Who does God want the Antichrist to be?

[Jehu Books]

Hey everyone, interesting thread with a lot of interesting responses and differences in the understanding of God and scriptures. Some I got some help from, thanks. I almost don't want to add any extra views but I love the topic mainly because most of the mainstream views that I'm familiar with don't add any assistance to my walk with or in truth, at least not in my or our "present". I have found some comfort in John's letter in which he refers often to an anti-Christ spirit. It seems he divides the anti-Christ spirit as the spirit which does not believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. He even implies testing yourself to see if you have an anti-Christ spirit. Given the rest of the book and its subject matter it seems to divide believing Christ is in you from believing he is outside of you, (in other words outside your own flesh). It seems the true anti-Christ spirit is the one who says that you and Christ are not one, which is the very thing Jesus prayed for "Father make them one with me as I am one with you" An anti-Christ is the spirit that declares you are still a pauper, and must still beg for bread.

 

[Spiderman]

Personally I would not say that God HELPS Satan do anything, but rather, I would say, that God is All-Knowing (able to see in the future) and in the day He created The Plan of Salvation He already knew how Satan would try to overturn it, and because of this, there were already provisions in the Plan to undermine Satan's attempts to overturn it. God has His Plan and He works that Plan, Satan on the other hand, tries to "out-smart" God but in the final analysis Satan is not successful in doing so. God's plan counters Satan's objectives all along the way and does not allow Satan to overstep certain boundaries.

It is all about the stradegy of the Battle. It may appear that Satan is winning individual wars---but he will not win the over-all battle. God's objective is to win the Battle. So no, God is not HELPING Satan do anything.

God helps Satan by refusing to strip him of power and refusing to enlighten the world or speak clearly to people.

By leaving people confused and giving Satan permission to deceive people, God does help Satan.

I'm convinced that the Antichrist will be a person obsessed with creating unity and harmony. In order to create unity and Harmony among the many different religions, he will have to create his own religion that unites them all.

I think he will do what he believes is best for the world. Sometimes people are oppossed to the Bible because the Bible divides a lot of people and creates a lot of bigotry and has many asinine scriptures like stoning someone to death for working on the wrong day of the week.

I'm opposed to much of the Bible because I find it irrational and it goes against my conscience as wrong and makes me sick.

I think the Antichrist will be a good compassionate person who despizes much of Scripture and religion because it goes against his conscience.

I think he will mean well and fall, but His destiny is God's will and God is asking for it.

 

[David T]

God wants the anti Christ to be the one who lists in religious forums "who does God want the anti Christ to be".

 

[Spiderman]

God wants the anti Christ to be the one who lists in religious forums "who does God want the anti Christ to be".

 

[Janet Waters]

Hey everyone, interesting thread with a lot of interesting responses and differences in the understanding of God and scriptures. Some I got some help from, thanks. I almost don't want to add any extra views but I love the topic mainly because most of the mainstream views that I'm familiar with don't add any assistance to my walk with or in truth, at least not in my or our "present". I have found some comfort in John's letter in which he refers often to an anti-Christ spirit. It seems he divides the anti-Christ spirit as the spirit which does not believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. He even implies testing yourself to see if you have an anti-Christ spirit. Given the rest of the book and its subject matter it seems to divide believing Christ is in you from believing he is outside of you, (in other words outside your own flesh). It seems the true anti-Christ spirit is the one who says that you and Christ are not one, which is the very thing Jesus prayed for "Father make them one with me as I am one with you" An anti-Christ is the spirit that declares you are still a pauper, and must still beg for bread.

I agree with your assessment about the spirit of anti-Christ. It is a spirit (or an attitude) that one has against Jesus Christ, His teachings, His Words (as found in the scriptures), His authorized servants, and against anything that is virtuous, honest, good, and true. Rather it is the spirit of doubt, contention, un-forgiveness, and hate that one holds in their heart against another and/or against the truth in general. Such a "bad spirit" (or attitude) we should cast away from ourselves---because the source of those feelings are inspired by the Anti-Christ himself (whose intent is to tear down and destroy all that is good).

 

[David T]

O

Omg now that's hilarious!!! One major problem

 

[Sleeppy]

We have Agency---the freedom of choice, but we do not have the freedom to choose the consequences of those choices. People are allowed to make bad choices, however that should not imply that God is implicit in those bad choices. God knows what we are going to do before we do it. But if our bad choices stand in the way of God's purposes (that must be fulfilled)----God can turn that negative situation and turn it into a positive, which He then can use to accomplish His will (instead of our will).

