Who do you believe, America?

[Revoltingest]

What's so evil about Russia (apart from this alleged incident)?

If the Russians did it, then "evil" is hardly the word to describe such a service to the country.
Was it evil when Voice Of America broadcast factual info to commies whose own governments
prevented them from hearing facts? I don't oppose anyone exposing corruption.
All hail, Snowden, Assange, & Deep Throat!

 

[Cassandra]

Only a quarter of those polled say they believe US Intelligence officials."

The problem here is that government should uphold the highest standards of integrity. And generally government workers do take their job very seriously, even if there are the unavoidable scandals from time to time.

But there is a saying: "A fish starts to rot head first". When people find out that presidents are rotten liars and politicians do their utmost best to call each other liars, and start to use lies and slander as a tool of trade, then it becomes harder and harder for people to have trust in government.

There has been a deliberate campaign to undermine trust in good and honest leaders in the US to bring the worst kind of people to power. Because people like Trump can only come to power if people believe everyone else is corrupt too. That is the game the evil always play, call the good guys hypocrites, and then say you are the honest one because you do not hide your crimes.

People should realize the Republican party is no longer the Grand Old Party of the past but became a victim of several hostile takeovers. First these TeaParty fanatics who ousted all the moderate sensible and honest politicians, they say this was directed and financed by the Koch brothers. Then by Trump. Another billionaire with total disregard of decency and truth.

The US is now controlled by an elite who is for a great part foreign. They control the US foreign politics and they care more for tax cuts and deregulation to make more profit than the interests of the American people.

People in the US have been deceived by endless propaganda that government is their enemy. This is a poisonous lie.

Government is the common good

In a society that is full of big and small predators, government is there to protect the common interests of the people, especially the little people, the people with little power. You need honest politicians devoted to the nation and common good to make that happen. But US politics has fallen into the hands of lobbyists with deep pockets who keep corrupting things. They do not want to pay taxes, they do not want government regulations that keep them in check, and they want all the juicy government orders. All money that taxes from people bring in, should not be redivided among the people, but go to them.

The elite now has managed to take full control over government. Meet you first emperor: Donald Trump. Meet the new royal family.

How did this happen? By destroying the idea of the common good and one nation and feeding endlessly the animosity between the two parties. Unity makes power, division creates weakness A divided nation with corrupt politicians is easily exploited by the elite. These endless conspiracy theories come from them to undermine trust to a point people vote for crazy candidates.

Bush undermined the common good, but Trump will finish it. The elite only want a police state, not a state taking care of its people. No they only want a state that protects them against the anger of the exploited masses, and that fights their wars against competitors abroad or helps them take over other nations to exploit.

Americans today are not a shadow of the people that created the constitution. These followed in the tracks of the French revolution that ended the centuries of exploitation of the people to the point that people were starving massively in the streets of Paris while an elite of 15.000 was having grand parties in Versailles spending one quarter of the national income. They invented the guillotine to get rid of these parasites. They created the statue of liberty and gave a copy to the Americans as a reminder.

But later generations of Americans forgot ...
Those who can not learn from the past,
are destined to repeat the same mistakes.

 

[buddhist]

It might well be informative of the thoughts of 1 or 2 Twitter users and a large network of bots.

Do you have proof for this allegation?

 

[buddhist]

If the Russians did it, then "evil" is hardly the word to describe such a service to the country.
Was it evil when Voice Of America broadcast factual info to commies whose own governments
prevented them from hearing facts? I don't oppose anyone exposing corruption.
All hail, Snowden, Assange, & Deep Throat!

I agree. I'm still waiting for sunrise123 to tell me what's so evil about Russia otherwise.

 

[Augustus]

Do you have proof for this allegation?

It falls within the kind of action that one can pay any number of legitimate PR agencies to perform on your behalf, never mind individuals or government agencies. There are people who are employed to do precisely this, and things like comment on articles, edit wikipedia, post tweets, start Twitter trends, etc.

Unless you can prove that it is not correct, then you can't make any statement about what the poll shows.

A poll of completely unknown veracity is no more useful than a poll proven to be false.

