Who Has the truth? Who Will Bring World Peace?

[TransmutingSoul]

It's a case of wait and see really. The truth is the truth no matter what any of us believe. Some of us will find it....but according to our scripture, the majority will not, sidetracked by a master deceiver who has managed to cater to people's own deep desires and lead them down the wrong path. (1 John 5:19; Matthew 7:13-14) God will not interfere with their exercise of free will.

The 'new world order' offered by man is a trap, baited with promises of 'peace and security', but according to the Revelation, it will herald the introduction of a totalitarian world government that will attempt to control everything that we do. It won't last long according to scripture. Freedom is too precious to give up. Chaos will be unleashed. The greatest tribulation this world has ever seen is coming. (Matthew 24:21)

God's people will not need to fight, because this is not our battle. (Isaiah 26:20)

We are ready for what's coming......are you?

Faith is a gift that God gives to whosoever God chooses to. God knows our heart and intent in Faith. The key in finding God may be as to how much self still drives us? We can not serve two masters.

I see that the Message of Baha'u'llah about the Oneness of God and oneness of humaity is the helping medicine and Baha'is have been working with that since the mid 1800's

Since one of the greatest things used against the Baha'i is the size of the Faith, one may have to consider that one is part of the majority. Christ has a new Name, the 'Glory of God', as promised.

The master deceiver is our own self, as all good is from God and all evil is from our own selves.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We are ready for what's coming......are you?

I see many that think they are, may not be.

Only God knows our heart, if we truly know our heart we would know God.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Just needed to make a quick comment about this statement. I and the majority of other former JWs have been pretty much gobsmacked to find out that there are many examples of love, goodness, and beauty in the world. Basically, all of the ex-JWs I know left the JW organization for many reasons (most of which do not, despite what JWs believe, involve any desire to commit immorality or become drug addicts) but all of us feared what we would find in "the world."

Those of us who had been brought up as JWs--either born in or brought in as young children--were taught that the only safe place with good, honest people was in the JW organization. The "world" was a dangerous place filled with evil and very little goodness. We knew we couldn't stay in the JW organization, but we were terrified of what we "knew" was out there.

Then we discovered that the JW organization had lied to us. It was all part of the control they seek to exercise over people. We discovered that the majority of people in "the world" were decent and honest...and that was a shock.

Thank you for your contributions to this thread. It is no easy thing to leave a faith you have been brought up with. The JWs has never appealed to me but I enjoy talking to people’s of other faiths and better understanding why they believe what they do. Where are you now in your spiritual journey if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[Dawnofhope]

It's a case of wait and see really. The truth is the truth no matter what any of us believe. Some of us will find it....but according to our scripture, the majority will not, sidetracked by a master deceiver who has managed to cater to people's own deep desires and lead them down the wrong path. (1 John 5:19; Matthew 7:13-14) God will not interfere with their exercise of free will.

The 'new world order' offered by man is a trap, baited with promises of 'peace and security', but according to the Revelation, it will herald the introduction of a totalitarian world government that will attempt to control everything that we do. It won't last long according to scripture. Freedom is too precious to give up. Chaos will be unleashed. The greatest tribulation this world has ever seen is coming. (Matthew 24:21)

God's people will not need to fight, because this is not our battle. (Isaiah 26:20)

We are ready for what's coming......are you?

