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Who Has £9,000 to Spend on Tuition Fees?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
Pennies are the most common cents!
I pay about $30,000 dollars a semester for my daughter's University of California, Berkeley (CAL) - that translates to £22,602 British Pound Sterling per semester.
However, that includes housing (viz dorm) and food, tuition, we put it all in one package pretty much here in California. All students are required to also have full healthcare coverage from a nearby medical center, so you can also add that to the UC cost by using the healthcare offered by the Ubiversity system, or private healthcare costs. The UC Berkeley healthcare coverage is $1,300 per semester, but I cover my daughter using private coverage through Kaiser.
So add another cost for REQUIRED healthcare for attending UC.
None of these costs include the costs for textbooks, some lab equipment, software, computers, laptop, et all. My daughter is in the sciences, the textbooks are not cheap - let me see, one book recently cost me $239.
For four years at UC Berkeley, this will cost me about $160,000 dollars, this translates to £120,545 British Pounds Sterling for four years. It will not include any offshore/overseas projects/research she may need to do. This is not uncommon, over time you really need to get to know some of the Professors who, frankly, expect you to be their "little worker bees" to assist them with the "leg work" (take blood, do this, do that, sample this, write my computer program for Linux to measure yadda, on and on, look up this case study...) ... oh yeah, forgot. My daughter is expected to reference and expand upon a researce "paper" and these things downloaded from national and international organizations cost money.
Do I think I am getting my money's worth? Not really.
But, I do think - and many agree including rankings - that Berkeley is top notch in the entire world in the sciences. They also have a Business school, Haas Business School, UC Berkeley, which is pretty top notch, in fact in they announced June 17th they will have a US-India International conference on business method, in fact India's Ambassador to the U.S. Arun Singh will be there.
But HAAS is even more tuff the first two years than the sciences depts. So there are other costs.
My daughter has friends at UC from India, Taiwan and China. These students - well let me just say the Indian students since I have met and spoken with the parents of such Indian families, they pay $60,000 dollars per semester, double what I pay, I even know the exact neighborhood for example in Kolkata of their parents, the very blocks they live, they are not poor but let me say $60,000 dollars per semester is not cheap for them, that would translate to ₹4,031,367 rupees per semester.
Do I think they are getting their money's worth? Not really.
Now, these Indian students are some of, in my opinion, the most intelligent in the entire world, I have no doubt about that and I know it without question. These are majors in engineering and very advanced sciences. Let me just say, my daughter is extremely smart - these Indian students are more smart, there is not exactlyna word to say how smart. They are more than smart.
Do I sound racist? No - but I have no problem in acknowledging what I clearly see. But they pay a lot, however - they will get excellent job offers, and will be able to pay back the expenses in time.
Now - I do not know of England and it's "situation" regarding this. About 40 years ago, I started small in investments, got better and better, my salary became very nice as well, but my investments made huge money and I planned for my daughter's education. But this is no doubt TOO MUCH for many. And especially if your major is not the sciences, business, or law - and your job will NOT pay back the costs, if you took loans, for DECADES if ever. Also for the last 8 years, these students in the US - unless you have a degree in certain sciences, engineering, law (though that is becoming dicey), business, well they are not getting actual professional jobs in this economy, certainly not to pay back any loans within reason.
I do not even include computer science degrees in this calculation of job opportunity that assist to pay back loans, while it was still true for a jib 5 or 10 years ago, unless you are the top today and have a CS and engineering COMBO, you will only find lousy jobs if at all, and I work in IT and have for 37 years in computer science and they are firing people, not hiring, no need for such populations of "computer geeks", just limited hiring and only for the very top. So forget it, I would NOT recommendna CS degree, anymore - those days are coming to an end, exactly the opposite of expected.