 

[buddhist]

It falls within the kind of action that one can pay any number of legitimate PR agencies to perform on your behalf, never mind individuals or government agencies. There are people who are employed to do precisely this, and things like comment on articles, edit wikipedia, post tweets, start Twitter trends, etc.

Unless you can prove that it is not correct, then you can't make any statement about what the poll shows.

A poll of completely unknown veracity is no more useful than a poll proven to be false.

So, you have no proof.

I have no personal proof for any poll conducted by anyone besides myself.

 

[habiru]

Government is the common good

In a society that is full of big and small predators, government is there to protect the common interests of the people, especially the little people, the people with little power. You need honest politicians devoted to the nation and common good to make that happen. But US politics has fallen into the hands of lobbyists with deep pockets who keep corrupting things. They do not want to pay taxes, they do not want government regulations that keep them in check, and they want all the juicy government orders. All money that taxes from people bring in, should not be redivided among the people, but go to them.

The elite now has managed to take full control over government. Meet you first emperor: Donald Trump. Meet the new royal family.

.

I guess you are another member of the Kardashians. And so let me enlighten you. Hillary Clinton receives lot and lots of money from all types of organizations and corporations. They donates to her Foundation to get what they wanted. They gives her too much money than the average amount to speak at their conferences. They are stripping gold from the land of Haiti without building up their economy like they had promised that they would do. But still accepting donation to the Haitian's fund that they themselves had created. The Clinton Foundation had received around $140,000,000.00 in donations, but only $9,000,000.00 had went to the actual cause. And we all knows that the rest were donated for special interest, but it was not to help the Haitians, but to help other organizations and corporations and governments. The Saudis cares so much about Black people that they had donated to the foundation, but they doesn't do anything about the Black slaves that are locked up or killed for running away from their Saudi masters.
The Establishment had invested a lot of money into her campaign thinking that they had it all set up for her to win. But things did not had turn up the way they had planned it will be.

Newly released State Department emails help reveal how a major Clinton Foundation donor was placed on a sensitive government intelligence advisory board even though he had no obvious experience in the field, a decision that appeared to baffle the department’s professional staff.

The emails further reveal how, after inquiries from ABC News, the Clinton staff sought to “protect the name” of the Secretary, “stall” the ABC News reporter and ultimately accept the resignation of the donor just two days later.

Copies of dozens of internal emails were provided to ABC News by the conservative political group Citizens United, which obtained them under the Freedom of Information Act after more the two years of litigation with the government.

A prolific fundraiser for Democratic candidates and contributor to the Clinton Foundation, who later traveled with Bill Clinton on a trip to Africa, Rajiv K. Fernando’s only known qualification for a seat on the International Security Advisory Board (ISAB) was his technological know-how. The Chicago securities trader, who specialized in electronic investing, sat alongside an august collection of nuclear scientists, former cabinet secretaries and members of Congress to advise Hillary Clinton on the use of tactical nuclear weapons and on other crucial arms control issues. How Clinton Donor Got on Sensitive Intelligence Board

“But emails show that donors got special access to you. Those seeking grants for Haiti relief were considered separately from non-donors, and some of those donors got contracts, government contracts, taxpayer money,” Wallace said. “Can you really say that you kept your pledge to that Senate committee? And why isn’t what happened and what went on between you and the Clinton Foundation, why isn’t it what Mr. Trump calls pay-to-play?

” Clinton more or less avoided the question. She said that “everything I did as secretary of state was in furtherance of our country’s interests and our values. The State Department has said that.” Then she moved into a defense of the Clinton Foundation’s work. Wallace tried to get her back to the question at hand: “The specific question went to pay for play. Do you want to talk about that?” Clinton, for the most part, did not, saying “there’s no evidence.” Clinton Still Hasn't Faced Questions About Pay-to-Play Head On

Clinton Foundation Received Millions from Saudis, Qatar, Iran

.Hillary Clinton donor received top spot on State Department intel board - CNNPolitics.com

Hillary Clinton has a lot of donors in the Justice Department, with some in high places - Hot Air

Obama chose Hillary Clinton to be Secretary of State. We cannot know what deals were struck to make her stop her destructive campaigning long after it was apparent she had lost. But we do know that Mark Penn, CEO for Burson-Marsteller, one of the world's large PR firms representing Monsanto advised her for years and ran her campaign. And when she showed up again, by Obama's side, suddenly so did a man named Michael Taylor ... also again. Monsanto and Hillary Clinton's Redemptive First Act as Secretary of State

 

[habiru]

Donald J. Trump announced that he was a candidate for the Republican nomination in the 2016 United States presidential election.

