Who Do Christians Follow Paul or Jesus(pbuh)???

[ellenjanuary]

Paul's letter to the Romans is a kind of Christian manifesto.

First line of the preliminary essay to John Stott's Romans: God's Good News for the World.

What does that tell you?

 

[Reverend Rick]

From my own studies of the Bible, and particularly the New Testament, I have seen a huge difference in what Paul taught and what Jesus taught. Paul was the one who seemed to introduce pagan-influenced ideas into Christianity. He gave two differing stories of his experience on the road to Damascus. And he admitted to using deceit to gain converts. Paul, to me, seems like a shady character. And, most Protestant churches, mainly the conservative ones, have always focused more on Paul's teachings than on those of Jesus. I've heard more sermons preached from Paul's writings than the Gospels.

I have to agree with you.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I have to agree with you.

I've actually heard some conservative Protestants say that Jesus' teachings don't apply to Christians because what Jesus taught was directed only at the Jews, and since those teachings were before his death and resurrection, they don't apply to Christians, which is why Paul's teachings are the only ones to be followed. However, I don't believe this is believed by all Protestants, but it shows the level of devotion to Paul over Jesus that some of them have.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I've actually heard some conservative Protestants say that Jesus' teachings don't apply to Christians because what Jesus taught was directed only at the Jews, and since those teachings were before his death and resurrection, they don't apply to Christians, which is why Paul's teachings are the only ones to be followed. However, I don't believe this is believed by all Protestants, but it shows the level of devotion to Paul over Jesus that some of them have.

I believe many Christians think Paul and Luke followed Jesus around in real life.

Another issue I have is how things are played down, (almost never mentioned) the fact that Jesus brother James disagreed with Paul on many issues.

Paul was a self proclaimed Apostle and Luke was his scribe. They never met Jesus during his life.

Another issue is Mary Madeline. They take her word on Jesus resurrection but neglect her writings in the Bible.

 

[RaimThunder]

Christians follow Christ. Atleast they are supposed to. Lol. But following Paul is good too. Unless Jesus changed anything taht Paul said, following Paul is just like following Christ. You get it?

John 8:32
thecomforter.info

 

[Muffled]

I've actually heard some conservative Protestants say that Jesus' teachings don't apply to Christians because what Jesus taught was directed only at the Jews, and since those teachings were before his death and resurrection, they don't apply to Christians, which is why Paul's teachings are the only ones to be followed. However, I don't believe this is believed by all Protestants, but it shows the level of devotion to Paul over Jesus that some of them have.

That is a bit disingenuous on their part. The Bible clearly states:

II Tim 3:16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.

This falls into the category of pertinence. Did what Jesus say to Jews pertain only to Jews or is it something that pertains to everyone? I don't believe that pertinence can be determined simply by the audience that is being addressed. Surely I would not have to consider myself as one of:
Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Apostle Paul wrote: "Become imitators of me, even as I am of Christ.". He meant that for early Christians he, Paul, was good example to follow. Despite that, Jesus set the best example to follow. Why so? Because Jesus was perfect, so he gave us a perfect example of how praise and worship Jehovah God. Paul was just a human who tried his best in following Jesus.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

That is a bit disingenuous on their part. The Bible clearly states:

II Tim 3:16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.

This falls into the category of pertinence. Did what Jesus say to Jews pertain only to Jews or is it something that pertains to everyone? I don't believe that pertinence can be determined simply by the audience that is being addressed. Surely I would not have to consider myself as one of:
Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?

Ok, but that verse from Matthew, it specifically tells us that Jesus is talking to the Pharisees. But, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches that anybody who breaks the least part of the law, is condemned to hell, while Paul seems to indicate that the law has been done away with.

 

[Ben Masada]

Christians follow Christ. Atleast they are supposed to. Lol. But following Paul is good too. Unless Jesus changed anything taht Paul said, following Paul is just like following Christ. You get it?

John 8:32
thecomforter.info

I, for one, don't get it. Jesus never had anything to do with Christianity, which was founded by Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. It was in Antioch where Paul spent a whole year preaching about Jesus as Christ and his disciples were called Christians for the very first time. (Acts 11:26) Therefore, it is only obvious that Christians follow Paul and not Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

Ok, but that verse from Matthew, it specifically tells us that Jesus is talking to the Pharisees. But, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches that anybody who breaks the least part of the law, is condemned to hell, while Paul seems to indicate that the law has been done away with.

Since the law is done away, there is no way to break it. However that is only true for Christians. Jesus was speaking to people who were under the law. What he said applies to anyone who is not a Christian. An atheist may think he is a law unto himself but God will judge him just the same.