Hosea 4:6
Cut off have been My people for lack of knowledge, Because thou knowledge hast rejected, I reject thee


You act according to your faculty. God knows, because He gave you your entire inheritance, (as opposed to an earthly father who gives half of his DNA, or a portion of the inheritance).

This is hard to accept. But, God is in control. It is blasphemous, and autolatrous to attribute ignorance to God, and attribute creative power to His creation (will must originate from a source, but creation is not a source).


No one comes to the Father, unless the Father first draws him. No one honors their Father and Mother, unless they first impart their honor.

 

[Jehu Books]

I agree with your assessment about the spirit of anti-Christ. It is a spirit (or an attitude) that one has against Jesus Christ, His teachings, His Words (as found in the scriptures), His authorized servants, and against anything that is virtuous, honest, good, and true. Rather it is the spirit of doubt, contention, un-forgiveness, and hate that one holds in their heart against another and/or against the truth in general. Such a "bad spirit" (or attitude) we should cast away from ourselves---because the source of those feelings are inspired by the Anti-Christ himself (whose intent is to tear down and destroy all that is good).

Thanks Janet, your post seem to be honest and pure with understanding. I probably enjoyed them the most.

 

[David T]

Ha

O

Omg now that's hilarious!!! One major problem

PERFECT HA!!! I actually thought of a science fiction story with a person who is the anti Christ but really doesn't want to be!!! Actually a decent woman but she eventually pancakes the entire emviromemt in an OCD fashion!!!

 

[Janet Waters]

Hosea 4:6
Cut off have been My people for lack of knowledge, Because thou knowledge hast rejected, I reject thee


You act according to your faculty. God knows, because He gave you your entire inheritance, (as opposed to an earthly father who gives half of his DNA, or a portion of the inheritance).

This is hard to accept. But, God is in control. It is blasphemous, and autolatrous to attribute ignorance to God, and attribute creative power to His creation (will must originate from a source, but creation is not a source).


No one comes to the Father, unless the Father first draws him. No one honors their Father and Mother, unless they first impart their honor.

I'm not really sure what your point has to do with my comment. However, it seems that your response is rooted in Calvinism---which is a manmade theory (not a Biblical doctrine) that was taught by John Calvin (1509-1564) concerning his limited understanding about God. Calvinism was a byproduct of other Dark Age misunderstandings about God, religion, and science.

God desires to draw all men to Him, however, He will not force a person to choose, love, or accept Him. And certainly He will not force any man into heaven. Agency (the right to choose) between good and evil is a necessary prerequisite that God requires of US.

***The Definition of Calvinism: the theological system of Calvin and his followers marked by strong emphasis on the sovereignty of God, the depravity of humankind, and the false doctrine of PREDESTINATION. Calvin taught manmade THEORIES (not Biblical Doctrines) and he was not a authorized prophet or apostle, nor did he hold the Priesthood of God (no authority) to define the doctrines of Jesus Christ.

 

[Janet Waters]

Thanks Janet, your post seem to be honest and pure with understanding. I probably enjoyed them the most.

Thank you! I hope you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!

 

[Sleeppy]

I'm not really sure what your point has to do with my comment. However, it seems that your response is rooted in Calvinism---which is a manmade theory (not a Biblical doctrine) that was taught by John Calvin (1509-1564) concerning his limited understanding about God. Calvinism was a byproduct of other Dark Age misunderstandings about God, religion, and science.

God wants to draw all men to Him, however, He will not force a person to choose, love, or accept Him. And certainly He will not force any man into heaven. Agency (the right to choose) between good and evil is a necessary prerequisite that God requires of US.

***The Definition of Calvinism: the theological system of Calvin and his followers marked by strong emphasis on the sovereignty of God, the depravity of humankind, and the false doctrine of PREDESTINATION. Calvin taught manmade THEORIES (not Biblical Doctrines) and he was not a authorized prophet or apostle, nor did he hold the Priesthood of God (no authority) to define the doctrines of Jesus Christ.

I'm not quoting Calvin. I gave you what was evident, according to God. You act according to your faculty. Jesus told you the same, and his last words were "Forgive them, for they know not what they do," speaking toward, and from the knowledge given him by the Father. And before this it was also said, "there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen."

So then, who are the Chosen? And why are they not able to be led astray? These are the same in the Father's hands, whom Jeremiah had seen marred in the hands of men. But according to the Son, what is in the Father's hands is not removed, nor is it marred, even in the cases of Jesus' betrayal by Judas, his crucifixion by his brothers, nor even in the disbelief afforded Thomas.

 

[Janet Waters]

I'm not quoting Calvin. I gave you what was evident, according to God. You act according to your faculty. Jesus told you the same, and his last words were "Forgive them, for they know not what they do," speaking toward, and from the knowledge given him by the Father. And before this it was also said, "there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen."

