where God convenes a council where the "sons of God" and satan are summoned into his court. Perhaps this is what Smith meant by a council of gods?

Perhaps the verses in Isaiah explain that there is not other God for the people of Earth to worship, no one who stands equal to Yahweh for humans to call their God, but maybe other worlds or universes have different Gods it just doesn't say so?

Or maybe your interpretation of the Bible is just off, after all the Hebrew uses the same word for God singular in "And in the beginning God (elohim) created the heaven and the earth" and plural in "Thou shalt have no other gods (elohim) before me".

 

[Katzpur]

Porkchop, would you comment on the following scriptures for me, please:

Exodus 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?

Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Psalm 95:3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalm 97:9 For thou, LORD, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

You claim that the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible but deny that there are contradictions within the Bible itself. How can God be compared, as He is in all four of these verses (among a number of others), to other gods if there are no other Gods? If He alone is divine, how can He be "God of gods"? Why is He referred to as "a" great God if He is the only god? Is it even meaningful to say that He is exalted above all other gods if they do not exist? There is nothing in any of these verses to imply that the gods to which our God is compared are "false gods." If that was the case, they'd be saying that God is the "God of false gods."

Since you are British, maybe this example will help you understand the LDS position on "God" and "gods." As a British citizen you pledge allegiance of some sort to "the Queen." You probably never refer to her as merely "a queen" but as "the Queen" (as if she were the only queen anywhere in the world). If someone who had absolutely no knowledge of the workings of royalty in Great Britain were to ask you which queen you pay homage to, you would probably say, "Well, to Elizabeth, of course. She's the only queen." Well, that would technically be an inaccurate statement. There are a number of queens reigning in various countries of the world (although they are sadly outnumbered by kings, I'm afraid). But while you acknowledge their existance, they mean nothing to you personally. They can do nothing for you. You owe them no respect. They simply exist, and if you admit they do, that's all that anyone can expect of you. Elizabeth is your Queen. She is the only Queen that has anything at all to do with you.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 says pretty much the same thing: For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Now I'm not going to get into a huge debate over this. I may or may not contribute further to this discussion. I do believe, though, that I have explained how nothing Joseph Smith said contradicts Isaiah any more than Paul did, or any more than any of the Old Testament writers whose words I've quoted. Anything more that I could say would just be repetitive.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why don't you try a bit of imagination?

I don't know if this jibes with the Hebrew and I'm not sure if this is exactly the Mormon position, but I imagine that the passages in the OP could plausibly be reconciled with the idea that there's one head God and many gods beneath that one.

 

[Katzpur]

I don't know if this jibes with the Hebrew and I'm not sure if this is exactly the Mormon position, but I imagine that the passages in the OP could plausibly be reconciled with the idea that there's one head God and many gods beneath that one.

See my last post (#27). I've updated it to address your comments.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

See my last post (#27). I've updated it to address your comments.

Cool. Thanks!

 

[porkchop]

Porkchop, would you comment on the following scriptures for me, please:

Exodus 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?

Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Psalm 95:3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalm 97:9 For thou, LORD, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

Many things are called god in this world, but as Isaiah says, there is only one true God and he doesn't acknowledge any other as God. " I know not any" Isaiah.

You claim that the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible but deny that there are contradictions within the Bible itself. How can God be compared, as He is in all four of these verses (among a number of others), to other gods if there are no other Gods? If He alone is divine, how can He be "God of gods"? Why is He referred to as "a" great God if He is the only god? Is it even meaningful to say that He is exalted above all other gods if they do not exist? There is nothing in any of these verses to imply that the gods to which our God is compared are "false gods." If that was the case, they'd be saying that God is the "God of false gods."

Anyone can pick a few verses out of the Bible and make it say what they want it to, but you need to take the whole Bible into account, which shows any other gods are considered false gods.
Definite statements like Isaiah's determine how you interprete less bold statements.

Since you are British, maybe this example will help you understand the LDS position on "God" and "gods." As a British citizen you pledge allegiance of some sort to "the Queen." You probably never refer to her as merely "a queen" but as "the Queen" (as if she were the only queen anywhere in the world). If someone who had absolutely no knowledge of the workings of royalty in Great Britain were to ask you which queen you pay homage to, you would probably say, "Well, to Elizabeth, of course. She's the only queen." Well, that would technically be an inaccurate statement. There are a number of queens reigning in various countries of the world (although they are sadly outnumbered by kings, I'm afraid). But while you acknowledge their existance, they mean nothing to you personally. They can do nothing for you. You owe them no respect. They simply exist, and if you admit they do, that's all that anyone can expect of you. Elizabeth is your Queen. She is the only Queen that has anything at all to do with you.

Isaiah's position would be there is only one Queen. He know's not of any other.

Thankyou for your answer.

 

[Katzpur]

Many things are called god in this world, but as Isaiah says, there is only one true God and he doesn't acknowledge any other as God. " I know not any" Isaiah.

Well, I pretty much see it the same way as Isaiah does, I think. I acknowledge only one true God as having anything whatsoever to do with me. Any other beings that may be called "gods" are false gods with respect to their having any influence on my life. That doesn't mean that they don't exist. Maybe if you were to give me an actual definition of a "false god" it would help.

Anyone can pick a few verses out of the Bible and make it say what they want it to...

Yes, you've just proven that. None of the verses I quoted gave even a hint that they were referring to false gods. If you believe they did, you're going to have to explain it to me, because I sure couldn't see it.

but you need to take the whole Bible into account, which shows any other gods are considered false gods.

Only if we worship them or believe that they can answer our prayers, grant us salvation or happiness or that they are deserving of our praise and adoration. I guess then, that you would be comfortable changing Deuteronomy, for instance, to read:

"For the LORD your God is God of false gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward."

Definite statements like Isaiah's determine how you interprete less bold statements.

I agree, which is why I gave you the analogy of how you might view your queen.

Isaiah's position would be there is only one Queen. He know's not of any other.

Then he would be wrong, wouldn't he? Because you and I know that other queens really do exist. They are not figments of our imagination.