Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe God is always God whether in the Son or as the Father.
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Who created all things: God or the Son?
- Thread starter Soapy
- Start date
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is false. The Son has a body and the Father does not, so they are not the same thing. What is the same is God in both cases.
Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God (אֱלֹהִים (ʾelohim) plural) created the heavens and the earth."
John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created."
John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created."
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
May I ask what translation you are using for that, please?
InChrist
Free4ever
What other kind of Son would God the Father have? If Jesus is the one and only begotten Son of God, how could He not be God? I believe that since Jesus is the unique Son of God, He therefore must be God by nature with all the same God- qualities, characteristics, and attributes of His Father.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If Jesus is the one and only begotten Son of God, how could He be God the Father? The Son is not the Father.
I believe that since Jesus is the Son of God, He shares the qualities, characteristics, and attributes of His Father such as Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, and Patient, but God has some attributes that are unique to God such as All-powerful, All-knowing, Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, and Immaterial.
The New English Translation, a.k.a. the NET Bible.
Here is there "footnote" regarding "fully God" (with my added emphasis)...
Or “and what God was the Word was.” Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (theos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb. A definite meaning for the term is reflected in the traditional rendering “the word was God.” From a technical standpoint, though, it is preferable to see a qualitative aspect to anarthrous θεός in John 1:1c (ExSyn 266-69). Translations like the NEB, REB, and Moffatt are helpful in capturing the sense in John 1:1c, that the Word was fully deity in essence (just as much God as God the Father). However, in contemporary English “the Word was divine” (Moffatt) does not quite catch the meaning since “divine” as a descriptive term is not used in contemporary English exclusively of God. The translation “what God was the Word was” is perhaps the most nuanced rendering, conveying that everything God was in essence, the Word was too. This points to unity of essence between the Father and the Son without equating the persons. However, in surveying a number of native speakers of English, some of whom had formal theological training and some of whom did not, the editors concluded that the fine distinctions indicated by “what God was the Word was” would not be understood by many contemporary readers. Thus the translation “the Word was fully God” was chosen because it is more likely to convey the meaning to the average English reader that the Logos (which “became flesh and took up residence among us” in John 1:14 and is thereafter identified in the Fourth Gospel as Jesus) is one in essence with God the Father. The previous phrase, “the Word was with God,” shows that the Logos is distinct in person from God the Father.sn And the Word was fully God. John’s theology consistently drives toward the conclusion that Jesus, the incarnate Word, is just as much God as God the Father. This can be seen, for example, in texts like John 10:30 (“The Father and I are one”), 17:11 (“so that they may be one just as we are one”), and 8:58 (“before Abraham came into existence, I am”). The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”); rather it affirms that the Word and God are one in essence.
Here are some other translations of John 1:1-3 that I use...
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." NIV
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people." NRSVue
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." ESV
InChrist
Free4ever
I didn’t say the Son is the Father, nor do I believe the Bible says that. I am saying that the Son of God would have the same qualities, attributes, and eternal nature as His Father, therefore the Son would be God as His Father.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am confused. If the Son is not the Father, how could the Son be God as His Father?
InChrist
Free4ever
I believe in the eternal triune Godhead ; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One God, composed of three Persons each possessing the same omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God-Nature.
The Trinity
Many Christians are at a loss to understand, much less to defend, the "Trinity." Critics argue that that word is not even found in the Bible. To deal with that issue, we must begin with God,
YellowFeather
Member
Jesus is not God nor claims to be God, even tells us that he is not God. Jesus is only the Son of God, Jehovah is God, and Jesus is the Son of God. Jehovah sent Jesus is the form of man to be a man offering because God could not take the fall of being a man that would be a sin and God is all righteous without sin. Romans 8 1:3 God sent his Son in likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. when Jesus went back to heaven he now sits at the right hand of God.. Numbers 23:19 God is not a Man, that he should lie, neither the son of a man that he should repent. Jesus is also the son of a man. The Bible has a lot of words and verses to read. you have to read the whole bible to understand the whole truth. If you miss words you will miss the whole truth of the word.
The New Testament clearly says that Jesus is God. I believe what it says, not your flawed interpretation.
John 10:30, "I and the Father are one"
John 14:6-10a, "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?"
John 17:20-21a, "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you."
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, the New Testament does not say that Jesus is God. You believe that Jesus is God because of your flawed interpretation.
“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of the Father. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one. Jesus also shares some (but not all) the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one.
Jesus was a Manifestation of God but Jesus was also a Servant of God, and that is why Jesus said to the Jews:
John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
John 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Jesus was able to do the works of the Father because the Father was in Him. Jesus said He could do nothing by Himself.
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Jesus clearly differentiated Himself from the Father in the verses above and that alone means that Jesus could not be God.
If you really know me, you will know my Father as well means that Jesus and the Father were separate entities.
John 14
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
He that hath seen Jesus hath seen the Father because Jesus had all the attributes of the Father, so Jesus was a mirror image of the Father.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
The Father is in the Son because Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” (John 14:11, John 17:21), meaning that God was visible and manifest in Jesus, and that is why Jesus was a Manifestation of God.
Jesus clearly differentiated Himself from the Father in the verses above and that alone means that Jesus could not be God.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe it is because God does not change whether in or out of the body. He is one. I believe what makes them distinct is the flesh. The Father has no body but the Son does.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is false. Jesus does say He is God in many ways and best in John 10:30.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
The word of truth.
I suppose it's a joint effort between God, that which is true (the word of truth) and how we handle truth as people. 2nd Timothy 2 alludes to this sentiment. To see truth, acknowledge, understand, speak, and live in truth seems to be desired and expected. John 4 suggests this much. It's not an anomaly, a paradox, or anything inconsistent within biblical text. These things come with an interpretation unfit for adequate understanding.
What is true?
What is the spirit of truth?
What is stated to be our enemy?
What's the opposite of deception and error?
Truth matters
I suppose it's a joint effort between God, that which is true (the word of truth) and how we handle truth as people. 2nd Timothy 2 alludes to this sentiment. To see truth, acknowledge, understand, speak, and live in truth seems to be desired and expected. John 4 suggests this much. It's not an anomaly, a paradox, or anything inconsistent within biblical text. These things come with an interpretation unfit for adequate understanding.
What is true?
What is the spirit of truth?
What is stated to be our enemy?
What's the opposite of deception and error?
Truth matters
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus never said that He was God. That is a church doctrine that came about by misinterpreting Bible verses.
“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) does not mean that Jesus is God. It means that whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of the Father. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one. Jesus also shares some (but not all) the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one.
Jesus was a Manifestation of God but Jesus was also a Servant of God, and that is why Jesus said to the Jews:
John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
John 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Jesus was able to do the works of the Father because the Father was in Him. Jesus said He could do nothing by Himself.
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Jesus clearly differentiated Himself from the Father in the verses above and that alone means that Jesus could not be God.
YellowFeather
Member
Jehovah God is the Creator of all things. the earth and life. Jesus the Son is the one who taught the word God created for us to learn. Jesus came down here to also teach the word of God and show us how to follow the word his Father gave to him to teach to us.