My view is, a lot of blame rests with the far leftwing socialist types of Professors at UC outside the sciences and business and engineering, in those other largely politicized fields, who are to blame for the high costs which constantly increase 100 times more than inflation. They think they are so smart, that THEY should rule the world, most are idiots and I know because I know Berkeley damn well - I AM Berkeley in human form - these socialists and communists live in the Berkeley Hills (been to their houses, my God I recall the party by one who taught German) and have these lavish parties snobbing with others as well as with corrupt politicians, they demand huge salaries for advocating communist crap and drive expensive Volvos. You do NOT get your money's worth from these lemurs and panda bears, who say "Power to the people" now treat me like gods and "I should run everything like Pol Pot did".
The loans made it worse. I support loans IF MANAGED PROPERLY FREE FROM POLITICAL CORRUPTION, but all that happens is the socialist pigs say give these easy loans which results not in lower tuitions but actually feeds dramatic INCREASES in tuition costs since the corrupt socialists can then increase the tuitions very easily getting the loan money from the debt of the students and REFORM NOTHING.
My solution?
Well I say make the private, internet, INTERNATIONAL, universities like a million flowers, give them accreditation, allow internet class rooms, ALLOW TEACHERS TO E-COLLABORATE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD with our students, fantastic educators from India and Taiwan for example. There should be THOUSANDS of such choices. Itnis possible, VERY possible today, VERY CHEAP. Your student stays home. In many cases, they are BETTER educated.
There is one area where this probably will not work... art. Art is very important - and to get a great art education THAT IS NOT NOR EVER WAS NOR EVER WILL BE cheap.
Obviously, cheating will be easier. So what? You have to be smart, develop certain skills to cheat anyway, it is normal in the job front.
Now for SOME degrees, that may not work. Some sciences - you need expensive lab equipment, the Professors I have met, for example the PURE GENIUS of one Russian scientist I met at UC - you may need the traditional University structure, to get the best from all over the world YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. THEY deserve the big money, not these socialist cretins and idiots and pompus fools.
But for many other degrees - INTERNATIONALIZE and COMPUTERIZE education, have MANY and accredit them - cheap. Do not act like we live in the 1800s anymore.
Get rid of the lemurs and pompus pandas in the old structure systems. INTERNATIONALIZE it. E-COLLABORATION CLASSROOM.
But - important - do NOT let Google get anywhere NEAR it. NO FACEBOOK FAKEBOOK.
However, that includes housing (viz dorm) and food, tuition, we put it all in one package pretty much here in California. All students are required to also have full healthcare coverage from a nearby medical center, so you can also add that to the UC cost by using the healthcare offered by the Ubiversity system, or private healthcare costs. The UC Berkeley healthcare coverage is $1,300 per semester, but I cover my daughter using private coverage through Kaiser.
So add another cost for REQUIRED healthcare for attending UC.
None of these costs include the costs for textbooks, some lab equipment, software, computers, laptop, et all. My daughter is in the sciences, the textbooks are not cheap - let me see, one book recently cost me $239.
For four years at UC Berkeley, this will cost me about $160,000 dollars, this translates to £120,545 British Pounds Sterling for four years. It will not include any offshore/overseas projects/research she may need to do. This is not uncommon, over time you really need to get to know some of the Professors who, frankly, expect you to be their "little worker bees" to assist them with the "leg work" (take blood, do this, do that, sample this, write my computer program for Linux to measure yadda, on and on, look up this case study...) ... oh yeah, forgot. My daughter is expected to reference and expand upon a researce "paper" and these things downloaded from national and international organizations cost money.
Do I think I am getting my money's worth? Not really.
But, I do think - and many agree including rankings - that Berkeley is top notch in the entire world in the sciences. They also have a Business school, Haas Business School, UC Berkeley, which is pretty top notch, in fact in they announced June 17th they will have a US-India International conference on business method, in fact India's Ambassador to the U.S. Arun Singh will be there.
But HAAS is even more tuff the first two years than the sciences depts. So there are other costs.
