Who are the inclusive Hindus?

[Amala]

Namaste-

What might be intriguing, as an aside, is to find the exact passages in Hindu scripture that led to this practice. Is it Vedic? From the Puranas? From the Manusmriti? Somewhere else? But regardless of its origin, my aim is to discover which denominations do not encourage it.

 

[Vinayaka]

deleted

 

[Satsangi]

Namaste-

What might be intriguing, as an aside, is to find the exact passages in Hindu scripture that led to this practice. Is it Vedic? From the Puranas? From the Manusmriti? Somewhere else? But regardless of its origin, my aim is to discover which denominations do not encourage it.

I am not that well versed with the Vedas in detail- but have heard from someone. I do know it does exist in the Smritis- for exampe Yajnavalkya Smriti.

Regards,

 

[Marble]

In Tantrism women enjoy a high level of respect and untouchability does not exist.
Also some sects as the Lingayatas do not accept this.
The Ramakrishna order should have no concern for untouchability as it's founder (Swami Vivekananda) was a disciple of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa who did not respect that concept.

 

[Satsangi]

In Tantrism women enjoy a high level of respect and untouchability does not exist.
Also some sects as the Lingayatas do not accept this.
The Ramakrishna order should have no concern for untouchability as it's founder (Swami Vivekananda) was a disciple of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa who did not respect that concept.

Respecting women has nothing to do with the "menses rule"; women are given the status of mother in most sects and respected as such.

Regards,

 

[Amala]

In Tantrism women enjoy a high level of respect and untouchability does not exist.
Also some sects as the Lingayatas do not accept this.
The Ramakrishna order should have no concern for untouchability as it's founder (Swami Vivekananda) was a disciple of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa who did not respect that concept.

Namaste & thank you Marble. This is very helpful. I did see that Sri Ramakrsna suggests staying a good distance away from women in his Gospel. I wonder how that would impact inclusivity of women in the Order.

Amala

 

[K.Venugopal]

Namaste & thank you Marble. This is very helpful. I did see that Sri Ramakrsna suggests staying a good distance away from women in his Gospel. I wonder how that would impact inclusivity of women in the Order.

Amala

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa himself was married. So if he had talked about staying a good distance away from women, he must have only meant about not getting ensnared into a pure physicality of a relationship.

 

[K.Venugopal]

It must be borne in mind in this discussion about regulations of entry into temples that all spaces occupied in common, whether in public domain or in the privacy of a home, would necessarily need to have some regulations to facilitate the sanity of behaviour. What those regulations are would depend on a heritage of shared experience and understanding. It is of course the right of a newcomer to a space to feel offended by the logic of regulations in that particular space but an understanding of the background of the regulations would enable us to appreciate its application or the need to alter the regulations. After all, reformation has never been a taboo word, particularly in Hinduism.

 

[Amala]

It must be borne in mind in this discussion about regulations of entry into temples that all spaces occupied in common, whether in public domain or in the privacy of a home, would necessarily need to have some regulations to facilitate the sanity of behaviour. What those regulations are would depend on a heritage of shared experience and understanding. It is of course the right of a newcomer to a space to feel offended by the logic of regulations in that particular space but an understanding of the background of the regulations would enable us to appreciate its application or the need to alter the regulations. After all, reformation has never been a taboo word, particularly in Hinduism.

What a beautiful comment, K. Venugopal! That would be very helpful to have a resource for better understanding of traditions. Some Hindus view Hinduism more as a culture and less a religion, which seems to be similar to what you're saying, if I'm understanding correctly. There is even an atheistic branch of Hinduism!

Though it would work for many, I think "offended" is a little too strong for my own experience of this thing. I am surprised by it and it is not my dharma to be involved with groups who have this rule in place is all.

Thanks. Namaste,

Amala

 

[Marble]

Namaste & thank you Marble. This is very helpful. I did see that Sri Ramakrsna suggests staying a good distance away from women in his Gospel. I wonder how that would impact inclusivity of women in the Order.

Amala

There is the Sri Sarada Math which is for nuns.
Ramakrishna had some women-disciples, his wife (Sarada Devi) had some too (I think).
This staying away from women was ment for the monks I believe.

 

[Amala]

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa himself was married. So if he had talked about staying a good distance away from women, he must have only meant about not getting ensnared into a pure physicality of a relationship.

I think you're right. Now that I look at the passage more carefully (Gospel Vol. II, p. 603) I see he is only suggesting these men be very, very careful around women. Perhaps he knows these particular men do not have strong control over their passions and so tells them they should "keep themselves at least 50 cubits away from women lest their spiritual mood should be destroyed." There are different lengths of cubit, but the closest I could find to India is the Persian one, which Wiki says is 500mm.... so.... that would translate to about ...100 yards??? That's pretty careful! lol The thing I don't like about his phrasing is that it sounds like he blames the women, saying they "rob a man of his spirituality" rather than a weakness of concentration and focus in any person can cause problems and therefore it is the responsibility of them to stay the course. It is not the fault of the candy that it is eaten.

