Who do you believe Jesus was/is?

[open_mind]

my opinion is Jesus was a prophet or messenger of God, but not equal to God.
-because provided with the fact that God is ultimately fair,if jesus was God then why shall God reveal himself to a certain minor group of humans out of billions of other people who did not see him and attend his lifetime?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

my opinion is Jesus was a prophet or messenger of God, but not equal to God.
-because provided with the fact that God is ultimately fair,if jesus was God then why shall God reveal himself to a certain minor group of humans out of billions of other people who did not see him and attend his lifetime?

Yeah, but millions of people don't know God, either. The amount of people who believe or do not believe something does not necesarily prove or disprove it.

FerventGodSeeker

 

[open_mind]

Yeah, but millions of people don't know God, either. The amount of people who believe or do not believe something does not necesarily prove or disprove it.

FerventGodSeeker

OK,but i am talking about the special blessing of having God living with u(as u claim).
i mean what special about this group that could make God come down for them.
If u studied the history of prophets you will find out that they came in a period where life of their society was in a miserable condition,so God sent prophets to save humans and replace his good with man's evil from time to time,thats why i believe Jesus was a prophet.

 

[Super Universe]

The God-knowing man describes his spiritual experiences, not to convince unbelievers, but for the edification and mutual satisfaction of believers. - Urantia

GOD and GOD believers, not Jesus believers. Is that not of your ways? or is it to convince non-believers of Jesus of him?

(Hope I am not coming across as rude, I mean not to be)

The box you have built for me is much too small.

The Urantia Book is large and stocked with a wealth of information but it does not equal the width and depth of the universe. The Urantia Book says many things, some I have yet to understand, but nothing (no person, no being, and certainly no book) controls me or directs me this way or that against my own free will.

What can I say to any unbeliever that will change their mind? There are specific techniques to make one more available to receive revelation but what can I say to someone who chooses to be deaf? What can I show a blind man?

One of the four large sections of the Urantia Book is entitled The Life and Teachings of Jesus. It is incorrect to interpret the Urantia faithful as followers of God and not Jesus.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

That's interesting rob. Do you know if the case is the same for the Buddha, or are there records of him outside the Buddhist community?

I am not Rob, tho Rob and I are both martial artists and are both AA so I guess I will answer this, as a substitute Robtex.

Short answer is Yes, it is much the same case for Siddhartha Gautama as it is for Jesus. There are fantastical tales regarding his birth, etc. . . . and there is genuine dispute amongst scholars as to the details of his life, including even, the time frame of when he was to have lived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha

However, interesting to note, Siddhartha did not claim to be a God. Therefore I don't think that one needs to "beleive" in Buddha in the same way as one needs to "beleive" in Jesus to be a member of the respective faith. Additionally, while Siddhartha is thought to be the first Buddha, there are other Buddha's as Buddha simply means "enlightened one."

Hope this helps, and hopefully Rob won't mind me answering in his stead.

B.

 

[Fluffy]

I believe that Jesus is a manifestation of an incomprehendable being. He may have existed but that is not fundamental to my faith.

 

[Comet]

After the death of the material form they can choose to return to God or continue their individual exploration of the universe or participate in universal service. Jesus has a job to do.

My point is this: we return to GOD, not Jesus. Why is it that it matters if one should choose to believe in God and not Jesus then?

My last posting was to say this: Why bother to change the mind of a non-believer? Should you just not be happy with your fellow believers?

After all you said we have freewill and it is Jesus who has the job to do.....

 

[Abram]

[SIZE=+0]The more I think I understand the relationship between Jesus and God the more I realize I'm clueless. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]When I read the the NT I feel the point is clear that Jesus is God. God is the only one that could live a perfect life and most importantly forgive sins. I can forgive you if you step on my toe, but I can't forgive you if you step on someone else toe. He forgives our trespasses on others. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]When I read the OT I find Jesus all over the place. To me the OT was a ramping up for the appearance of God on earth. What better way to prove it then building a nation under your care and having that nation predicting your arrival. He came, forgave, set a standard to live by, and told us to hold him above everything. Jesus is the only way to God because he is God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]This is what I make of the situation and only my point of view. But we must acknowledge either he was God or he wasn't? [/SIZE]

 

[Mathematician]

I voted "Jesus never existed".

