Which religion is most the most scientifically accurate?

[Gurtej]

Before I begin, let me correct you. I am not a Creationist.

I fully support Evolution, and so does the Holy Qur'an.

I am beginning to think that you are already misunderstanding me and my viewpoints.

Anyway.

Let us begin with one miracle.

Chapter 21, verse 31 of the Holy Qur'an:

"Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass, then We opened them out? And we made of water every living thing. Will they not yet believe?"

Here is another translation:

"Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the Earth were meshed together then We ripped them apart? And then We made of water everything living? Would they still not believe?"

And another translation:

"Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"

AND another translation:

“Do not the Unbelievers see That the heavens and the earth Were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? And we made from water every living thing? Would they still not believe?"

---

Read all of those translations of that one verse. What is it talking about? Focus on the first part of it, ignore the water part for now.

Ok so does this describe Big Bang ? Also r u sure this is the first time Amy religious group described Big Bang? I give u benefit of doubt that u have not read other scriptures...

One important thing...all these translations are pointing to the fact that earth was created at the time of Big Bang when Big Bang happened around 13.7 billion years ago and earth is only 4.5 billion years old... Am I missing something there or u want to provide another translation...

Again I ask U to read scriptures older then Quran and u will find out that Big Bang was already talked about way before Mohammad was born..

I will wait for ur water argument..

 

[OurCreed]

Ok so does this describe Big Bang ? Also r u sure this is the first time Amy religious group described Big Bang? I give u benefit of doubt that u have not read other scriptures...

One important thing...all these translations are pointing to the fact that earth was created at the time of Big Bang when Big Bang happened around 13.7 billion years ago and earth is only 4.5 billion years old... Am I missing something there or u want to provide another translation...

Again I ask U to read scriptures older then Quran and u will find out that Big Bang was already talked about way before Mohammad was born..

I will wait for ur water argument..

Correct, it describes the Big Bang.

You claim other religious groups have also talked about the Big Bang, could you please elaborate and show me where? Even if you show me, I already have my answer awaiting for that.

Also, to answer your concern, the Qur'an doesn't state that the Earth was created when the Big Bang happened.

The Qur'an is saying that the Heavens (outer space), and the Earth (our planet), was ONE mass before, and this is true, as science puts it.

Everything in outer space (including the matter that created Earth) was part of one mass, then in a very heated frictious moment, that one mass clumped up together and then started rapidly expanding and thus, the universe became to what it is known for now. Particles moving rapidly in all directions moved away from each other, and some particles clumped up together, started forming larger and larger masses, including Earth, and everything in this Solar System, as well as the Sun itself.

Realize that it wasn't an explosion, that is an elementary term for the Big Bang, scientists all know, the Big Bang wasn't an explosion, more like an expansion, and that is true, because today, scientists have stated that the universe is indeed expanding, which will get me to my next scientific miracle.

Before I continue however, do you have any more questions?

Muhammad (saw) couldn't read nor write, and he was uneducated, he didn't know anything about science, let alone astronomy and the history of this universe.

If you claim Muhammad (saw) copied from previous scriptures, the burden of proof lies upon you, because The Holy Prophet (saw) grew up in a country where there was no access to any advanced scientific knowledge. Also, if he HAD happened to have copied from other sources of information, then tell me, how come Muhammad (saw) only picked the ones that have been proven to be accurate today?

Back then, there were multiple different theories, and some scholars and scientists back then had some parts of their theories to be truth, and other parts to be completely false.

Like a scientist could say the universe started with the Big Bang, but the Earth was flat.

If Muhammad (saw) just went on a copying plagiarism spree, then how come he happened to pick only the parts of the theories that were 100% accurate as proven today? Couldn't he have picked a theory that happened to be false today, but widely accepted as TRUTH back then?

Answer these questions as well. Because as of right now, where we stand, this Big Bang verse is indeed, a scientific miracle.

I can go on to the next one, but I'll await your response.

 

[Gurtej]

Correct, it describes the Big Bang.