By Reuters on Publish DateJune 16, 2015.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/u...for-president-this-time-for-real-he-says.html

 

[habiru]

 

[Augustus]

So, you have no proof.

I have no personal proof for any poll conducted by anyone besides myself.

The point was about reliability of information, not proof of wrongdoing. I have no idea about who voted, that is the point.

When you say 'So, his followers - presumably Democrats - voted that they believe in Wikileaks more than US Intelligence.' you are simply inventing an expedient narrative based on no actual evidence.

Voters didn't have to be followers and they can't be presumed Democrats or even Americans.

What the poll shows is an unknown sample of 84,000 Twitter accounts from unknown locations that may or may not be actual people voted for Wikileaks more than the US Gov.

If you believe that this is 'informative', you have a pretty low threshold for what counts as meaningful information.

 

[habiru]

 

[buddhist]

The point was about reliability of information, not proof of wrongdoing. I have no idea about who voted, that is the point.

When you say 'So, his followers - presumably Democrats - voted that they believe in Wikileaks more than US Intelligence.' you are simply inventing an expedient narrative based on no actual evidence.

Voters didn't have to be followers and they can't be presumed Democrats or even Americans.

What the poll shows is an unknown sample of 84,000 Twitter accounts from unknown locations that may or may not be actual people voted for Wikileaks more than the US Gov.

If you believe that this is 'informative', you have a pretty low threshold for what counts as meaningful information.

I was simply concluding and questioning Quetzal's assertion, that the poll results was informative of - as he put it - "a very select group of twitter users. Mostly his followers"; the reporter is a known Democrat.

 

[David1967]

Agreed ...

Don't know yet ... have they been successfully sued for defamation?

Only thing I've found so far is that they have exposed things some would rather keep from public knowledge.

 

[james bond]

"Which source Americans believe regarding the hacking of the Democratic National Committee – WikiLeaks or US Intelligence?"

I got more libs on my Facebook than cons, and it's hard to believe how much they're brainwashed constantly with political propaganda. For example, today I get...

turned into a meme that says Drump will be tweeting in 10 mins. A couple minutes later, I get something else Donald Trump did wrong. A few seconds later, ball gowns aren't selling well because no one is attending DJT's inauguration. The libs aren't going to attend anyway. I didn't watch Obama's second one except for the entertainment. It's no wonder a few libs go crazy when something disrupts their distortion field.

The best thing to do is try to ignore and go do something even if it's something you do not enjoy.

The answer is Wikileaks, but you couldn't use it in a court of law unless the evidence was elsewhere. US intelligence is Obama trying to cover up something he's doing.

 

[james bond]

Here's the dirt from Israeli intel. The US Intel is a red herring. Obama and Trump have disagreed on how to handle Syria. Obama wants to fix the Syria situation before he leaves office and will continue to hammer how Russia is our enemy and bringing the Cold War back after he leaves.

Why Trump and US intel clash over Russia

Meanwhile, Obama is fighting tooth and tong in Syria (only good for 1/10/16) -- Antiwar.com

EDIT: Here is what Assange says about it -- Assange hits back after US intelligence hack report

 

[tytlyf]

Here's the dirt from Israeli intel. The US Intel is a red herring. Obama and Trump have disagreed on how to handle Syria. Obama wants to fix the Syria situation before he leaves office and will continue to hammer how Russia is our enemy and bringing the Cold War back after he leaves.

Why Trump and US intel clash over Russia

Meanwhile, Obama is fighting tooth and tong in Syria (only good for 1/10/16) -- Antiwar.com

EDIT: Here is what Assange says about it -- Assange hits back after US intelligence hack report

Those aren't credible news sources. The Yahoo one is just pointing out how Assange is telling everyone to look the other way from Russia.