Once again.....you are not being clear as to what it is was....that I said.....that necessitated your comments.

So then, who are the Chosen? And why are they not able to be led astray? These are the same in the Father's hands, whom Jeremiah had seen marred in the hands of men. But according to the Son, what is in the Father's hands is not removed, nor is it marred, even in the cases of Jesus' betrayal by Judas, his crucifixion by his brothers, nor even in the disbelief afforded Thomas.

Here you are combining the [incorrect Calvinistic Predestination theory] with the true---correct doctrine of "Election by Grace." And then you are confusing the correct "Election by Grace" with the doctrine of having one's "Calling and Election Sure." If you are going to speak about true Doctrines.....don't confuse them with incorrect theories. And then don't mix up different Doctrines either.

Calvinism is a THEORY that should not be confused with actual Biblical Doctrines (which you misunderstand).

Anciently the "Elect" were CHOSEN by God because:
1). CHOSEN: They were the natural descendants of Abraham through his Covenent Birthright Sons (Abraham>Isaac>Jacob>Judah & Joseph) being Born of the Abrahamic Covenant.
2). ELECT: Besides being of the right pedigree and having the opportunity to receive the Covenant---the Elect are those who have KEPT their Covenant with God. (In other words, they were OBEDIENT to the covenant that they received).

Presently the Elect are CHOSEN by God because:
1). CHOSEN: After they are taught by Authorized Messengers of God's Covenant---they choise to be baptized (the covenant of adoption) to become the children of Jesus Christ.
2). ELECT: After receiving the Covenant of Adoption---the Elect are those who have KEPT their Covenant that God made with them. (In other words, they are OBEDIENT to the covenant that they received).

In order to make a Covenant with God--
1). ELECTION BY GRACE: It starts out with receiving the opportunity that is given by God---to HEAR HIS MESSAGE. The person is chosen because he lives in a time and place in which the true Gospel message is available and that person has the FREEDOM (agency) to CHOOSE it or reject it. One has been chosen (Election by Grace) to hear the gospel message.
2). ELECT: The Elect accept the message, make the Covenant with God, and KEEP that Covenant.

The correct understanding of Election by Grace---only God decides when and where His pure Gospel is presented. Those who hear that message are required to act with both faith and works (faith + works) to accept the opportunity and contnue to be faithful to the Covenant entered into.

Calvinism is a falsehood----Certain People are not PREDESTINED to go to heaven. Certain People are not PREDESTINED to go to hell either. Faith and Works are required of all people who end up in heaven. The better word to be used is that those people were FOREORDAINED to hear the message (because they lived in a day and place the gospel was available to them). But it is not enough to live in that place or time that it is available.....because one has to CHOOSE to accept it and live it to gain a seat in heaven.

People are not PREDESTINED (to be chosen or elected to go to heaven or hell) but rather EVENTS and CALLINGS in world history are PREDESTINED to happen. Individual people are FOREORDAINED to live in the time and place that they are born (which allowed them the opportunities that were theirs).

So then, who are the Chosen? And why are they not able to be led astray?

The Chosen can be led astray.... It is not enough to live in a time and place you have the opportunity to hear the Gospel....YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. The Elect (those who choose to do something about it) can also be led asray if they discontinue to KEEP their Covenant.

The only ones who have proved their faithfulness are those who have done all the above and through a period of testing have proven themselves faithful----that they receive their "Calling and Election made Sure." This is what the Apostle Peter was admonishing the early Saints to work towards after they worked on their Divine Nature when he said,

• 2 Peter 1:10
  10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
  11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
  12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

 

[Janet Waters]

so free will is out of the window???

There are two ideas that are being merged together as though they are "one and the same" making both parts "right."

CORRECT: There is the idea that there are certain events and callings (such as the coming of an Anti-Christ) that are PREDESTINED to happen.

FALSE: There is the idea that certain people are PREDESTINED to fulfill certain roles (such as being the Anti-Christ) in the history of the world---and therefore they have no control over playing a good role or a bad role in committing good or bad acts towards humanity. [This is a product of Calvinism].

 

[Spiderman]

Ha

PERFECT HA!!! I actually thought of a science fiction story with a person who is the anti Christ but really doesn't want to be!!! Actually a decent woman but she eventually pancakes the entire emviromemt in an OCD fashion!!!

Sounds about right! I didn't want to be an Antichrist either, but God left me with no other choice but to find His tyrannical and cruel ways repulsive to the core!

 

[David T]

Sounds about right! I didn't want to be an Antichrist either, but God left me with no other choice but to find His tyrannical and cruel ways repulsive to the core!