 

[Muffled]

I, for one, don't get it. Jesus never had anything to do with Christianity, which was founded by Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. It was in Antioch where Paul spent a whole year preaching about Jesus as Christ and his disciples were called Christians for the very first time. (Acts 11:26) Therefore, it is only obvious that Christians follow Paul and not Jesus.

Maybe you should eat more fish.

Paul taught people to follow Jesus. Paul is following Jesus in his writings so in effect following Paul is following Jesus.

That doesn't even come close to historical fact. The church was established by Jesus at Pentecost.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Maybe you should eat more fish.

Paul taught people to follow Jesus. Paul is following Jesus in his writings so in effect following Paul is following Jesus.

That doesn't even come close to historical fact. The church was established by Jesus at Pentecost.

You are trusting your salvation on the words of a Roman Pagan who never met Jesus in real life.

 

[jtartar]

1)Jesus(pbuh) told 3 times in New-testament that God is One

(Mk 12:29)"Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one"

(Eph 4:6) "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."

(Jas 2:19)"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder"

Paul said god is three---He developed the concept of TRINITY Which is nowhere to be found in BIBLE----Trinity was doctrine derived 300 years after jesus(pbuh) death ---if it was a true doctrine Jesus(pbuh) would explicitly spoken of it but its not the case----The only verse close to TRINITY was in Gospel OF Jhon' In 'King James Version' of Bible But this verse is deleted in the 'New Revised Standard Version' of Bible as the scholars of Bible thought it was fabricated into Bible----Apart from that there is not a single verse in complete Bible which even remotely speaks about TRINITY

This is what is written in the opening page of New Revised Standard Version

"King James Version has serious defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of biblical studies and the discovery of many biblical manuscripts more ancient than those on which the King James Version was based made it apparent that these defects were so many as to call for revision."


2)Jesus(pbuh) taught the Law of God

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil"- Matthew 5:17-29

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." -Revelation 14:12.

"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." -1 John 5:2-3

According to Jesus(pbuh) Law of Moses(pbuh) is still valid and if you read the Old-Testament Moses said there are three prophets to follow :

1)Jhon the baptist
2)jesus
3)Is still a mystery


But Paul broke the law of God----and told the law of previous Prophets isn't needed any more---According to him "Jesus fulfilled the law" which is in direct contradiction of what Jesus(pbuh) said:
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".

And according to Jesus(pbuh) there would be one more prophet to follow him

1)Is still a mystery

Quran replies in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel"

Conclusion

So we can clearly see Paul and his theologians are going directly against Jesus(pbuh) teachings---This is how Quran Replies to them

"Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to God and ask his forgiveness, when God is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food. See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are." (Qur'an 5:72)

"People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a 'Trinity'—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust." (Qur'an 4:171)

A Thousand Suns,
I don't have any idea who you have been listening to, but clearly it is not to either Christians or Islems, because you seem to have very little knowledge of either.
Paul never wrote anything that was even a hint of the idea of a Trinity. No true Christian believes in a trinity, because Paul and other Bible writers say about fifty times that Jesus is God's SON, and Jesus' God, John 20:17.
You made the statement that Paul taught the trinity, ,then the first scripture you use to refute the trinity was written by Paul, Eph 4:3-6.
Paul said that God is one at Gal 3:20.
Paul said that God is the God and Father of Jesus, several times as he wrote to the different congregations, Eph 1:3, Col 1:3.
Two times God was sitting on His throne and Jesus came in before Him. That is no possible if the were the same person, Dan 7:13,14, Rev 5:6,7.
You are correct about the KJV, it has many errors, but none of any great threat to the truth of the Gospel, or the message from God to man, most being numbers and names.
The reason there was a small difference between Jesus' teachings and Pauls was because Jesus was born a Jew and was under the Law, Gal 4:4. Because the Law of Moses condemned to death all who are under that law, Jesus came to remove the law so that people had the chance to live forever, Matt 20:28, John 3:16,17, 2Cor 3:6,7, Rom 7:6, Gal 3:10-14.
Islem got it's start from Abraham and sre supposed to believe the Hebrew Scriptures. If you obey the Hebrew Scriptures you would know that the Mosaic Law was an interim, De Bene Esse Law, that would end with the coming and then death of the Messiah, Jere 31:31-34, Col 2:13,14.
Jus as you said Paul and all the Apostles were Jews. This makes many more the the requirement for belief,as stated in the Hebrew Scriptures, Deut 19:15. It is very difficulst to reason with a person who does not even obey his own inspired writings.
So your god is to great for a SON??? Why then does God have written in His Hebrew Scriptures about His SON, The Prince of Peace??? Isa 9:6,7.
At Isa 11:1-11, we are told about God's son coming to earth to stop the terrible conditions we see on earth today, and set up The Messianic Kingdom.
At Isa 7:14, we are told about God's son being born to a virgin. All Israel knew about the coming of the Messiah, why don't you, Luke 3:15???