 

[Super Universe]

My point is this: we return to GOD, not Jesus. Why is it that it matters if one should choose to believe in God and not Jesus then?

My last posting was to say this: Why bother to change the mind of a non-believer? Should you just not be happy with your fellow believers?

After all you said we have freewill and it is Jesus who has the job to do.....

We do, at some point in our universal career, return to God.

Why does it matter if one believes in God and not Jesus? By what means do we know God? The universe is proof of Him still even that is not enough for some. Jesus preached forgiveness of sin from God and for us to forgive others as well. This is something I regard as evolutionary thought, even today.

What makes a believer? Some event in their life that changes them? Or is it some innate desire or need to be connected with something larger? There are specific steps that one can take that will open their mind and make it more receptive to revelation. You can have visions.

But if a man believes he is a horse and you argue with him for days and days and afterward he still acts like a horse, well then you must give up and let him be in his pasture. It is his choice.


What more do you wish Jesus to do for you? Hasn't He done enough?

 

[Super Universe]

[SIZE=+0]The more I think I understand the relationship between Jesus and God the more I realize I'm clueless. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]When I read the the NT I feel the point is clear that Jesus is God. God is the only one that could live a perfect life and most importantly forgive sins. I can forgive you if you step on my toe, but I can't forgive you if you step on someone else toe. He forgives our trespasses on others. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]When I read the OT I find Jesus all over the place. To me the OT was a ramping up for the appearance of God on earth. What better way to prove it then building a nation under your care and having that nation predicting your arrival. He came, forgave, set a standard to live by, and told us to hold him above everything. Jesus is the only way to God because he is God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]This is what I make of the situation and only my point of view. But we must acknowledge either he was God or he wasn't? [/SIZE]

How is it clear that Jesus is God? Jesus speaks well of His Father and never once says that He is the creator of the universe.

Go back and look at your book again, how many times does Jesus mention His Father?

Do you think Jesus was lying? Why can't you accept Him as He is? Is the Son of God not enough for you?

People want Jesus to be God because we (humans) think we are so special in the universe and we feel slighted now that we know the earth is not the center of it and that our human form had to evolve from more primitive forms.

 

[michel]

I believe that Jesus is a manifestation of an incomprehendable being. He may have existed but that is not fundamental to my faith.

I most certainly believe he existed, and, to me, he is the link to God. Without the life of Christ, I think I would find it hard to believe there was a God. I guess he is fundamental to my faith.

 

[jewscout]

he's a zombie...
come on...he died and came back to life, "rose from the grave"...

what part of that doesn't scream ZOMBIE!




seriously tho...
i think he was just one of a number of good Jewish boys who ticked off the wrong people in charge (Rome) and was executed for it.

 

[Super Universe]

Remember the story of the man who would not leave his home as the floodwaters rose. He shouted "God will provide! God will provide!" and turned away the police, then a boat, then a helicopter.

The man drowned and in heaven he asks St. Peter "What happened? I thought God would provide?"

St. Peter replies "God provided you a policeman, a boat, and a helicopter but you would not listen."

Some people are stubborn, they choose the golden calf over Moses preachings of God. Then when God sends His Son, even that is not enough.

 

[Comet]

What more do you wish Jesus to do for you? Hasn't He done enough?

What has Jesus done for me, or for those who came before him, or for those who know not of him? Nothing at all. Should my knowing of GOD or another's by means other than that through Jesus be any less valid? Does GOD not provide as I agree with you that GOD does? Yes, but to say he provides only through Jesus is absurd!

 

[Super Universe]

Do you think being a CEO of a giant corporation is an easy task? How about the President or Prime Minister of a nation?

Now imagine how difficult it is to lead the universe toward the goal set by your Father who just happens to be God. Jesus provided us with parables to teach us. He spoke well of His Father so that we would open ourselves to Him.