None of us truly know the future. I see positive changes since the nineteenth century and it confirms for me the peace foretold by the Israelite prophets. During the twentieth century there were at least three distinct periods where humanity made significant strides towards being united as one people. The first was after WWI with the formation of the league of nations. Unfortunately the provisions of this first international body was fatally flawed. The American president Woodrow Wilson was a visionary but the other nations were not ready to adopt key aspects of his proposal. This inevitably led to WWII which was arguably the most destructive war in human history. From the carnage arose the United Nations that managed to overcome many of the deficiencies of the aborted league of nations. Along with this international body, agencies were established for greater economic cooperation and tribunals to adjudicate on international matters. As colonialism lost its grip many nations were free for the first time to have a much greater say as to how to run their affairs. Unfortunately the cold war followed with a sizeable portion of the worlds population (about one third) opting towards communist inspired governments. This led to unprecedented violations of human rights in some places and economic stagnation for most of these regimes. With the collapse of communism in the late 1980s followed another period of renewed optimism and resurgence in global cooperation. Unfortunately the period in which we currently live has seen the rise of nationalism, racism and chaos. There appears to be many currents of human activity that are pulling people apart, rather than uniting us. It seems quite possible that world affairs may deteriorate further with another global catastrophe in our midst. However, I would anticipate that as with the two world wars and the cold war, a greater level of international cooperation will emerge.

I don't believe for one moment the future predicted by the Jehovah witnesses based on a literal interpretation of the book of revelation will come to pass. Besides, your faith community has been predicting dates for Armageddon since the nineteenth century.

Watch Tower Society unfulfilled predictions - Wikipedia

 

[Dawnofhope]

Thanks for that, Tony. If I ever return to religion, it will be Baha'i thanks to you and Adrian. Your faith seems to generate people that can make the world a better place.

I'm really enjoying your contribution to this thread. Apart from having another doctor in the house, its good to have your well considered reflections. The nature of truth, reality and what the future holds is something that concerns us all. Too often religion leads to distortions of reality rather than truth. I hope you take the time to hang out with some Baha'is in your locality, if even just to share perspectives.

 

[Deeje]

Faith is a gift that God gives to whosoever God chooses to. God knows our heart and intent in Faith. The key in finding God may be as to how much self still drives us? We can not serve two masters.

Well you see, this is what I mean.....when you say 'we can't slave for two masters', you misapply what Jesus said. He used that to describe slaving for God or riches, which he said were opposite courses.

When you said..."All the Messengers of God are the givers of the Truth and It is those Messengers that bring about the peace and security of man."......then all I see is mixed messages that you try to meld into one faith....they are all conflicting messages given in different belief systems at different times. None of it gels unless you pick and choose and misapply scripture to fit it all in.

I see that the Message of Baha'u'llah about the Oneness of God and oneness of humaity is the helping medicine and Baha'is have been working with that since the mid 1800's

You see the 'oneness of humanity' taking how long to achieve? And by what means? Is the medicine working? How cohesive do you see the world? Mankind has had more than enough time and experience to have worked it all out by now....yet the world remains more divided than ever. The doomsday clock remains at 2 minutes to midnight. Do the atomic scientists know more than we do?

The Bible's message is that God chooses those in whom he sees an obedient and humble spirit, as well as being co-operative with fellow humans in achieving oneness of thought and action in serving their Creator according to his purpose.

Since one of the greatest things used against the Baha'i is the size of the Faith, one may have to consider that one is part of the majority. Christ has a new Name, the 'Glory of God', as promised.

I see that Christ has a new name in the Bible, but it is not disclosed until the King completes his mission and is established as Earth's only appointed Administrator.

On his return to heaven, Jesus said...."The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name."

Those who are made "pillars" in God's spiritual Temple, have the name of the Father, the name of the holy city "New Jerusalem" and Jesus own "new name" (not disclosed) written on them.

The master deceiver is our own self, as all good is from God and all evil is from our own selves.

According to Jesus, the master deceiver is the devil. If Jesus was the son of God then he had no deception in him. He was tempted by satan, whom Jesus called the "father of the lie".....taking us back to Eden when the devil lied to the woman about the forbidden fruit.

If evil was "from our own selves" then we would not have the word "inhuman" in our vocabulary.
Evil would be "human".
All of the most heinous acts of barbarity in recorded history can rightly be described as "inhuman"....i.e. not in accord within the range of 'normal' human thinking or activity......but from outside of it.