 

[Ben Masada]

Whom do Christians follow? Paul, of course! The followers of Jesus were called Nazarenes. Paul was the one who founded Christianity in the city of Antioch, where he spent a whole year preaching about Jesus as Christ. That's why and where his followers were for the very first time called Christians. Read Acts 11:26. This happened about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.

 

[Ben Masada]

Maybe you should eat more fish.

Paul taught people to follow Jesus. Paul is following Jesus in his writings so in effect following Paul is following Jesus.

That doesn't even come close to historical fact. The church was established by Jesus at Pentecost.

I am a good fish eater. But how could Paul teach to follow Jesus, by contradicting Jesus' own words? While Jesus said that he had not come to abolish the Law, (Mat. 5:17-19) about 30 years later, Paul came and said that he did abolish the Law on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15) I think Paul meant that Jesus was either lying or did not know what he was talking about. What do you say?

If the church was established by Jesus at Pentecost, why only about 30 years later would the members of this church be called Christians for the first time after Paul spent a whole year preaching about Jesus as Chist? (Acts 11:26) The name is "contradicton," don't you think so?

 

[Ben Masada]

Paul's letter to the Romans is a kind of Christian manifesto.

First line of the preliminary essay to John Stott's Romans: God's Good News for the World.

What does that tell you?

Christian manifest of what, that he constituted an exception to Jesus' rule that one cannot serve two masters? He declared in Romans 7:25 that with his mind he would serve the Law of God and in his flesh he would serve the law of sin. How can one serve two masters?

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Since the law is done away, there is no way to break it. However that is only true for Christians. Jesus was speaking to people who were under the law. What he said applies to anyone who is not a Christian. An atheist may think he is a law unto himself but God will judge him just the same.

Who done away with the law? Jesus or Paul? It was declared by the prophets in the Old Testament (people who were supposedly inspired by god), that the law was eternal, and could never be done away with. It seems to me that Jesus understood this, and propagated it. But Paul, on the other hand, was the one who taught that the law was done away with. To say that what Jesus said is not important for those who believe in him, to me, seems like a blasphemous statement. This is one thing I never understood about Christianity, is how those who claim that Jesus is their savior, and god in the flesh, could blatantly deny what he taught people. Of course, this doesn't apply to all Christians, as a vast majority believe that doing good is necessary to one's personal salvation.

 

[Ilisrum]

This is one thing I never understood about Christianity, is how those who claim that Jesus is their savior, and god in the flesh, could blatantly deny what he taught people.

Hence, why it's the largest religion in the world. Many fundamentalist Christians think that the only thing that matters is whether or not you have faith. With this mindset you can do whatever you want to and you're still God's chosen and automatically forgiven. This is why I could never be a Christian.

It's a shame that a movement founded by a Jewish man who wanted nothing but people to live in harmony and accept each others differences could transform into the world's most intolerant religion.

 

[kylixguru]

Paul said god is three---
He developed the concept of TRINITY Which is nowhere to be found in BIBLE----
Apart from that there is not a single verse in complete Bible which even remotely speaks about TRINITY

I agree it is not explicitly referred to but when you come to understand what the whole heart and core of the law and the prophets point to you do see how there are three advents of Messiah that are required and how the 3rd advent is the Almighty God that is the sum of them all. (See Isaiah 44:6)

But Paul broke the law of God----and told the law of previous Prophets isn't needed any more---According to him "Jesus fulfilled the law" which is in direct contradiction of what Jesus(pbuh) said...

I disagree that Paul meant what you are ascribing to him.

And according to Jesus(pbuh) there would be one more prophet to follow him

God can call prophets anytime He pleases.

Jesus spoke of two future advents of Messiah, one of them being the advent of the Holy Ghost and the other being the advent of the Father. (See Luke 12:37-40)

I agree the advent of Messiah that Jesus fulfilled can be looked upon as minor in comparison to the advent of Messiah when the Father comes to perform His mission. Of course, when Jesus Christ returns He shall be the Father!

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

jbug, just out of curiosity, what particular denomination do you belong to? You're teaching things that I am unfamiliar with within Christianity, and my knowledge of specific denominational theology is pretty vast.