You claim other religious groups have also talked about the Big Bang, could you please elaborate and show me where? Even if you show me, I already have my answer awaiting for that.

Also, to answer your concern, the Qur'an doesn't state that the Earth was created when the Big Bang happened.

The Qur'an is saying that the Heavens (outer space), and the Earth (our planet), was ONE mass before, and this is true, as science puts it.

Everything in outer space (including the matter that created Earth) was part of one mass, then in a very heated frictious moment, that one mass clumped up together and then started rapidly expanding and thus, the universe became to what it is known for now. Particles moving rapidly in all directions moved away from each other, and some particles clumped up together, started forming larger and larger masses, including Earth, and everything in this Solar System, as well as the Sun itself.

Realize that it wasn't an explosion, that is an elementary term for the Big Bang, scientists all know, the Big Bang wasn't an explosion, more like an expansion, and that is true, because today, scientists have stated that the universe is indeed expanding, which will get me to my next scientific miracle.

Before I continue however, do you have any more questions?

Muhammad (saw) couldn't read nor write, and he was uneducated, he didn't know anything about science, let alone astronomy and the history of this universe.

If you claim Muhammad (saw) copied from previous scriptures, the burden of proof lies upon you, because The Holy Prophet (saw) grew up in a country where there was no access to any advanced scientific knowledge. Also, if he HAD happened to have copied from other sources of information, then tell me, how come Muhammad (saw) only picked the ones that have been proven to be accurate today?

Back then, there were multiple different theories, and some scholars and scientists back then had some parts of their theories to be truth, and other parts to be completely false.

Like a scientist could say the universe started with the Big Bang, but the Earth was flat.

If Muhammad (saw) just went on a copying plagiarism spree, then how come he happened to pick only the parts of the theories that were 100% accurate as proven today? Couldn't he have picked a theory that happened to be false today, but widely accepted as TRUTH back then?

Answer these questions as well. Because as of right now, where we stand, this Big Bang verse is indeed, a scientific miracle.

I can go on to the next one, but I'll await your response.

What makes u think that illiterate ppl are also ignorant ? I am actually saying Mohamad was man of his time and these things are just phrases ppl at that time were used to...what u described about Big Bang is not what this verse is referring too... This verse is consistent with what a lot other ppl knew at that time... Nothing new..

Regarding which other scriptures say this, please read some Hindu scriptures which are one of the oldest available... Big Bang is described there..
If u just do a google it will come but if u don't want I happy to give I the exact links..

Btw I am not a Hindu...and I will provide my detailed explanation once i go home .. In shopping centre

 

[OurCreed]

What makes u think that illiterate ppl are also ignorant ? I am actually saying Mohamad was man of his time and these things are just phrases ppl at that time were used to...what u described about Big Bang is not what this verse is referring too... This verse is consistent with what a lot other ppl knew at that time... Nothing new..

Regarding which other scriptures say this, please read some Hindu scriptures which are one of the oldest available... Big Bang is described there..
If u just do a google it will come but if u don't want I happy to give I the exact links..

Btw I am not a Hindu...and I will provide my detailed explanation once i go home .. In shopping centre

"I am actually saying Mohamad was man of his time and these things are just phrases ppl at that time were used to...what u described about Big Bang is not what this verse is referring too... This verse is consistent with what a lot other ppl knew at that time... Nothing new.."

Where's the proof of that? Nobody knew anything about any 'Big Bang' where Muhammad (saw) lived, let alone other scientific miracles.

I'd rather you send me the links.

Enjoy your shopping.

 

[nameless]

And before I begin, I hope you realize that science is bound by this universe and the laws within it. Science cannot experiment with anything that is outside the boundaries of time and space.

So don't expect to get experimental evidences

this thread is about proving scientific facts in religions, if you dont believe in science then this thread is not for you. Thanks.

 

[OurCreed]

this thread is about proving scientific facts in religions, if you dont believe in science then this thread is not for you. Thanks.

You don't know what science is.

 

[YmirGF]

You don't know what science is.