If as the Bible says, "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" then there is an evil 'outside' influence that we see clearly in the actions of men like Hitler and his henchmen...Pol Pot...Idi Amin.....and their ilk.

 

[Vinayaka]

World peace hasn't happened yet, despite so many promises, so many predictions. Hey, just maybe it isn't going to happen, isn't supposed to happen. Just sayin'

 

[TransmutingSoul]

World peace hasn't happened yet, despite so many promises, so many predictions. Hey, just maybe it isn't going to happen, isn't supposed to happen. Just sayin'

Personally I see an inner and outer unfolding of peace. Both take time.

If there is one great thing I have found from reading passages from the many Holy Books, it is that this promise is in all of them.

Logical conclusion is, if they are right, they are all right, if they are wrong they are all wrong.

I personally choose they are all right.

Thus I see we are living in the age where the events that will bring the lesser peace are multiplying each day, this will be the foundation of that promised Most Great Peace.

What a great day to live in!

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I see that Christ has a new name in the Bible, but it is not disclosed until the King completes his mission and is established as Earth's only appointed Administrator.

I have had many if these conversations with my JW friends. I in turn can only provide an alternate biblical view.

Our One God is the only one we are to turn to.

The new name has been disclosed and the King of Kings has come. Baha'u'llah translated means the 'Glory of God', or 'Glory of the Lord'.

If One reads the Bible one can see the Glory of God shall light the earth at the end of the age. The age of prophecy came to an end with Muhammad, the seal of the Prophets. The age of fulfillment started in 1844 with the Message of the Bab (Gate)

You will also note the Bible says that the Glory of God comes by the way of the Gate from the east and that Mt Carmel shall see the 'Glory of God'.

It has all come to pass.

Regards Tony

 

[Deeje]

I have had many if these conversations with my JW friends. I in turn can only provide an alternate biblical view.

Our One God is the only one we are to turn to.

The new name has been disclosed and the King of Kings has come. Baha'u'llah translated means the 'Glory of God', or 'Glory of the Lord'.

If One reads the Bible one can see the Glory of God shall light the earth at the end of the age. The age of prophecy came to an end with Muhammad, the seal of the Prophets. The age of fulfillment started in 1844 with the Message of the Bab (Gate)

You will also note the Bible says that the Glory of God comes by the way of the Gate from the east and that Mt Carmel shall see the 'Glory of God'.

It has all come to pass.

It's all in the interpretation I guess. Not "what" you believe, but "who" you believe.

If Jesus said that "salvation originates with the Jews", (John 4:20-26) then to me, that rules out Islam as a source of divine knowledge....and anything connected with it.

Ishmael was not the son through whom the promise came. That was to go to from Abraham to Isaac and then to Jacob and his offspring. That eliminates Ishmael, Mohammed and Baha'u'llah and anything they had to say, according to my beliefs.

This is why I can't accept that God would give mankind mixed messages through all these different prophets in different belief systems as Baha'i accepts. God kept Israel completely separated from the religions of the Gentiles (any who were not Jewish). When Israel adopted false worship, he punished them. How does Baha'i overcome this fact, except to ignore the parts of the Bible that disagree with their worldview?

There is complete exclusivity in connection with Israel. Jesus was Jewish and those who came to accept him as Messiah had to stay within the confines of what he taught. Again, there was no toleration of teachings from outside of his inspired counsel. The Bible says that Jesus was "the heir of all things" and that he spoke as God's prophet. There were no successors, (Hebrews 1:1-4) and no need for any other scripture. (2 John 10-11)

This is why I could never accept your belief system.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Thank you for your contributions to this thread. It is no easy thing to leave a faith you have been brought up with. The JWs has never appealed to me but I enjoy talking to people’s of other faiths and better understanding why they believe what they do. Where are you now in your spiritual journey if you don’t mind me asking?