Oh he is just the handy man!!! The real tyrant is his holy spirit!!! She's huge!!! I mean that most respectfully. Very beautiful too!!!

 

[Sleeppy]

Once again.....you are not being clear as to what it is was....that I said.....that necessitated your comments.



Here you are combining the [incorrect Calvinistic Predestination theory] with the true---correct doctrine of "Election by Grace." And then you are confusing the correct "Election by Grace" with the doctrine of having one's "Calling and Election Sure." If you are going to speak about true Doctrines.....don't confuse them with incorrect theories. And then don't mix up different Doctrines either.

Calvinism is a THEORY that should not be confused with actual Biblical Doctrines (which you misunderstand).

Anciently the "Elect" were CHOSEN by God because:
1). CHOSEN: They were the natural descendants of Abraham through his Covenent Birthright Sons (Abraham>Isaac>Jacob>Judah & Joseph) being Born of the Abrahamic Covenant.
2). ELECT: Besides being of the right pedigree and having the opportunity to receive the Covenant---the Elect are those who have KEPT their Covenant with God. (In other words, they were OBEDIENT to the covenant that they received).

Presently the Elect are CHOSEN by God because:
1). CHOSEN: After they are taught by Authorized Messengers of God's Covenant---they choise to be baptized (the covenant of adoption) to become the children of Jesus Christ.
2). ELECT: After receiving the Covenant of Adoption---the Elect are those who have KEPT their Covenant that God made with them. (In other words, they are OBEDIENT to the covenant that they received).

In order to make a Covenant with God--
1). ELECTION BY GRACE: It starts out with receiving the opportunity that is given by God---to HEAR HIS MESSAGE. The person is chosen because he lives in a time and place in which the true Gospel message is available and that person has the FREEDOM (agency) to CHOOSE it or reject it. One has been chosen (Election by Grace) to hear the gospel message.
2). ELECT: The Elect accept the message, make the Covenant with God, and KEEP that Covenant.

The correct understanding of Election by Grace---only God decides when and where His pure Gospel is presented. Those who hear that message are required to act with both faith and works (faith + works) to accept the opportunity and contnue to be faithful to the Covenant entered into.

Calvinism is a falsehood----Certain People are not PREDESTINED to go to heaven. Certain People are not PREDESTINED to go to hell either. Faith and Works are required of all people who end up in heaven. The better word to be used is that those people were FOREORDAINED to hear the message (because they lived in a day and place the gospel was available to them). But it is not enough to live in that place or time that it is available.....because one has to CHOOSE to accept it and live it to gain a seat in heaven.

People are not PREDESTINED (to be chosen or elected to go to heaven or hell) but rather EVENTS and CALLINGS in world history are PREDESTINED to happen. Individual people are FOREORDAINED to live in the time and place that they are born (which allowed them the opportunities that were theirs).



The Chosen can be led astray.... It is not enough to live in a time and place you have the opportunity to hear the Gospel....YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. The Elect (those who choose to do something about it) can also be led asray if they discontinue to KEEP their Covenant.

The only ones who have proved their faithfulness are those who have done all the above and through a period of testing have proven themselves faithful----that they receive their "Calling and Election made Sure." This is what the Apostle Peter was admonishing the early Saints to work towards after they worked on their Divine Nature when he said,

• 2 Peter 1:10
  10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
  11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
  12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

You aren't refuting what I've said, rather what God has said. But even so, you act according to the faculties afforded you by God.

I suggest you consider a few facts:

1) The universe expanded from one all-encompassingly dense and powerful point.
a) Conservation of Energy is one of God's most natural, and ancient laws.
b) Good will has no source in mankind, according to Jesus.
c) Free will necessitates that EACH CREATED PERSON BECOME A SOURCE, APART FROM GOD, i.e. BLASPHEMY AND AUTOLATRY.

2) Human behavior, or will, is rooted in casualty.
a) Psychology, Sociology, Medicine, Politics, Entertainment, etc. all rely on scientific (reproducible) observation and discovery.
b) No one honors Father and Mother, unless they first impart their honor (their inheritance, their prestige, their genes, etc.) The Son of Man is designed to ingest the knowledge of good, along with that of evil.
c) Free will necessitates IGNORANCE OF MAN'S INHERITANCE FROM GOD, i.e. BLASPHEMY AND AUTOLATRY.

3) God's own behavior is unchanging, i.e. beyond influences within time.
a) God's will is insurmountable. God is not a surmountable force.
b) Free will necessitates that GOD BE A SURMOUNTABLE FORCE, i.e. BLASPHEMY AND IDOLATRY.
4) God is all-knowing.
b) Free will necessitates that GOD BE IGNORANT OF HIS OWN CREATION, i.e. BLASPHEMY.


