White Privilege Conference

[Alceste]

No, I'm not. And, no, they wouldn't. There are far more impoverished white people in this country than black people. In fact, half of all people living in poverty in the US are non-Hispanic whites. A fact very few people recognize.

I think there are far more whites overall, so there are still statistically fewer impoverished white people than minorities as a percentage of the white total population.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think there are far more whites overall, so there are still statistically fewer impoverished white people than minorities as a percentage of the white total population.

You must be a math genius.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

For what it's worth, the Kaiser Family Foundation has offered the statistics on poverty rates by race/ethnicity.

Overall-
White: 13%
Black: 35%
Hispanic: 33%
Other: 22%
TOTAL: 20%

It also lists the percentages state by state to get a more detailed picture.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

For what it's worth, the Kaiser Family Foundation has offered the statistics on poverty rates by race/ethnicity.

Overall-
White: 13%
Black: 35%
Hispanic: 33%
Other: 22%
TOTAL: 20%

It also lists the percentages state by state to get a more detailed picture.

Indeed, if one takes the next step and applies those percentages to the population of each race in the US, one would find that the largest population of impoverished people, by a substantial margin, is white people, as was a primary component of my response to dustin. I'm not really sure what your point is in posting this, but it certainly doesn't address my response in any substantive way.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Indeed, if one takes the next step and applies those percentages to the population of each race in the US, one would find that the largest population of impoverished people, by a substantial margin, is white people, as was a primary component of my response to dustin. I'm not really sure what your point is in posting this, but it certainly doesn't address my response in any substantive way.

To continue, the thing about using statistics to prove a point is that there are many ways to view statistics.

For example, if we look at the US Census information regarding poverty between 1966 and 2011, we see that in 1966 they measured the percentage of black Americans who were living in poverty at about 42% and white Americans at about 11%. In 2011, this measure was 27.5% for black Americans and 9.8% for white Americans.

Using these statistics, we can see that the ratio of poor white Americans fell slightly (about 11% less poor white Americans), while the ratio of poor black Americans fell substantially more (about 35% less poor black Americans). By this measure we could conclude that for the last half-a-century, black Americans have enjoyed a substantial advantage in economic growth over white Americans.

Even since the early 90's, there are about 20% less impoverished Hispanic and black Americans, while the poverty rate for whites is about the same. The lack of decrease in impoverished white Americans compared to Hispanic and black Americans would belie the notion that the actual root of socioeconomic disadvantage is rooted in race.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Indeed, if one takes the next step and applies those percentages to the population of each race in the US, one would find that the largest population of impoverished people, by a substantial margin, is white people, as was a primary component of my response to dustin. I'm not really sure what your point is in posting this, but it certainly doesn't address my response in any substantive way.

I put it up as a source for comparison of the numbers for all sides to consider.

Also, if whites are by majority make up the poor in the U.S., then what is the reason for the narrative in the culture of the "welfare queen" that typically portrays a woman of color as the face of why the system doesn't work?

That question isn't directed solely to you, btw. It's an open question.

 

[Alceste]

You must be a math genius.

For what it's worth, the Kaiser Family Foundation has offered the statistics on poverty rates by race/ethnicity.

Overall-
White: 13%
Black: 35%
Hispanic: 33%
Other: 22%
TOTAL: 20%

It also lists the percentages state by state to get a more detailed picture.

Nope, I guess I'm just a really good guesser.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Nope, I guess I'm just a really good guesser.

You must be a guessing genius.

 

[Alceste]

You must be a guessing genius.

Seems so.

 

[dust1n]

No, I'm not.

It's a joke. You know, being generally noting that poverty holds people back in anyway. Ah, whatever.

And, no, they wouldn't.

Yeah, I guess a distinction is made there. You be right.

There are far more impoverished white people in this country than black people. In fact, half of all people living in poverty in the US are non-Hispanic whites. A fact very few people recognize.

I'm not sure who would disagree with that. By virtue of there many being many more white people in the country, duh.

When I said "I think many people recognize the root issue," I was implying that socioeconomic status issues be the root of race issues, not the other way around. I'm not sure if that clears up a misunderstanding or not.

The lack of decrease in impoverished white Americans compared to Hispanic and black Americans would belie the notion that the actual root of socioeconomic disadvantage is rooted in race.

Yea, I guess I worded that poorly. I meant to imply the opposite.

 

[dust1n]

Correct, and I agree with her entire article 100% percent.

I couldn't do that, but I could agree with some of the elements. None of that discredits the need for legitimate cause for public institutions to change in order to address obvious injustices. That doesn't mean disadvantaged people aren't capable of exceeding despite their circumstances, it means that there is a need for the institutions such as courts, prisons, and schools (which is basically what CTR is concerned with) to address obviously racial disparities that can't be accounted fully by other factors, but are empirically measured time and time again.