It was definitely difficult to leave the JWs, and, as a matter of fact, it took me years to totally break free. There were things that I saw within the organization that didn't gibe with what they taught, but I initially blamed myself for having the wrong attitude and tried to "adjust my thinking" so that I could remain as a JW.

I eventually became inactive, but still believed that JWs had the "truth" and I tried very hard to re-activate myself (constantly hoping that the JW elders would reach out to me as a "lost sheep" and help me to return--didn't happen, though, despite my asking for help on several occasions.)

Eventually, my husband and I moved to a new area and began attending the local congregation. After having been inactive for a number of years, I saw things differently (scales lifted from my eyes, perhaps?) and the actions of the elders involving lies and deceit caused me to finally realize that I could no longer remain as a JW.

Unfortunately, my decades as a JW made me quite apprehensive about joining any other organized religion, so I remain churchless, but try to continue to lead a spiritual life with a personal connection to God.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

None of us truly know the future. I see positive changes since the nineteenth century and it confirms for me the peace foretold by the Israelite prophets. During the twentieth century there were at least three distinct periods where humanity made significant strides towards being united as one people. The first was after WWI with the formation of the league of nations. Unfortunately the provisions of this first international body was fatally flawed. The American president Woodrow Wilson was a visionary but the other nations were not ready to adopt key aspects of his proposal. This inevitably led to WWII which was arguably the most destructive war in human history. From the carnage arose the United Nations that managed to overcome many of the deficiencies of the aborted league of nations. Along with this international body, agencies were established for greater economic cooperation and tribunals to adjudicate on international matters. As colonialism lost its grip many nations were free for the first time to have a much greater say as to how to run their affairs. Unfortunately the cold war followed with a sizeable portion of the worlds population (about one third) opting towards communist inspired governments. This led to unprecedented violations of human rights in some places and economic stagnation for most of these regimes. With the collapse of communism in the late 1980s followed another period of renewed optimism and resurgence in global cooperation. Unfortunately the period in which we currently live has seen the rise of nationalism, racism and chaos. There appears to be many currents of human activity that are pulling people apart, rather than uniting us. It seems quite possible that world affairs may deteriorate further with another global catastrophe in our midst. However, I would anticipate that as with the two world wars and the cold war, a greater level of international cooperation will emerge.

I don't believe for one moment the future predicted by the Jehovah witnesses based on a literal interpretation of the book of revelation will come to pass. Besides, your faith community has been predicting dates for Armageddon since the nineteenth century.

Watch Tower Society unfulfilled predictions - Wikipedia

Hmmm...I'm just a bit surprised that Deeje didn't jump right in and let you know what JWs believe about the League of Nations and the United Nations.

Rather than considering these organizations a step in the right direction, JWs believe that the UN has put itself in place of God's Kingdom and is trying to usurp the role that should rightly belong only to God's Kingdom. Furthermore, they teach that the UN is, in reality, the "image of the Wild Beast" of Revelation and that the UN will very shortly turn on religion to abolish it. As soon as the JW religion is attacked, however, Jehovah will then step in and destroy the current world system, ushering in the New System, into which JWs will happily skip.

I guess she's trying to back off from some of the more, shall we say, unattractive beliefs of the JWs?

What is interesting, however, is that, despite condemning the UN as the "image of the Wild Beast," the Watchtower Society affiliated itself as an NGO for approximately ten years because they felt that the UN could offer them some good benefits. Most JWs refuse to believe this, however, or they claim that the WTS did this simply to get a "library card" which has been denied by the UN when questioned about this.

 

[Vinayaka]

If there is one great thing I have found from reading passages from the many Holy Books, it is that this promise is in all of them.

All of them? Please show me quotes from the Vedas or Tirumanthiram where this promise is. Apparently you've personally read all these books, so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

All of them? Please show me quotes from the Vedas or Tirumanthiram where this promise is. Apparently you've personally read all these books, so it shouldn't be a problem.

That would be me doing your homework. Google is a friend.

