White Florida quarterback loses scholarship for using N-word on social media

[Subduction Zone]

Where I come from - and while I accept this may not be the case the world over - only arseholes say “******”, song or no song.

I’ll decline the offer to watch George Carlin, thanks.

So black people in general are now ********. Interesting.

But since you refuse to go to the short and very entertaining Carlin clip, words on their own are just words. It is the intention behind them that counts. Which is why it is fine when black people use that term and it is why he did not appear to be doing anything wrong by singing a popular song.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The thing is, the word itself is used rather frequently - by African-Americans, since they're essentially "allowed" to use it without social repercussions. In my neck of the woods, I've also occasionally heard it spoken by Hispanics and Native Americans, along with other epithets.

I have noticed that its overall usage has dropped considerably since when I was a kid.

Yeah, I occasionally hear black kids over here in England use it too. Perhaps not as widely as in the States. And I do get the argument that you can disarm a weaponised word by reclaiming it as your own. But it remains a loaded word, and surely most people must know that?

Very few people use the “C” word over here either, except either for comic or dramatic effect. It’s like a bomb going off when someone drops it into conversation.

 

[RestlessSoul]

So black people in general are now ********. Interesting.

But since you refuse to go to the short and very entertaining Carlin clip, words on their own are just words. It is the intention behind them that counts. Which is why it is fine when black people use that term and it is why he did not appear to be doing anything wrong by singing a popular song.

I don’t think it’s fine when anyone uses that word. When black people use it, I think it’s degrading. When white people use it, I think it’s reasonable they should expect negative consequences.

Carlin stole that routine from Lenny Bruce btw.

 

[We Never Know]

This is an issue, like with Mark Twain's books. Would a professor read any of the passages with derogatory terms? I doubt it. It will be in the books, films, works of art, etc.

But this is the point of it being literature, and in a context of history. A class that examines literature from a time where racism was more prevalent and common is important for young peaople to understand. Oddly, this is whast CRT is all about. This context of racism historically allows us to have perspective about social evolution. This is vastly different than a careless act by a white kid trying to look cool to his social media circle.

"Would a professor read any of the passages with derogatory terms? I doubt it."

"A St. John’s University professor has been fired for reading a passage containing the N-word from Twain’s anti-slavery novel “Pudd’nhead Wilson” in her “Literature of Satire” class."

Professor allegedly fired for reading racial slur from Mark Twain book

 

[Stevicus]

There is a lot of folks saying that he lost his scholarship because he sang a song. To my mind that isn't the issue. The issue is he recorded himself singing and he posted it on social media. It is the posting on social media that is the poor judgment. If it was a show tune he might be laughed at but it wouldn't include offensive language. The college wouldn't see that as a red flag of poor judgment, like the song he did post was. Here is an instutution that is going to invest tens of thousands of dollars in a person, and there's an incident that is a red flag. The kid didn't commit murder, he didn't hurt anyone, but he didn't think about what he was doing as he posted to social media, and the school likely wondered what else he might do and post.

Is it a harsh response? You bet. But it is a school and it has its standards and ethics. They can award and deny any scholarship they see fit. As I noted I wouldn't be surprised if the school was open to an appeal.

All of these are good points, but the ironic thing is in a lot of these cases, it's usually wealthy, establishment-level white liberals making the decision as to what they think is offensive or not offensive to people of color. There's no indication as to whether or not they bothered to ask anybody if it's offensive or even if they have much contact with any people of color at all. The "white liberal saviors" aren't necessarily all that well-received in some circles. There's an air of falsity and hypocrisy about it which some people can pick up on and see through.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don’t think it’s fine when anyone uses that word. When black people use it, I think it’s degrading. When white people use it, I think it’s reasonable they should expect negative consequences.

Carlin stole that routine from Lenny Bruce btw.

Lenny Brue had a slightly different take, but yes, he did rework an older joke. That happens quite a bit in the comedy business. And since many jokes are reworked I do not think that comedians think of it as stealing if a person adds a significant amount of his own material.

 

[Stevicus]

Yeah, I occasionally hear black kids over here in England use it too. Perhaps not as widely as in the States. And I do get the argument that you can disarm a weaponised word by reclaiming it as your own. But it remains a loaded word, and surely most people must know that?

Perhaps, though not everyone may understand the nuances or the connotations. Especially kids. People of the older generations who lived in earlier times had the experience of seeing things slowly change and understand the ramifications and effect of certain terms. But this kid is just a teenager - not even out of high school yet.