The problem occurs when someone makes the assumption that just because someone is white, they have special privileges or advantages over other races when this is a false assumption to make.

I think the the notion of "white privilege" basically is noting that white people have the privilege of not dealing with what minorities may have to deal with due to institutions. That doesn't assume that everyone white person in the world is doing great with no problems whatsoever. I still don't see how people keep making that confusion.

Now, I was going to debate every point you made earlier, but there are way too many factors involved and it’s simply not that black and white. How coincidental. People do not get arrested because of the color of their skin. People tend to get arrested because they have committed some type of crime and got caught doing it. I don’t know why people continue to bring up this argument as if minorities for some reason get singled out by police just because of their skin color.

"NEW YORK – Black people are 3.7 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than white people despite comparable usage rates, according to a report released today by the American Civil Liberties Union. The report also found that marijuana arrests now make up nearly half of all drug arrests, with police making over 7 million marijuana possession arrests between 2001 and 2010. "The War on Marijuana in Black and White: Billions of Dollars Wasted on Racially Biased Arrests" is the first-ever report to examine nationwide state and county marijuana arrest data by race.

"The war on marijuana has disproportionately been a war on people of color," said Ezekiel Edwards, director of the ACLU Criminal Law Reform Project and one of the primary authors of the report. "State and local governments have aggressively enforced marijuana laws selectively against Black people and communities, needlessly ensnaring hundreds of thousands of people in the criminal justice system at tremendous human and financial cost."


The findings show that while there were pronounced racial disparities in marijuana arrests 10 years ago, they have grown significantly worse. In counties with the worst disparities, Blacks were as much as 30 times more likely to be arrested. The racial disparities exist in all regions of the U.S., as well as in both large and small counties, cities and rural areas, and in both high- and low-income communities. Disparities are also consistently high whether Blacks make up a small or a large percentage of a county's overall population."

https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-r...ds-overwhelming-racial-bias-marijuana-arrests

"A series of studies conducted during the past thirty years has examined the degree to which disproportionate rates of incarceration for African Americans are related to greater involvement in crime. Examining national data for 1979, criminologist Alfred Blumstein concluded that 80 percent of racial disparity could be explained by greater involvement in crime, although a subsequent study reduced this figure to 76 percent for the 1991 prison population. (Alfred Blumstein, Racial Disproportionality of U.S. Prison Populations Revisited, 64 U. Colo. L. Rev. 743, 751 (1993).) But a similar analysis of 2004 imprisonment data by sentencing scholar Michael Tonry now finds that only 61 percent of the black incarceration rate is explained by disproportionate engagement in criminal behavior. (Michael Tonry & Matthew Melewski, The Malign Effects of Drug and Crime Control Policies on Black Americans, 37 Crime & Justice 1 (2008).) Thus, nearly 40 percent of the racial disparity in incarceration today cannot be explained by differential offending patterns."

Justice for All? Challenging Racial Disparities in the Criminal Justice System | Section of Individual Rights and Responsibilities

In 2009 there were 7,389,208 arrests made against white people and 3,027,153 arrests made against black people. Remember they did not get arrested because of their skin color. They got arrested for committing some type of crime. These numbers accurately reflect the demographic racial makeup of our country as well. http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0325.pdf

Number one, obviously the majority of people who get arrested are done so because they committed a crime. However, that does not mean that every crime leads to an arrest, or that every arrest leads to a conviction, or that every conviction carries an equal sentence. Number two, I realize there are more white people who are arrested.

Also, having a discussion or debate about racial inequality is one thing. Having a debate on white privilege is something completely different. The two should not even be allowed in the same debate or conversation, because it becomes nothing more than an argument from ignorance, and never gains any traction. It’s like driving a car with frictionless wheels. It’s never going to go anywhere.

Um, I'm not sure how one can isolate racial inequality and white privilege. That fact that white people are on the positive side of inequality (in America) is basically what white privilege is.

Well, as Carrie so eloquently put it in her article, “At some point, we own our pathologies. We can accept that our parents’ and friends’ negative choices are not ours. We can embrace or reject involuntary exposure to dysfunction. We are privileged to make these choices each day.” I would rather reject the cynicism than buy into it. But that's just me.

And I would rather confront truth than leave with a warm, comfy feeling about my country and the historical context in which I exist. Just a personal preference.

 

[Slapstick]

Number one, obviously the majority of people who get arrested are done so because they committed a crime. However, that does not mean that every crime leads to an arrest, or that every arrest leads to a conviction, or that every conviction carries an equal sentence. Number two, I realize there are more white people who are arrested.