Which of these is not true?

 

[paarsurrey]

So there is so much end-time hysteria and talk about some false prophet who will rule the world.

Is the Antichrist called to be a good guy or a bad guy? Do you honestly think God wants him to be something other than what prophecy States he will be?

If he's just being what God wants him to be, God clearly wants him to have followers, so what's wrong with following Him?

Jesus believed in One-God and never believed in Trinity promoted by Paul, his associates and the Church. So Paul is the seed of Anti-Christ and the tree grown from this seed, the Modern Christianity is the Anti-Christ.

This false prophet-hood must be checked and smothered by reasonable arguments to erase this Anti-Christ.
Please
Regards

 

[Janet Waters]

You aren't refuting what I've said, rather what God has said. But even so, you act according to the faculties afforded you by God.

I suggest you consider a few facts:

1) The universe expanded from one all-encompassingly dense and powerful point.
a) Conservation of Energy is one of God's most natural, and ancient laws.
b) Good will has no source in mankind, according to Jesus.
c) Free will necessitates that EACH CREATED PERSON BECOME A SOURCE, APART FROM GOD, i.e. BLASPHEMY AND AUTOLATRY.

2) Human behavior, or will, is rooted in casualty.
a) Psychology, Sociology, Medicine, Politics, Entertainment, etc. all rely on scientific (reproducible) observation and discovery.
b) No one honors Father and Mother, unless they first impart their honor (their inheritance, their prestige, their genes, etc.) The Son of Man is designed to ingest the knowledge of good, along with that of evil.
c) Free will necessitates IGNORANCE OF MAN'S INHERITANCE FROM GOD, i.e. BLASPHEMY AND AUTOLATRY.

3) God's own behavior is unchanging, i.e. beyond influences within time.
a) God's will is insurmountable. God is not a surmountable force.
b) Free will necessitates that GOD BE A SURMOUNTABLE FORCE, i.e. BLASPHEMY AND IDOLATRY.
4) God is all-knowing.
b) Free will necessitates that GOD BE IGNORANT OF HIS OWN CREATION, i.e. BLASPHEMY.


Which of these is not true?

You have made quite of few theological assumptions that have caused to you to be out in left field. Most of the above.....I don't even know what to say about it! The headings don't really make any sense and I 'm not sure what the point is for 1. a, 2. a, 3. a, and 4. a.

1. b, c WRONG
2. b, c WRONG
3. b WRONG
4. b WRONG

 

[Janet Waters]

Jesus believed in One-God and never believed in Trinity promoted by Paul, his associates and the Church. So Paul is the seed of Anti-Christ and the tree grown from this seed, the Modern Christianity is the Anti-Christ.

1). The above idea about "One God" was presented to describe the "oneness" (unity) of purpose that exists between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It was meant figurately not literally. It was not meant to mean there was only 1 being---it was an adjective to describe "oneness" (meaning unity of purpose).

2). The "oneness" of the Godhead is a Parable......it was not meant to be taken literally.

3). The Trinity THEORY is not a Biblical Doctrine.

4). The Trinity THEORY replaced the Godhead Doctrine (which was the doctrine taught in the scriptures).

5). The Apostles (including Paul) coined the Godhead Doctrine (they knew nothing about the Trnity THEORY which had not been coined in their time period).

6). The Great Apostasy didn't happen until after the Apostles were put to death. Paul was the one who prophesied, that after his departing that there would be a great "falling away" [Apostasy] from the truth.

This false prophet-hood must be checked and smothered by reasonable arguments to erase this Anti-Christ.
Please
Regards

The Apostles were ordained with the Priesthood by Jesus Christ who held the MELCHIZEDEK Priesthood----they were not "false prophets." The false ones killed them off and therefore broke the Holy Covenant, changed the ordinances, and replaced the priesthood (becoming the priestcraft of Popes) instead of building upon the foundation of prophets and apostles (having Jesus Christ as the Chief Cornerstone).

Historically the Anti-Christ figures have been political figures who ruled over the Nations---all of whom fought to rule over Jerusalem, fought against the Covenant people, the Apostles, the prophets, and Jesus Christ (himself).

Anti-Christs---
Political Kingdoms and Kings who have fought to control Jerusalem:
1). Babylon and Nebachnazzar;
2). Meds/Persians and Cyrus;
3). Greeks and Alexander the Great;
4). Rome and Caesar.

***(Although Cyrus had a change of heart and sent the Jews back to Jerusalem and rebuilt the temple for them).