Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?

[Tumah]

So until an explanation has been demonstrated to be false, it should be accepted it as true? Is that what you're saying?

That sounds good to me.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

That sounds good to me.

So it follows that you accept the truth of Bigfoot, UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, the Tooth Fairy, panspermia, and (most importantly) trolls?

...

See: Ignorance, Argument from

 

[Tumah]

So it follows that you accept the truth of Bigfoot, UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, the Tooth Fairy, panspermia, and (most importantly) trolls?

...

See: Ignorance, Argument from

Uhhh... when did we stop talking about Scriptures?

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Let's take a look at option 3.

It is true that no one can, yet simultaneously true that somehow God can. You just gotta believe.

The first part 'It is true that no one can' is implying that what comes from a woman is unclean and nobody can change that. Hardly a position a modern liberal Christian would proclaim.

How certain are you about that claim you just made? The scripture in this case is using the word "clean" to refer to sin, correct?

So your "modern, liberal Christianity" does not maintain that humankind is inherently sinful? Are there versions of this "modern, liberal Christianity" that do adhere to the doctrine of original sin, or are you asserting that no true "modern, liberal Christian" could adhere to this belief?

The second part sounds like they are taking a leap of faith just to cover up apparently conflicting things. I think any person with a liberal modern view would be loathe to pick that option.

So the "modern liberal God" isn't omnipotent, correct?

Liberals look at such things as the Book of Job as religious stories with a message that has to be viewed in the context of its time.

In the case of Job, one of the contextual conceits appears to be that God can manifest and speak in an earthly language. So your "modern, liberal Christianity" would never stoop to making such a claim, correct?

Atheists like to pin conservative beliefs to Christians as that is easier to criti--

Pardon the interruption, but since you've opted to introduce the terms, I think it is incumbent on you to offer your definition of "conservative" and "conservative Christian" before you're allowed to proceed.

Thanks!

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Uhhh... when did we stop talking about Scriptures?

Did you not just agree that it "sounded good to you" to believe in a proposition until it has been proven to be false? Or is your apparent gullibility limited strictly to scriptural matters?

 

[Tumah]

Did you not just agree that it "sounded good to you" to believe in a proposition until it has been proven to be false? Or is your apparent gullibility limited strictly to scriptural matters?

Only Scriptural matters, obviously.

 

[Unification]

"Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble.
He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
And doth thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee?
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." ~ Job 14:1-4

"Not one?"

Q. - Assuming that Jesus existed, was he a "man that is born of a woman?"
Q. - Is God "one?" Is God "not one?"

If Jesus was a man that was born of a woman, then how could he have been considered clean? The Bible clearly indicates that NO ONE can bring something clean out of an unclean thing.

If you wish to assert that God can bring what is pure from the impure, then this scripture appears to be either (at best) contradictory or (at worse) demonstrably false.

I choose option 5: Job is speaking of literal humans, and the Christ is a seed born and planted into the human's mind. Wisdom, knowledge, and the light of God, truth and physical life personified metaphorically. The pure clean seed most reject to grow within because self gratification, and their ego's, and the desires of the flesh are of more importance, being unclean. A man born of a woman in scripture is not literal. A child is also not literal.

 

[Unification]

"Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble.
He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
And doth thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee?
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." ~ Job 14:1-4

"Not one?"

Q. - Assuming that Jesus existed, was he a "man that is born of a woman?"
Q. - Is God "one?" Is God "not one?"

If Jesus was a man that was born of a woman, then how could he have been considered clean? The Bible clearly indicates that NO ONE can bring something clean out of an unclean thing.

If you wish to assert that God can bring what is pure from the impure, then this scripture appears to be either (at best) contradictory or (at worse) demonstrably false.

Also, God is "one." The Christ (messiah, manchild, and saving seed) must be planted in the mind and grown from the heart, reaching the brain and then the flood/pouring down of rain from the heavens(brain) through the brain stem and into the body. Cosmic energy(light). Holy Spirit, Kundalini,etc.
Christ conscious, Buddah conscious, Braham conscious... Whichever for whatever religion. Same God. Same cosmic energy.
Same God gave us "life" and a physical body to reside in to carry out creation. "Through" and "in" this physical body we create, internally and externally.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Only Scriptural matters, obviously.

So you view scriptures in the same way some people view Bigfoot, The Loch Ness Monster, UFOs, panspermia, and Trickle Down Economics?

 

[NulliuSINverba]

The Christ (messiah, manchild, and saving seed) must be planted in the mind and grown from the heart, reaching the brain and then the flood/pouring down of rain from the heavens(brain) through the brain stem and into the body. Cosmic energy(light). Holy Spirit, Kundalini,etc.
Christ conscious, Buddah conscious, Braham conscious... Whichever for whatever religion. Same God. Same cosmic energy.

Flaked-Out Hippie Couple says:

"Wow maaaaaan. That's deeeeeep."

 

[Unification]

Flaked-Out Hippie Couple says:

"Wow man. That's deep."

That's the scriptures. Deep spiritually and internally, and I have some flaked out hippie fans!!

 

[George-ananda]

How certain are you about that claim you just made? The scripture in this case is using the word "clean" to refer to sin, correct?

So your "modern, liberal Christianity" does not maintain that humankind is inherently sinful? Are there versions of this "modern, liberal Christianity" that do adhere to the doctrine of original sin, or are you asserting that no true "modern, liberal Christian" could adhere to this belief?

I am asserting that at least some Liberal/Progressive Christians do not adhere to the doctrine of original sin. And that those people had no selection in the voting.

I recently saw a book for purchase on the Progressive Christianity.Org website:
A Better Atonement: Beyond the Depraved Doctrine of Original Sin
by Tony Jones

 

[rusra02]

Let's see. All humans are born sinful except for Jesus? Am I understanding you correctly?

Would you care to explain why your rationalization(s) shouldn't be dismissed as special pleading?

...

And while you're at it, perhaps you'd care to speculate as to why simple forgiveness of humanity's shortcomings appears to be a declaration that is impossible for God? Why do you suppose he felt obliged to resort to the elaborate Rube Goldberg device of crucifixion?

Yes, I believe the Bible teaches that all humans are born sinful, except for Jesus. (1 Peter 2:21)Adam and Eve's sin was not due to human weakness. As perfect creatures, their sin was deliberate and with full knowledge of the consequences. If God had immediately destroyed them, we would not have existed and God's purpose to fill the earth with righteous humans would have been thwarted. Thus, I believe God mercifully allowed sinful humans to be born, to whom he could grant the gift of everlasting life. God did this "demonstrate his own righteousness in this present season, so that he might be righteous even when declaring righteous the man who has faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:26) IMO, God balanced justice and mercy perfectly, providing a legal basis to forgive sins through the sacrifice of a perfect human life, that of his beloved Son.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Yes, I believe the Bible teaches that all humans are born sinful, except for Jesus.

So God manipulated reality to prevent Mary's inherent sinfulness from contaminating Jesus? Jesus was basically like a sort of Boy In The Bubble?

 

[rusra02]

So God manipulated reality to prevent Mary's inherent sinfulness from contaminating Jesus? Jesus was basically like a sort of Boy In The Bubble?

Exactly how God protected his Son in Mary's womb, the Bible does not say. It does say “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God's Son." (Luke 1:35) I believe our Creator is able to do whatever is necessary to accomplish his purpose.(Luke 1:37)