 

[habiru]

I got more libs on my Facebook than cons, and it's hard to believe how much they're brainwashed constantly with political propaganda. For example, today I get...

turned into a meme that says Drump will be tweeting in 10 mins. A couple minutes later, I get something else Donald Trump did wrong. A few seconds later, ball gowns aren't selling well because no one is attending DJT's inauguration. The libs aren't going to attend anyway. I didn't watch Obama's second one except for the entertainment. It's no wonder a few libs go crazy when something disrupts their distortion field.

The best thing to do is try to ignore and go do something even if it's something you do not enjoy.

The answer is Wikileaks, but you couldn't use it in a court of law unless the evidence was elsewhere. US intelligence is Obama trying to cover up something he's doing.

There are more Libs supporting President Trump than Hillary. The media is painting fictitious picture that nobody doesn't wants to be on the side of President Trump.
The Libs knows that President Trump is speaking the truth. Like the Mexicans wall issue. The government over there has threaten that if President Trump tries to deport their people back into Mexico. That they will have the Mexican border officers to asked the American's Immigration officers that is returning the illegals back, to prove that they are Mexican citizens. And if they cannot, then they will refuse them to enter into Mexico. They doesn't care for teir own people. If they doesn't bring home any money, that they cannot re-enter back into the land that they were born.
The Mexican President is corrupt. He can create jobs over there, but he is accepting cash from other corporations to help them from paying too much taxes and and let them abuse their people. Their government only will help those that pays them. And so even their own government treat their own people as worthless pieces of crap. and so the real Libs knows what is really going on. But the MSM's Libs are make believe Libs.


In Mexico, Sweatshops Are Where the Jobs Are

• #4 Carlos Slim Helu & family
• Real Time Net Worth As of 1/10/17
• $49 Billion
• 2016 Billionaires Net Worth
• $50 Billion
• Honorary Chairman, América Móvil

Age
76
Source Of Wealth
telecom, Self Made
Residence
Mexico City, Mexico
Citizenship
Mexico
Marital Status
Widowed
Children
6
Education
Bachelor of Arts / Science, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico Carlos Slim Helu & family

Q: Has the Obama administration started a program to use "taxpayer money" to give free cell phones to welfare recipients?

A: No. Low-income households have been eligible for discounted telephone service for more than a decade. But the program is funded by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it. The Obama Phone? - FactCheck.org

Mexico's Carlos Slim Reclaims World's Richest Man Title From Bill Gates

Can You Buy Anything in Mexico Without Paying Carlos Slim?

Mexico manufacturing surge hides low-wage drag on economy

 

[tytlyf]

There are more Libs supporting President Trump than Hillary. The media is painting fictitious picture that nobody doesn't wants to be on the side of President Trump.
The Libs knows that President Trump is speaking the truth. Like the Mexicans wall issue. The government over there has threaten that if President Trump tries to deport their people back into Mexico. That they will have the Mexican border officers to asked the American's Immigration officers that is returning the illegals back, to prove that they are Mexican citizens. And if they cannot, then they will refuse them to enter into Mexico. They doesn't care for teir own people. If they doesn't bring home any money, that they cannot re-enter back into the land that they were born.
The Mexican President is corrupt. He can create jobs over there, but he is accepting cash from other corporations to help them from paying too much taxes and and let them abuse their people. Their government only will help those that pays them. And so even their own government treat their own people as worthless pieces of crap. and so the real Libs knows what is really going on. But the MSM's Libs are make believe Libs.


In Mexico, Sweatshops Are Where the Jobs Are

• #4 Carlos Slim Helu & family
• Real Time Net Worth As of 1/10/17
• $49 Billion
• 2016 Billionaires Net Worth
• $50 Billion
• Honorary Chairman, América Móvil

Age
76
Source Of Wealth
telecom, Self Made
Residence
Mexico City, Mexico
Citizenship
Mexico
Marital Status
Widowed
Children
6
Education
Bachelor of Arts / Science, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico Carlos Slim Helu & family

Q: Has the Obama administration started a program to use "taxpayer money" to give free cell phones to welfare recipients?