My daughter has friends at UC from India, Taiwan and China. These students - well let me just say the Indian students since I have met and spoken with the parents of such Indian families, they pay $60,000 dollars per semester, double what I pay, I even know the exact neighborhood for example in Kolkata of their parents, the very blocks they live, they are not poor but let me say $60,000 dollars per semester is not cheap for them, that would translate to ₹4,031,367 rupees per semester.
Do I think they are getting their money's worth? Not really.
Now, these Indian students are some of, in my opinion, the most intelligent in the entire world, I have no doubt about that and I know it without question. These are majors in engineering and very advanced sciences. Let me just say, my daughter is extremely smart - these Indian students are more smart, there is not exactlyna word to say how smart. They are more than smart.
Do I sound racist? No - but I have no problem in acknowledging what I clearly see. But they pay a lot, however - they will get excellent job offers, and will be able to pay back the expenses in time.
Now - I do not know of England and it's "situation" regarding this. About 40 years ago, I started small in investments, got better and better, my salary became very nice as well, but my investments made huge money and I planned for my daughter's education. But this is no doubt TOO MUCH for many. And especially if your major is not the sciences, business, or law - and your job will NOT pay back the costs, if you took loans, for DECADES if ever. Also for the last 8 years, these students in the US - unless you have a degree in certain sciences, engineering, law (though that is becoming dicey), business, well they are not getting actual professional jobs in this economy, certainly not to pay back any loans within reason.
I do not even include computer science degrees in this calculation of job opportunity that assist to pay back loans, while it was still true for a jib 5 or 10 years ago, unless you are the top today and have a CS and engineering COMBO, you will only find lousy jobs if at all, and I work in IT and have for 37 years in computer science and they are firing people, not hiring, no need for such populations of "computer geeks", just limited hiring and only for the very top. So forget it, I would NOT recommendna CS degree, anymore - those days are coming to an end, exactly the opposite of expected.
My view is, a lot of blame rests with the far leftwing socialist types of Professors at UC outside the sciences and business and engineering, in those other largely politicized fields, who are to blame for the high costs which constantly increase 100 times more than inflation. They think they are so smart, that THEY should rule the world, most are idiots and I know because I know Berkeley damn well - I AM Berkeley in human form - these socialists and communists live in the Berkeley Hills (been to their houses, my God I recall the party by one who taught German) and have these lavish parties snobbing with others as well as with corrupt politicians, they demand huge salaries for advocating communist crap and drive expensive Volvos. You do NOT get your money's worth from these lemurs and panda bears, who say "Power to the people" now treat me like gods and "I should run everything like Pol Pot did".
The loans made it worse. I support loans IF MANAGED PROPERLY FREE FROM POLITICAL CORRUPTION, but all that happens is the socialist pigs say give these easy loans which results not in lower tuitions but actually feeds dramatic INCREASES in tuition costs since the corrupt socialists can then increase the tuitions very easily getting the loan money from the debt of the students and REFORM NOTHING.
My solution?
Well I say make the private, internet, INTERNATIONAL, universities like a million flowers, give them accreditation, allow internet class rooms, ALLOW TEACHERS TO E-COLLABORATE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD with our students, fantastic educators from India and Taiwan for example. There should be THOUSANDS of such choices. Itnis possible, VERY possible today, VERY CHEAP. Your student stays home. In many cases, they are BETTER educated.
There is one area where this probably will not work... art. Art is very important - and to get a great art education THAT IS NOT NOR EVER WAS NOR EVER WILL BE cheap.
Obviously, cheating will be easier. So what? You have to be smart, develop certain skills to cheat anyway, it is normal in the job front.
Now for SOME degrees, that may not work. Some sciences - you need expensive lab equipment, the Professors I have met, for example the PURE GENIUS of one Russian scientist I met at UC - you may need the traditional University structure, to get the best from all over the world YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. THEY deserve the big money, not these socialist cretins and idiots and pompus fools.