But if His words do not appeal to you then do not waste your time with them and go on with your search wherever it takes you.

I do not claim that God provides only through Jesus. The universe is extremely complex. God not only needs His Son to help run it but an army of angels as well.

 

[Mr. Hair]

Jesus may have existed, but the details of his life have been distorted/overblown by Christianity

I chose this as the closest to my POV. I think it probable that Jesus, or at least a person(s) I would recognise as Jesus existed. I tend to view Jesus as a teacher and philosopher who sought to express his recognition and admiration for the beauty and motion he saw around him and within him, and due to the time and place he lived in he understood and conceptualised this motion as God. However, his recorded words and opinions are just that, and there is no particular reason for me to either categorically accept or deny them, or consider him in any way unusually 'different' or 'special'.

I certainly feel that our contemporary understanding of Jesus has been hugely influenced, altered and perhaps distorted as time passed and circumstance dictated.

 

[mormonman]

Who do you believe Jesus was/is?

a. Jesus never existed.
b. He may have existed, but the details of his life have been distorted/overblown by Christianity.
c. He was a prophet or messenger of God, but was not equal to God.
d. Jesus is God. (i.e. the Trinity)

I don't know if any other members of the LDS have posted this but here is a proclimation called "The Living Christ". Here it is:

"THE LIVING CHRIST
THE TESTIMONY OF THE APOSTLES
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago, we offer our testimony of the reality of His matchless life and the infinite virtue of His great atoning sacrifice. None other has had so profound an influence upon all who have lived and will yet live upon the earth.
He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He "went about doing good" (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.
He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary's cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.
We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.
He rose from the grave to "become the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His "other sheep" (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised "dispensation of the fulness of times" (Ephesians 1:10).
Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: "His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
"I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father" (D&C 110:3–4).
Of Him the Prophet also declared: "And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
"For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
"That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God" (D&C 76:22–24).
We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—"built upon the foundation of . . . apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Ephesians 2:20).
We testify that He will someday return to earth. "And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together" (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts. We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son."

Hope that helps.

 

[Abram]

How is it clear that Jesus is God? Jesus speaks well of His Father and never once says that He is the creator of the universe.

Go back and look at your book again, how many times does Jesus mention His Father?

Do you think Jesus was lying? Why can't you accept Him as He is? Is the Son of God not enough for you?

People want Jesus to be God because we (humans) think we are so special in the universe and we feel slighted now that we know the earth is not the center of it and that our human form had to evolve from more primitive forms.

Go back and look at my book again? Super you have better tact then that.
I read the Bible almost every day. If you want me to start quoting scripture I will. But you've been on this site long enough to have read it all 100 times over.

Jesus was very clear that he and the father are one, right? Our minds may not be able to wrap around this idea, but if they are one then they are the same. Jesus was very clear he is the only way, right? He is the only way because he is God.

People want Jesus to be God because its the only hope for purpose,(at least for me). If Jesus is anything but God, are sins are still here and we all are heading to hell or just a box in the ground.

This is how it has been unfolded to me, I'm not trying to force my God on anyone. Jesus is who I worship and love just as if he is God. I'm his disciple and would deny my own life, family and friends for him.

Super I know where your coming from and understand your view, I held it for a long time myself. There is nothing either of us could say to change the view of the other. Either I'm worshiping the wrong person or your not worshiping the right one. But who am I to say who's wrong or right. I hope that when we pass from here I find everyone in heaven, everyone on this forum could get together and have a good laugh about what we have debated on.

 

[Maxist]

I cannot answer this. I beleive that you worded that a bit the wrong way. There is physical evidence a a Jesus Christ, of coarse He existed, everyone beleives that. I do not, however, I do not by any means consider him to be sentient. My personal beleif is that Jesus would call himself the son of God, with good reason. The indisputable fact is that Christ was pacifistic, so why would He want His teachings to be enforced? If He said that He was the son of God, people would simply follow Him, unquestioning. At any rate, really your question should have been somthing more along the lines of, 'do you beleive that Jesus Christ was holy'?