I love it that that many Hindu writings from many sources point to a Golden age. I do not need to have read all the scriptures to see the picture they are part of. The same Great Artist becomes apparent in all.

How about the oneness of humanity From the Atharva Veda:

"O mankind! I ordain for you to have concordance in your heart, unanimity in your minds and freedom from hatred. Every one of you ought to love one another in every way just as the cow loves the calf just born AV 3-30-1 (sahrudhayam samanya………………… AV 3-30-1)

"O Mankind! Who are respectful to the elders possessing noble hearts, friendly, in your undertakings of acquiring wealth and walking in the same path bearing the common yoke together, be never disunited with one another, come, I make you one intentioned and one minded and each one of you speak sweetly to the other AV 3-30-5 (Jyayasva……………- AV 3-30-5)

"O Mankind! I enjoin on all of you to be mutually helping one another, to be united in your mind and to have common ideal of life for benefitting one another. Like the enlightened persons whoever take care of immortal principle (in their life) may the friendly feelings amongst you increase morning and evening" AV 3-30-7 (sadhdni chinan va: ……………………. AV 3-30-7)

How else can we do this, if we do not accept our oneness under One God?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hmmm...I'm just a bit surprised that Deeje didn't jump right in and let you know what JWs believe about the League of Nations and the United Nations.

I have talked often on this subject with JW friends, we agree to disagree. I offer to them that it is a sad how one can see efforts for unity without prejudice as satanic.

All good is from God, all evil is from our own selves.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

All the Messengers of God are the givers of the Truth and It is those Messengers that bring about the peace and security of man.

The peace and security of mankind is unattainable, unless and until its unity is firmly established. That unity is not possible while the councils of the Messengers go unheeded.

Not counsels of "the Messengers"... Counsels of Baha'u'llah.
The actual quote is below; the Pen of the Most High is the Pen of Baha'u'llah

“My object is none other than the betterment of the world and the tranquillity of its peoples. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 286

The older Messengers and religions are not going to bring security and peace to this world; all the older religions do is thwart progress by clinging to their older religions, like a child clings to a baby blanket, which means they will never recognize Baha'u'llah, because one cannot have "two religions.".

So as I see it is that what is holding back progress is the religious believers of older religions who constitute 84% of the population of the world. (84 percent of the world population has a faith)

Christians who believe that Jesus is going to return and "fix everything" are not doing anything but waiting for Jesus to do what God has entrusted humans to do through Baha'u'llah. Jesus is not coming with a magic wand to recreate the world; in fact, Jesus is not coming at all because He died on the cross. This is a fantasy and it is harmful to everyone in the the world. An estimated 60% of people in the United States alone believe that Jesus is coming back to fix things. I do not understand how any rational person cannot understand how this belief is harmful to humanity.

It is not the atheists who are holding back progress of humanity because most atheists I know care about the world situation, the social, political and environmental problems, and they are not waiting for Jesus or God to fix them. I can offer innumerable examples of such atheists.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The older Messengers and religions are not going to bring security and peace to this world; all the older religions do is thwart progress by clinging to their older religions, like a child clings to a baby blanket, which means they will never recognize Baha'u'llah, because one cannot have "two religions."

I see no difference between the potential of the Messages of all the Messengers, all can be world embracing, as they now are for many people.

Each Message of the past is contained within the Message of Baha'u'llah, the inner essence of them all is in the Hidden Words.

If we heed the Message of Christ, we heed the messages of all the Messengers, likewise for Muhammad, Krishna or Buddha to name a few, They are one.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I see no difference between the potential of the Messages of all the Messengers, all can be world embracing, as they now are for many people.

What the Messages of all the older Messengers are doing is holding people back from recognizing Baha'u'lalh. I do not understand why you cannot see that after all your time on forums. Does it matter if people recognize Baha'u'llah? If not, I am going to take my toys and go home.

But clearly it matters because Baha'u'llah said so, over and over and over again.