But for many other degrees - INTERNATIONALIZE and COMPUTERIZE education, have MANY and accredit them - cheap. Do not act like we live in the 1800s anymore.
Get rid of the lemurs and pompus pandas in the old structure systems. INTERNATIONALIZE it. E-COLLABORATION CLASSROOM.
But - important - do NOT let Google get anywhere NEAR it. NO FACEBOOK FAKEBOOK.
Last edited:
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
This sounds like the left -- the traditional supporters of the interests of the common man -- has been hijacked by opportunist hypocrites; covert right-wingers. From a historical perspective it was the political right that privatized and monetized the formerly free/subsidized State University systems.
Hx: Fifty years ago The University of California system, like many in the country, was free for instate students. It was governor Reagan, outraged at the student anti-war and civil rights protests he observed at Berkeley in the late 60s, who began the transformation of UC (&al) to the commercial, for-profit corporations you're paying for today.
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/06/08_reagan.shtml
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
I would be open to making tuition fee for STEM courses, which would have a greater chance of moving graduates into higher tax brackets, not any old arts degree.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The problem with such thinking is it assumes that the arts degree student won't make it far. We shouldn't be shrugging off STEM, but we shouldn't stigmatize the arts. Many tattoo artists, for example, do have a degree in arts and they can make some serious cash is they are good at what they do. Musicians can take a music degree and go to great lengths. Even a new media degree can open doors for someone (albeit it tends to be an extremely competitive and cutthroat industry).
What we need is more honesty in that school is for an education to finely hone your skills and interests so you can enter your chosen degree, and not something that holds expectations of what you should do and where you should go. I chose psychology and arts because it's what I do, English writing to prep me for the writing and research demands of grad school, and philosophy to give myself a diverse background in various thoughts and ideologies (at least where I go it's common for psych majors to have a philosophy minor). And if you ask me, we need more things such as philosophy in everyone's curriculum to promote critical thinking and to have your own ideas challenged and forcing yourself into a position of having to defend your own positions while putting together a well thought out critique of opposing view points.
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
Government needs to get its money back, I can only see that viable with STEM courses.
I'm not trying to slate arts degrees as unworthy or less important, but economically, I don't see a net financial gain. I'm open to changing my mind if there were some stats that showed arts graduates would produce the net benefit the government would need to justify socialising university.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
I agree with this. We shouldn't have to pay tuition, especially such extortionate rates.
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
You talking about the UK? A small percentage of salary over a number of years that then gets wiped clean if unpaid is not 'extortionate', really.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
Huh? What are you saying?
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Because England votes for parties that privatise tuition. You want government-subsidised learning like us? Vote for or form a party that has it as a policy
Yeah, how come the Scots get free tutiion and free prescriptions and free haggis too I shouldn't wonder. It isn't FAIR! Who is paying for all this?
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
He's saying you only start paying back funding on your tuition once you earn over a certain amount per year. You can make voluntary payments on a lower salary too. If you don't make payments after a certain amount of time the tuition fees are written off by the Government as 'bad debt'.
The only problem is tuition loans adversely affect your credit rating while it sits there which can make things like getting a mortgage for a house harder.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I can see that being a major problem for young people.
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
I don't know of anyone finding trouble getting a mortgage because they have student debt affecting their credit rating, especially with the help to buy scheme.
And all centient beings enjoy a bad pun.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
The written off aspect is no longer true as the law is going to be changed.
Secondly, it's not just about paying off the loan, it's about putting off future students from lower income backgrounds. And possibly even more pertinent is putting off students from lower income backgrounds who already have a degree but wish to push forward with a masters or some other degree. The job market in the UK is so stale now, a degree is almost worthless without a masters or a second degree. The costs for these are also rising.
At the end of the day, there is no excuse for a wealthy country which spends billions every year on war to not be able to spend less on education.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Preach brother, preach.
I'm sorry to hear the law is being tightened up again - especially by a government that got into power by more-likely-than-not cheating at the last election.