anonymous9887
bible reader
you are a jew right? so you guys are still being trampled on and waiting for your messiah to deliver you right?
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Who do you think babylon the great is?
- Thread starter anonymous9887
- Start date
Naw. We just sit around listening to ignorant antisemites denigrating Jews while they bastardize our scripture ...
... then we eat.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Some may find this interesting:
Many Biblical scholars believe that "Babylon" is a metaphor for the pagan Roman Empire at the time it persecuted Christians, before the Edict of Milan in 313: perhaps specifically referencing some aspect of Rome's rule (brutality, greed, paganism). Some exegetes interpret the passage as a scathing critique of a servant people of Rome who do the Empire's bidding, interpreting that the author of Revelation was speaking of the Herodians – a party of Jews friendly to Rome and open to her influence, like the Hellenizers of centuries past – and later, corrupt Hasmoneans, where the ruler of Jerusalem or Roman Judea exercised his power at the pleasure of the Emperor, and was dependent on Roman influence, like Herod the Great in the Gospel of Luke.
In 4 Ezra, 2 Baruch, and the Sibylline Oracles, "Babylon" is a cryptic name for Rome. Reinhard Feldmeier speculates that "Babylon" is used to refer to Rome in 1 Peter 5:13. In Revelation 17:9 it is said that she sits on "seven mountains", typically understood as the seven hills of Rome. A Roman coin minted under the Emperor Vespasian (ca. 70 AD) depicts Rome as a woman sitting on seven hills.
According to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, "The characteristics ascribed to this Babylon apply to Rome rather than to any other city of that age: (a) as ruling over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18); (b) as sitting on seven mountains (Revelation 17:9); (c) as the center of the world's merchandise (Revelation 18:3, 11–13); (d) as the corrupter of the nations (Revelation 17:2; 18:3; 19:2); (e) as the persecutor of the saints (Revelation 17:6)." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon
Many Biblical scholars believe that "Babylon" is a metaphor for the pagan Roman Empire at the time it persecuted Christians, before the Edict of Milan in 313: perhaps specifically referencing some aspect of Rome's rule (brutality, greed, paganism). Some exegetes interpret the passage as a scathing critique of a servant people of Rome who do the Empire's bidding, interpreting that the author of Revelation was speaking of the Herodians – a party of Jews friendly to Rome and open to her influence, like the Hellenizers of centuries past – and later, corrupt Hasmoneans, where the ruler of Jerusalem or Roman Judea exercised his power at the pleasure of the Emperor, and was dependent on Roman influence, like Herod the Great in the Gospel of Luke.
In 4 Ezra, 2 Baruch, and the Sibylline Oracles, "Babylon" is a cryptic name for Rome. Reinhard Feldmeier speculates that "Babylon" is used to refer to Rome in 1 Peter 5:13. In Revelation 17:9 it is said that she sits on "seven mountains", typically understood as the seven hills of Rome. A Roman coin minted under the Emperor Vespasian (ca. 70 AD) depicts Rome as a woman sitting on seven hills.
According to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, "The characteristics ascribed to this Babylon apply to Rome rather than to any other city of that age: (a) as ruling over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18); (b) as sitting on seven mountains (Revelation 17:9); (c) as the center of the world's merchandise (Revelation 18:3, 11–13); (d) as the corrupter of the nations (Revelation 17:2; 18:3; 19:2); (e) as the persecutor of the saints (Revelation 17:6)." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon
Ron Hackel
Member
Wine in the Bible is symbolic for God's character. The verse is referring to the end of the world. For 6000 years Babylon the Great (false religion, which is all organized religion) has given a false picture of God's character. The verse says Babylon gives the maddening wine of her adulteries. If you go through Scripture you'll see that Christ was the groom and his people were to be his bride. When they went after a false picture of God they were called an adulterous woman (whore, harlot). The Jews never worshiped the true picture of God. Isaiah 5 said they were a vineyard that didn't produce good grapes. Psalm 80 said they were a grapevine taken from Egypt and burned in the fire. Jesus said in John 15:1 that he was the true vine because he would show the true character of God. Just read the parable of the tenant which Jesus told about the vineyard. Paul said in Romans that the disciples were the firstfruits of the Spirit. They were the first to produce good fruit which rendered good wine. As you see in Acts that they practiced the law of love, sharing everything.
anonymous9887
bible reader
I love your answer. Nice!
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Since the prophets, Jesus, and the Twelve were all Jews, ...
You might consider backing off on the stereotyping.