I recall when I was a kid (and I also saw the same phenomenon continue well into my adult years), there were some white kids who (for various reasons) would sometimes act like they were blacks from the ghetto - because they saw it as something "cool." I won't endeavor to try to explain their motives for doing so (although some might have grown up in or near majority-black areas and assimilated to some degree, which does happen), though there is a racist term for whites like that, which begins with "w" and rhymes with the "n-word." Of course, that was long before anyone ever heard of terms like "cultural appropriation."

I don't think it's necessarily quite so dissociative as it has been with some people (such as that former head of an NAACP chapter who said she was black but turned out to be white), but perhaps in the course of singing a song, one might forget oneself.

Very few people use the “C” word over here either, except either for comic or dramatic effect. It’s like a bomb going off when someone drops it into conversation.

Well, there's a few different words beginning with "C" that would probably be offensive.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, there's a few different words beginning with "C" that would probably be offensive.

Hey!! Let's leave religion out of this.

 

[F1fan]

"Would a professor read any of the passages with derogatory terms? I doubt it."

"A St. John’s University professor has been fired for reading a passage containing the N-word from Twain’s anti-slavery novel “Pudd’nhead Wilson” in her “Literature of Satire” class."

Professor allegedly fired for reading racial slur from Mark Twain book

That illustrates my point. A professor wouldn’t read such a passage. One did and was fired. Your example is an anomaly.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Perhaps, though not everyone may understand the nuances or the connotations. Especially kids. People of the older generations who lived in earlier times had the experience of seeing things slowly change and understand the ramifications and effect of certain terms. But this kid is just a teenager - not even out of high school yet.

I recall when I was a kid (and I also saw the same phenomenon continue well into my adult years), there were some white kids who (for various reasons) would sometimes act like they were blacks from the ghetto - because they saw it as something "cool." I won't endeavor to try to explain their motives for doing so (although some might have grown up in or near majority-black areas and assimilated to some degree, which does happen), though there is a racist term for whites like that, which begins with "w" and rhymes with the "n-word." Of course, that was long before anyone ever heard of terms like "cultural appropriation."

I don't think it's necessarily quite so dissociative as it has been with some people (such as that former head of an NAACP chapter who said she was black but turned out to be white), but perhaps in the course of singing a song, one might forget oneself.



Well, there's a few different words beginning with "C" that would probably be offensive.

I’m certainly very glad there was no social media when I was that kid’s age. And for the record, I think he’s been harshly treated. His generation have had to negotiate social media at a time when wider society hasn’t really formulated a set of standards, or guidelines.

 

[Stevicus]

That illustrates my point. A professor wouldn’t read such a passage. One did and was fired. Your example is an anomaly.

Even then, reading the linked article, it doesn't appear she was fired for exactly that:

On March 3 she was called into a meeting with HR about her use of the N-word in class, the subsequent discussion of it and a comment she allegedly made about a Black student’s hair. Fischthal said she only made a remark about a student’s head being wrapped up during class and it had nothing to do with her hair.

She said she was also criticized for mentioning her family’s experience in the Holocaust during class.

On March 5 she was suspended pending an investigation she had violated the university’s policy against bias. On April 29 she was fired.

Fischthal said she always received good performance reviews from both her bosses and students.

Attorneys for FIRE (Foundation for Individual Rights in Education) sent the Rev. Brian J. Shanley, SJU president, a letter late Friday calling on him to reinstate Fischthal.

“Quoting (Mark Twain’s) work in a class on satire falls squarely within the protection afforded by academic freedom, which gives faculty members the breathing room to determine whether — and how — to discuss material students might find offensive,” the FIRE letter read.

When contacted by The Post, Brian Browne, a spokesman for St. John’s, said that “if your assertion is that she was fired for reading aloud from a Mark Twain novel, that is incorrect.” He refused to elaborate, saying the university does not comment on personnel matters.

“I just know I’ll miss my students and classes,” Fischthal said. “I love teaching.”

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yeah, we shouldn’t be so scared of a word, that we erase it from the lexicon. But words have power, some more than others; certain words need to be used carefully, and their impact needs to be considered.

That said, young people do stupid things, and hopefully learn from them. The young man in this case seems to have paid a very high price to learn his lesson. I think the dumbest thing he did btw, was posting his dumbness on social media.

What about the person who wrote those lyrics?

Are you going to judge him in the same way?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It does leave me wondering. We censor harshly a kid singing a song due to offensive language against African Americans.

I don't think we censor kids singing songs with offensive language about women, or Jews, both of which abound in rap music.

I'm thinking let's maybe not censor kids for singing songs. Picking which offensive lyrics you're allowed to buy can't be sung and posted is somewhat absurd.