Okay so what is your problem then? It accurately reflects the demographic makeup of our country. If there was discrimination taking place then there would be more black people being arrested than whites or these numbers would be equal, and they aren’t. I am not going to debate these issues on a state by state basis either. If a state has a problem then they need to figure out how to resolve it. The only thing I can add to this is if marijuana was legal then no one would be serving time for it, but that wouldn’t change crime rates. They will still occur.

 

[Curious George]

Okay so what is your problem then? It accurately reflects the demographic makeup of our country. If there was discrimination taking place then there would be more black people being arrested than whites or these numbers would be equal, and they aren’t. I am not going to debate these issues on a state by state basis either. If a state has a problem then they need to figure out how to resolve it. The only thing I can add to this is if marijuana was legal then no one would be serving time for it, but that wouldn’t change crime rates. They will still occur.

Well I am glad that you have moved to statistics, since privilege such as "white privilege" is about statistical truths. While these truths do provide fodder for individual reflection, individual cases carry too many variables to pinpoint privilege. So, the question is "are there statistical advantages such as lighter sentencing in criminal convictions, easier access to housing and employment, less instances of workplace discrimination, etc. found in correlation to race?

 

[Slapstick]

Well I am glad that you have moved to statistics, since privilege such as "white privilege" is about statistical truths. While these truths do provide fodder for individual reflection, individual cases carry too many variables to pinpoint privilege. So, the question is "are there statistical advantages such as lighter sentencing in criminal convictions, easier access to housing and employment, less instances of workplace discrimination, etc. found in correlation to race?

No there isn't. If someone has money then they can get whatever type of place they want.
Since we are on the subject of equal housing. I always see white bumbs on the streets. Why do I only see white bumbs and not black bumbs? My guess is they have a place stay while white bumbs do not.

 

[Curious George]

No there isn't. If someone has money then they can get whatever type of place they want.
Since we are on the subject of equal housing. I always see white bumbs on the streets. Why do I only see white bumbs and not black bumbs? My guess is they have a place stay while white bumbs do not.

So again, if I can provide evidence that there is statistical data which correlates to race on the aforementioned topics, you will simply admit that you are wrong?

My guess at why you see more people who are homeless that are white is because of both your geographic location and the fact that there are more people who are homeless that are white. but on a similar topic, how many homelessness
Children do you see? Are you aware that families with children is the largest population of people who are homeless in the U.S.? Moreover, this is also the fastest growing demographic. Just because "slapstick" doesn't see it, does not mean that it isn't there.

 

[Slapstick]

Sorry, I do not support nor do I promote bigotry and I’m done debating a topic as bigoted as this.

 

[Curious George]

Sorry, I do not support nor do I promote bigotry and I’m done debating a topic as bigoted as this.

Thank you for the well wishes. I hope you have a nice day as well.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yea, I guess I worded that poorly. I meant to imply the opposite.

Ah, understood.

 

[dust1n]

Okay so what is your problem then? It accurately reflects the demographic makeup of our country.

My various sources claim otherwise. I've only gotten opinion pieces from ya so far.

If there was discrimination taking place then there would be more black people being arrested than whites or these numbers would be equal, and they aren’t. I am not going to debate these issues on a state by state basis either. If a state has a problem then they need to figure out how to resolve it. The only thing I can add to this is if marijuana was legal then no one would be serving time for it, but that wouldn’t change crime rates. They will still occur.

I literally just provided evidence that it does happen in the modern age. No doubt way better now than 1960, but I have provided one source already that states definitely that the disparity between white people in jail and black people in jail are not even close to proportionate compared to the population, and the disproportion has yet to been accounted for by any other tested factor.

I mean, obviously you just want to believe what you already believe at this point, if I am right. If this is so, just say so, so I can go have discussion with people who read my arguments and actually respond to them. EDIT: Never mind, you already did.

Yes, careful detailed arguments make me quite the bigot.

 

[Curious George]

My various sources claim otherwise. I've only gotten opinion pieces from ya so far.

I literally just provided evidence that it does happen in the modern age. No doubt way better now than 1960, but I have provided one source already that states definitely that the disparity between white people in jail and black people in jail are not even close to proportionate compared to the population, and the disproportion has yet to been accounted for by any other tested factor.

I mean, obviously you just want to believe what you already believe at this point, if I am right. If this is so, just say so, so I can go have discussion with people who read my arguments and actually respond to them. EDIT: Never mind, you already did.

Yes, careful detailed arguments make me quite the bigot.

You really should have asked if data would change his mind. The idea of concepts such as privilege are oft taken quite personal.