A: No. Low-income households have been eligible for discounted telephone service for more than a decade. But the program is funded by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it. The Obama Phone? - FactCheck.org

Mexico's Carlos Slim Reclaims World's Richest Man Title From Bill Gates

Can You Buy Anything in Mexico Without Paying Carlos Slim?

Mexico manufacturing surge hides low-wage drag on economy

Nope. Those aren't credible sources. You don't vote a certain way based on that stuff do you?

 

[james bond]

Those aren't credible news sources. The Yahoo one is just pointing out how Assange is telling everyone to look the other way from Russia.

Ha ha. Thanks. I'm not going to ask you what's a credible news source.

 

[james bond]

There are more Libs supporting President Trump than Hillary. The media is painting fictitious picture that nobody doesn't wants to be on the side of President Trump.
The Libs knows that President Trump is speaking the truth. Like the Mexicans wall issue. The government over there has threaten that if President Trump tries to deport their people back into Mexico. That they will have the Mexican border officers to asked the American's Immigration officers that is returning the illegals back, to prove that they are Mexican citizens. And if they cannot, then they will refuse them to enter into Mexico. They doesn't care for teir own people. If they doesn't bring home any money, that they cannot re-enter back into the land that they were born.
The Mexican President is corrupt. He can create jobs over there, but he is accepting cash from other corporations to help them from paying too much taxes and and let them abuse their people. Their government only will help those that pays them. And so even their own government treat their own people as worthless pieces of crap. and so the real Libs knows what is really going on. But the MSM's Libs are make believe Libs.


In Mexico, Sweatshops Are Where the Jobs Are

• #4 Carlos Slim Helu & family
• Real Time Net Worth As of 1/10/17
• $49 Billion
• 2016 Billionaires Net Worth
• $50 Billion
• Honorary Chairman, América Móvil

Age
76
Source Of Wealth
telecom, Self Made
Residence
Mexico City, Mexico
Citizenship
Mexico
Marital Status
Widowed
Children
6
Education
Bachelor of Arts / Science, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico Carlos Slim Helu & family

Q: Has the Obama administration started a program to use "taxpayer money" to give free cell phones to welfare recipients?

A: No. Low-income households have been eligible for discounted telephone service for more than a decade. But the program is funded by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it. The Obama Phone? - FactCheck.org

Mexico's Carlos Slim Reclaims World's Richest Man Title From Bill Gates

Can You Buy Anything in Mexico Without Paying Carlos Slim?

Mexico manufacturing surge hides low-wage drag on economy

I believe you, but those lib voices aren't heard. They're only acknowledged during election time.

Since I know first-hand about illegal immigration in the US, the problem I see is identification and verification. Here is an example. When I was on duty, I stopped who I suspected was an illegal immigrant and criminal albeit it was for trespassing. He provided his driver's license as identification which I suspected was fake. However, it was good enough to pass the eyeball test. He was taken to the station and then later released. Being a Juan Garcia and his birth date wasn't enough to verify because there were too many in the database. If the guy was in the US illegally, then a fingerprint check would be able to confirm his identity but he had to have been arrested prior. A facial recognition would be able to track where he goes. This system would take time to set up and have to get past civil liberties complaints. If he is an illegal who has valid work and support, i.e. not a vagrant or criminal, then an identity could be made from that point on. He could be issued a work permit.

I am opposed to the wall because it's stupid. I do not want America who is supposed to be a world leader go back to the Middle Ages. It will take much work, but fingerprinting and taking facial recognition photos of everyone in the US would replace and modernize the concept. We aren't like Israel in the ME where a physical wall isn't necessary in case of attack.

As for sweatshops, that is why companies like Ford want to move their manufacturing there. The sweatshops exist because they can offer work and limited training for unskilled workers. It a cycle that becomes grueling for them because they cannot escape the cycle of poverty. The liberal universities and think tanks in the US have eliminated vocational studies requirements in high school because of the lack of manufacturing in the US. That is capital based trade. They want to force the US to go service based and force unskilled labor to do menial work that is required for farming, cleaning and maintenance here. Thus, high school has dropped them from their curriculum. Trump could stop this and bring back manufacturing to the US. This is one of the reasons why Clinton lost. She is a lying, cheating scumbag who should be in jail along with some of her supporters.