If I may intrude on your thinking for a moment, my question is straightforward and simple. Have you ever had scientifically literate non-Muslims agree with the hypothesis of the Big Bang being explained in the Qur'an, as given, in your lecture? I'm just curious how it is working as a form of dawa.

 

[nameless]

You don't know what science is.

May be you are right... but this thread is about science based on experimental evidences, your version of science is simply not valid here. Your islamic DIR could accommodate your version of science i hope, but not here.

 

[Aquitaine]

Before I begin, let me correct you. I am not a Creationist.

Actually, you are. You believe there is a Creator who made reality, regardless of your views on "Science" and "Evolution" you are still a Creationist at heart.

Let us begin with one miracle.

Chapter 21, verse 31 of the Holy Qur'an:

"Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass, then We opened them out? And we made of water every living thing. Will they not yet believe?"

I've had Muslims give this one to me before, again it's just vague scriptures that Muslims try to credit for explaining a scientific phenomena. Isn't it funny how Creationists always wait for Science to discover something first, then they say "Oh look, our book already mentioned this".

The "Heavens and the Earth being closed up" and then "were ripped open" by "WE" is a very ambiguous and rather misleading verse. It talks as little about the Big Bang Theory as it does about Humans tearing open Heaven and Earth. "Miracle" number #1 simply falls apart under any scientific scrutiny, and obviously isn't being taken seriously by say.... NASA..... for obvious reasons.

But anyways, I love Miracles, next one please!

 

[Gurtej]

Before I begin, let me correct you. I am not a Creationist.

I fully support Evolution, and so does the Holy Qur'an.

I am beginning to think that you are already misunderstanding me and my viewpoints.

Anyway.

Let us begin with one miracle.

Chapter 21, verse 31 of the Holy Qur'an:

"Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass, then We opened them out? And we made of water every living thing. Will they not yet believe?"

Here is another translation:

"Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the Earth were meshed together then We ripped them apart? And then We made of water everything living? Would they still not believe?"

And another translation:

"Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"

AND another translation:

“Do not the Unbelievers see That the heavens and the earth Were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? And we made from water every living thing? Would they still not believe?"

---

Read all of those translations of that one verse. What is it talking about? Focus on the first part of it, ignore the water part for now.

Ok so I tried to read this verse from all angels possible..but now I want u to c open minded...

First it's a very vague phrase.. This does not describe Big Bang. But I will still proceed. Then "That the heavens and the earth Were joined", this assumes that earth was there at time of Big Bang., this verse is very clear, how can u not c?any literate rational person will read it this way unless quran is talking about another big bang which is still not known to modern science......the reality is earth came into existence long after Big Bang..and cud not possibly be existed at time of Big Bang so how can it be separated ?.

Then "do not those who disbelieve" ... Quran trying to tell that this argument was known before the time of Quran.. I mean I find it astonishing that u will use a single line and twist it every possible way to come out with something that describe science...

 

[Aquitaine]

Ok so I tried to read this verse from all angels possible..but now I want u to c open minded...

First it's a very vague phrase.. This does not describe Big Bang. But I will still proceed. Then "That the heavens and the earth Were joined", this assumes that earth was there at time of Big Bang., this verse is very clear, how can u not c?any literate rational person will read it this way unless quran is talking about another big bang which is still not known to modern science......the reality is earth came into existence long after Big Bang..and cud not possibly be existed at time of Big Bang so how can it be separated ?.

Then "do not those who disbelieve" ... Quran trying to tell that this argument was known before the time of Quran.. I mean I find it astonishing that u will use a single line and twist it every possible way to come out with something that describe science...