Ron Hackel
Member
I didn't stereotype the Jews, only presenting the facts. Is there a prophet that the Jews ever believed? God compared them to a whore (Gomez) and a she camel in heat running after false lovers (gods). Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies and you've been waiting over 2500 years without a prophet. Is the light never going to come on? It is not your fault though. With freewill you are no competition for Satan to completely distort the truth in your minds. Don't feel alone though, the Christians and Muslims haven't fared any better. They're running after the same picture of a god presented at Mount Sinai like the Jews did.
Simply applying the text to the context of its day. I see no reason to apply it to anything modern.
What constitutes a 'false religion'? Based on what parameters? What sexuality immorality and how is that defined because in the Bible, it's rather ambiguous. IMO, the story is allegorical to relate what could happen if humans don't watch their step. And nothing more than that.
You might consider it 'rubbish' but that is simply your opinion.
With this kind of an attitude, is it any wonder you see people 'denigrating' you all the time. If one can dish it out....
Stereotype? Perhaps not. Insult? Yes, in a rather large way. You took verses out of context from the Tanakh and then try to fit them into your agenda, and furthermore, state they have never had a messiah, which is true, but then based on Judaic law, neither have you, but you state they only produce 'sour grapes'. Pretty insulting, that. I find kindness to others goes a long way. And metis was right to pull you up by the boot straps.
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Nothing modern.
It is in reference to the ancient Babylonian Empire. Under the Persian King Nebuchadnezzar II, much of Jerusalem was destroyed, including the Jewish temples. It is believed that incident was what destroyed the Autographs...the original writings of OT characters like Moses. All of this happened long before the Romans were in the picture.
Of course, debating about it here is fruitless. PhD's that live and breathe that stuff can't even agree on the subject matter.
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Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Uhm, no he didn't.
Maybe you should get to know who you are talking to. You should know what you are listening to also.
Who wrote the words YOU lean on?
I think Babylon the Great is a what and not a who and it is not a human organization or organizations. I believe some of the very best people were a part of the World's religious organizations and I am sure of the trueness of the words, nothing clean comes out of something unclean. I think Babylon the Great is a prevalent human attitude. If it can be identified and disengaged that would be freedom. You will know the truth and the truth will set you free. I shall propose that the Messiah is The Truth. Is the truth something that can be seen? I am afraid not.
I am so sorry for all you who await something that can be seen.
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
If by Satan you mean ha-satan, the ancient Hebrew term for "the adversary," then I am afraid you have it wrong. There is no invisible, evil, arch enemy of God running around causing people to sin. Don't know about you, but the God I believe in is all powerful as well as the creator, and if this "Satan" truly were doing all this wicked stuff, God could simply snap His divine fingers and uncreate him. I don't need a scapegoat to pin blame on for when crap goes the wrong way in life.
Nada
#
According to the holy scriptures Babylon the Great is the entire Empire of false religion.This would be anything that is not the word of God,preached by Jesus Christ.The reason it is called Babylon the Great is because in ancient times the city of Babylon was the greatest city ever.This is where all the Chaldean arts were taught."Chaldeans” also referred to an educated class of people who studied science, history, languages, and astronomy but who practiced magic and astrology as well." This was the center for pagan beliefs and practices.So,the greater Babylon would be all of the false religions of the world.It is a title used to describe this,not a literal place.Babylon, the city,fell to Cyrus King of Persia in 539 B.C.E.It lost it's position as dominate world power.Even all the Jews were freed.It remained in existence until the days of the Apostles, but was nothing,and became ruins.
It describes Babylon the Great in the book of Revelation.There is much symbolic language that many do not understand.They take it literally.When it mentions "beast" it is describing human governments.When it mentions many waters it can be describing many peoples.When it speaks of her sexual immorality,it is describing how the governments of the world are in bed with false religion.In the same way, the holy scriptures mentions those who follow Jesus Christ are in a symbolic marriage with the lamb.Jesus Christ is referred to as the bridegroom,his faithful followers are referred to as his bride.Satans kingdom does the same except with false religion.
Rev 17:3-5. ".3.And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and she was adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, and she had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality. 5 On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.”
So here we get a description of the entire empire of false religion as a whole.Anything other than what is in God's word, is considered part of this empire,according to the holy scriptures.The human governments described as beast can be confirmed in the book of Daniel 7:17.
Daniel 7:17 “‘These huge beasts, four in number, are four kings who will stand up from the earth."
Revelation 17:5 Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000531?q=Babylon+the+Great&p=par#h=3