 

[Riverwolf]

Namaste & thank you Marble. This is very helpful. I did see that Sri Ramakrsna suggests staying a good distance away from women in his Gospel. I wonder how that would impact inclusivity of women in the Order.

Amala

When Ramakrishna spoke of "women and gold", those were the terms he chose to when he was talking about "lust and greed."

 

[Vinayaka]

There is a story about two monks in an order where they were not supposed to touch women. They story goes like this:

The two monks were on foot pilgrimage to a far off temple as directed by Guru. There was a sudden downpour resulting in a swollen river. As they approached they met a small girl wishing to go across. One of the monks, realising the girl's predicament, bent over and pick-a-backed her over to the other side, before beginning again on the sojourn.

Three days later the other monk could no longer hold his feelings about it, and said, "Brother, I cannot believe you picked that female back there up. What became of you? Have you lost your mind? Couldn't you remember the disciplines regarding this?"

The monk who had kindly carried the girl across said, "I carried her for 3 minutes. You carried her for 3 days."

Something about worldly attachment I think.

 

[Riverwolf]

There is a story about two monks in an order where they were not supposed to touch women. They story goes like this:

The two monks were on foot pilgrimage to a far off temple as directed by Guru. There was a sudden downpour resulting in a swollen river. As they approached they met a small girl wishing to go across. One of the monks, realising the girl's predicament, bent over and pick-a-backed her over to the other side, before beginning again on the sojourn.

Three days later the other monk could no longer hold his feelings about it, and said, "Brother, I cannot believe you picked that female back there up. What became of you? Have you lost your mind? Couldn't you remember the disciplines regarding this?"

The monk who had kindly carried the girl across said, "I carried her for 3 minutes. You carried her for 3 days."

Something about worldly attachment I think.

I love these stories!!:yes:

 

[Amala]

I love these stories!!:yes:

Me too. Thank you, Vinayaka.

 

[Satsangi]

There is a story about two monks in an order where they were not supposed to touch women. They story goes like this:

The two monks were on foot pilgrimage to a far off temple as directed by Guru. There was a sudden downpour resulting in a swollen river. As they approached they met a small girl wishing to go across. One of the monks, realising the girl's predicament, bent over and pick-a-backed her over to the other side, before beginning again on the sojourn.

Three days later the other monk could no longer hold his feelings about it, and said, "Brother, I cannot believe you picked that female back there up. What became of you? Have you lost your mind? Couldn't you remember the disciplines regarding this?"

The monk who had kindly carried the girl across said, "I carried her for 3 minutes. You carried her for 3 days."

There is what is called "Aapat-kaal" Dharma- meaning the Dharmas when a life is in danger. In such situations, even monks are allowed to touch the females to save their lives. But, once out of danger, they should resume their previous Dharmas.

Regards,

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Saint Ramakraishna said
"live life like a lotus leaf"; meaning like the lotus leaf which lives and grows in water, never has attachment with the water.
Attachment is also understood differently like have sex with girls but no marriage is taken as remaining un-attached.
Unattachment should mean that even desires for sex does not arise likewise one partakes everything in existence but remains desireless and so unattached.
Love & rgds

 

[K.Venugopal]

Friends,
Saint Ramakraishna said
"live life like a lotus leaf"; meaning like the lotus leaf which lives and grows in water, never has attachment with the water.
Attachment is also understood differently like have sex with girls but no marriage is taken as remaining un-attached.
Unattachment should mean that even desires for sex does not arise likewise one partakes everything in existence but remains desireless and so unattached.
Love & rgds

Being detached - that's the whole idea. But the word detached has also taken on the connotation of being cold hearted. Probably a more precise warning could be conveyed by the word 'entangled'. Do anything but don't get entangled with your activities - that would end in bondage.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Venu,

Good to find your response after a long gap.
The word non-attachment may be a better alternative word than unattached or detached.
After all words are only pointers towards the understanding.

Love & rgds

 

[Amala]

Namaste,

I have not been successful in my quest to find organised groups who do not in some way exclude segments of society. I suppose that's wise simply for maintaining a focus for their meetings. Perhaps that's inherent in all religions - and I hope not to begin a debate here - but I suppose that is partly why I don't count myself amongst the religious. I've become very doubtful, but I still wonder if there are temples like the Hare Krishna one here in Detroit, Michigan that invite everyone and anyone to come in and worship. Perhaps my quest will wind up in a more academic environment for Vedic study and the worship part will remain private or in nature since that belongs to us all, but it would be nice to share that part, too.

I've loved the comments people have offered here. I'm new to this site and have had a wonderful introduction to RF in this thread. Thanks, everyone. Hopefully, these intelligent and mutually respectful additions to this topic will continue.

Amala