It's funny how the Koran is apparently filled with scientific miracles, yet NASA and all the other international Space agencies, along with top global Medical and Research agencies do not use or base their research off the Koran! xD

Funny too, how the Islamic world is far from the "capital" of Science and development.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Yet there was a time when they were the center of knowledge in the western world... what changed? They allowed clerics greater authority than the quran allotted them, they gave their theological scholars run of everything including the minds of all their people. Up until that point, while the christian world was in the dark ages - the muslim world shone brilliantly before their clerics decided that the christian priests had gotten onto a good thing and took far greater control than their god had decreed in an attempt to stifle any thought that they disliked; it is a pity when you consider the marvel that was the 13th century muslim world.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yet there was a time when they were the center of knowledge in the western world... what changed? They allowed clerics greater authority than the quran allotted them, they gave their theological scholars run of everything including the minds of all their people. Up until that point, while the christian world was in the dark ages - the muslim world shone brilliantly before their clerics decided that the christian priests had gotten onto a good thing and took far greater control than their god had decreed in an attempt to stifle any thought that they disliked; it is a pity when you consider the marvel that was the 13th century muslim world.

Every Empire has it's Golden Age I guess. Still, I'm looking forward to hearing more of OurCreed's Koran Miracles

 

[Gurtej]

Ok so I tried to read this verse from all angels possible..but now I want u to c open minded...

First it's a very vague phrase.. This does not describe Big Bang. But I will still proceed. Then "That the heavens and the earth Were joined", this assumes that earth was there at time of Big Bang., this verse is very clear, how can u not c?any literate rational person will read it this way unless quran is talking about another big bang which is still not known to modern science......the reality is earth came into existence long after Big Bang..and cud not possibly be existed at time of Big Bang so how can it be separated ?.

Then "do not those who disbelieve" ... Quran trying to tell that this argument was known before the time of Quran.. I mean I find it astonishing that u will use a single line and twist it every possible way to come out with something that describe science...

Anyone here , please let me know if what I said above is wrong in regards to the verse..

 

[Aquitaine]

Anyone here , please let me know if what I said above is wrong in regards to the verse..

I think your analysis of the verse was correct.

Indeed - how could "Splitting of the Heavens and Earth" relate to the Big Bang, when the Universe is billions of years older than the Earth.

 

[OurCreed]

I think your analysis of the verse was correct.

Indeed - how could "Splitting of the Heavens and Earth" relate to the Big Bang, when the Universe is billions of years older than the Earth.

I already explained it to you.

During the time of the Big Bang, all the matter started expanding, including the matter that created the Earth. It clearly makes sense.

 

[OurCreed]

Actually, you are. You believe there is a Creator who made reality, regardless of your views on "Science" and "Evolution" you are still a Creationist at heart.

I've had Muslims give this one to me before, again it's just vague scriptures that Muslims try to credit for explaining a scientific phenomena. Isn't it funny how Creationists always wait for Science to discover something first, then they say "Oh look, our book already mentioned this".

The "Heavens and the Earth being closed up" and then "were ripped open" by "WE" is a very ambiguous and rather misleading verse. It talks as little about the Big Bang Theory as it does about Humans tearing open Heaven and Earth. "Miracle" number #1 simply falls apart under any scientific scrutiny, and obviously isn't being taken seriously by say.... NASA..... for obvious reasons.

But anyways, I love Miracles, next one please!

1) Search up something called 'Guided Evolution' on Wikipedia...that is the Islamic Ahmadiyya viewpoint, which we believe to be the true Islamic viewpoint.

2) Funny how you mention 'vague'. We humans were given brains, and now that we have the knowledge, YOU yourself clearly identified that the verse was talking about the Big Bang, and that proves the verse was very clear.

You may not agree with the contents OF it, but you knew, and scientists knew.

The verse is very clear, and not vague.

You know what would make the verse INCORRECT? If the verse said something like, 'explosion', which is wrong, because the Big Bang was not an explosion.

Yet, the Qur'an mentions everything to be accurate.

The Heavens and the Earth means every single thing in this universe. The Earth is part of this universe, and outer space and everything in it is part of the universe. All of that was clumped together and then expanded during the time of the Big Bang.

The verse is 100% accurate.

3) The Qur'an is not a book of science, but a book of SIGNS.

God revealed many things to Prophet Muhammad (saw) that he himself did not know about, yet God told him that these verses have special purposes meant for people to come in the future.

And here we are, we KNOW what the purpose was. These scientific miracles prove WHY the Qur'an was from the divine, and NOT an illiterate uneducated desert merchant living in the 7th century.