Each Message of the past is contained within the Message of Baha'u'llah, the inner essence of them all is in the Hidden Words.

If each Message of the past is contained within the Message of Baha'u'llah, why do we need the messages of the past? Logic would tell us that we do not need them.

If we heed the Message of Christ, we heed the messages of all the Messengers, likewise for Muhammad, Krishna or Buddha to name a few, They are one.

No, that is not true because their messages are not the same, and we do not need the messages from the past religions; they just serve to keep people back from the message of Baha'u'llah.

The eternal spiritual verities as revealed in the Hidden Words are the same in all religions but the social teachings and laws and the message for the age is not the same:

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213​

We do not need the message of Christ anymore because the Dispensation of Christ has been unconditionally abrogated by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. Shoghi Effendi wrote that in God Passes By and i think you were the one who posted that to me.

According to Baha'u'llah we are supposed to turn towards His Manifestation (Baha'u'llah) and what He has revealed, but as long as people are directed towards the Messengers of the past, they will never turn towards Baha'u'llah. They cannot be a Christian and a Baha'i because the religions are contradictory. This is simple logic.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings. pp. 171-172​

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What the Messages of all the older Messengers are doing is holding people back from recognizing Baha'u'lalh. I do not understand why you cannot see that after all your time on forums. Does it matter if people recognize Baha'u'llah? If not, I am going to take my toys and go home.

But clearly it matters because Baha'u'llah said so, over and over and over again.

If each Message of the past is contained within the Message of Baha'u'llah, why do we need the messages of the past? Logic would tell us that we do not need them.

No, that is not true because their messages are not the same, and we do not need the messages from the past religions; they just serve to keep people back from the message of Baha'u'llah.

The eternal spiritual verities as revealed in the Hidden Words are the same in all religions but the social teachings and laws and the message for the age is not the same:

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213​

We do not need the message of Christ anymore because the Dispensation of Christ has been unconditionally abrogated by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. Shoghi Effendi wrote that in God Passes By and i think you were the one who posted that to me.

According to Baha'u'llah we are supposed to turn towards His Manifestation (Baha'u'llah) and what He has revealed, but as long as people are directed towards the Messengers of the past, they will never turn towards Baha'u'llah. They cannot be a Christian and a Baha'i because the religions are contradictory. This is simple logic.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings. pp. 171-172​

To me one has to separate what has become of the Word from what is the Word.

You can see it as you wish to Trailblazer. That is the great thing about free will.

A million quotes does not change what we see. We must look into the quote to see what it says.

I choose to see Baha'u'llah in them all, that is why they came, that is what they were preparing us for.

I need not argue the point, but I will offer this;

"...Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers...."

Regards Tony

 

[Deeje]

I have talked often on this subject with JW friends, we agree to disagree. I offer to them that it is a sad how one can see efforts for unity without prejudice as satanic.

Agreeing to disagree is often the only option......as I said, its a wait and see. The plain fact is we can't all be right.
But there is one truth, regardless of what any of us believe. Obviously, some have it and some don't. Time will tell.

As for satan, we don't expect him to be always nasty in his approach.....What's the old saying...? "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".

The Apostle Paul wrote at 2 Corinthians 11:3-4; 13-15.......
"But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ. 4 For as it is, if someone comes and preaches a Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a spirit other than what you received, or good news other than what you accepted, you easily put up with him. . . . .
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works."

If the devil can present himself as an "angel of light", then Paul said his "ministers" (servants) can present themselves as "ministers of righteousness". Deception is not always easy to spot. We cannot be deceived unless we have no idea that we are being duped. We usually only find out when the damage is done....and usually too late.

All good is from God, all evil is from our own selves.

The Bible disagrees with this, so you have to give up turning to the Bible to back up your beliefs.
Accept the teachings of your prophet by all means if it appeals to you, but please don't pretend that the Bible or any of Christ's teachings support the teachings of Baha'i. I can't see that they are even close.