THIS is the purpose of the verses.

When scientists gain more knowledge, they then discover that whatever they learned was clearly mentioned in the Qur'an, and they HAVE been astounded, and many have also accepted Islam.

4) The word 'WE' in the verse is referring to God in a majestic way. God uses 'WE' many times in the Qur'an to demonstrate the majesty of His power.

This is simply English, it is one of the majestic terms, search it on Google.

Also, I hope you realize that your arguments are based on the ENGLISH translation. The reason I gave you 4 different translations is so that I can get as close to the Arabic as possible, but English will never 100% match the Arabic.

Ask any scientist, Arabic or English, they WILL agree this verse talks about the Big Bang. You are just in denial. I answered all your concerns.

 

[OurCreed]

Anyone here , please let me know if what I said above is wrong in regards to the verse..

How is it possible that Muhammad (saw) only picked the verses that were scientifically accurate? There were MANY theories back then, and some scientists had truth and falsehood all mixed in together with their theories.

I find it IMPOSSIBLE how an uneducated illiterate man could cherry pick specific verses and all of them happen to be proven true by scientists in the future...

Truly a work of God. Convince me otherwise.

I already answered your 'Heavens and Earths' concern to Paul.

 

[Gurtej]

How is it possible that Muhammad (saw) only picked the verses that were scientifically accurate? There were MANY theories back then, and some scientists had truth and falsehood all mixed in together with their theories.

I find it IMPOSSIBLE how an uneducated illiterate man could cherry pick specific verses and all of them happen to be proven true by scientists in the future...

Truly a work of God. Convince me otherwise.

I already answered your 'Heavens and Earths' concern to Paul.

The verse is against science .. OMG .. Take Islamic glasses of ur eyes..the long explanation u gave about Big Bang is as per science.. Show me the verses that describes it ... Earth and I mean earth and heaven were joined together ... Read the verse ... Plz plz plz and them come up with an argument..

I want u to show me the verse not ur interpretation..

 

[Gurtej]

1) Search up something called 'Guided Evolution' on Wikipedia...that is the Islamic Ahmadiyya viewpoint, which we believe to be the true Islamic viewpoint.

2) Funny how you mention 'vague'. We humans were given brains, and now that we have the knowledge, YOU yourself clearly identified that the verse was talking about the Big Bang, and that proves the verse was very clear.

You may not agree with the contents OF it, but you knew, and scientists knew.

The verse is very clear, and not vague.

You know what would make the verse INCORRECT? If the verse said something like, 'explosion', which is wrong, because the Big Bang was not an explosion.

Yet, the Qur'an mentions everything to be accurate.

The Heavens and the Earth means every single thing in this universe. The Earth is part of this universe, and outer space and everything in it is part of the universe. All of that was clumped together and then expanded during the time of the Big Bang.

The verse is 100% accurate.

3) The Qur'an is not a book of science, but a book of SIGNS.

God revealed many things to Prophet Muhammad (saw) that he himself did not know about, yet God told him that these verses have special purposes meant for people to come in the future.

And here we are, we KNOW what the purpose was. These scientific miracles prove WHY the Qur'an was from the divine, and NOT an illiterate uneducated desert merchant living in the 7th century.

THIS is the purpose of the verses.

When scientists gain more knowledge, they then discover that whatever they learned was clearly mentioned in the Qur'an, and they HAVE been astounded, and many have also accepted Islam.

4) The word 'WE' in the verse is referring to God in a majestic way. God uses 'WE' many times in the Qur'an to demonstrate the majesty of His power.

This is simply English, it is one of the majestic terms, search it on Google.

Also, I hope you realize that your arguments are based on the ENGLISH translation. The reason I gave you 4 different translations is so that I can get as close to the Arabic as possible, but English will never 100% match the Arabic.

Ask any scientist, Arabic or English, they WILL agree this verse talks about the Big Bang. You are just in denial. I answered all your concerns.

Mind giving examples of some reputable scientists? Plz no muslim ones ..and plz don't tell me u watching zakir niak