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Who here believes in "Scientism"?

Is this a concession on your part? Are we calling The Activity ‘science’ now?

The level of abstraction is not, imo, particularly helpful. You seem to be pretty much using it to talk about the sciences anyway, as you exempt things like philosophy from being part of "The Activity". I also think the point you are getting at is the result of you misunderstanding the most basic point of my entire argument (as will be explained later, although it has been explained many times before).

If I were to use your definition, for me, "The Activity" would include things like literature, history, politics, philosophy and so forth. Terms like humanities and science may be flawed, but I prefer the ability to differentiate the category including history and literature from that which includes chemistry and physics.

I also don't really see much of a payoff for the level of abstraction. Saying people may overestimate the ability of the (current) methods of the (what we now call the) sciences to produce accurate results in many areas of enquiry describes a real phenomenon which is not removed simply by changing the terminology we use and defining it out of existence.

Yours is more a normative prescription for the future whereas I'm describing a positive feature of modern society.

The term ‘scientism’ is an attack on The Activity. The term is used to establish and maintain a boundary between what should and should not be evaluated by The Activity, regardless of how you want to backpedal from how this term is being used in academic philosophy. We cannot understand what is, why it is, and what is possible, however, if we do not try, and if we are going to try it must be through The Activity, with its millennia of lessons learned, mandates to establish and maintain objectivity and mitigate, to best ability, human fallibility throughout the process. Otherwise we futilely spin our wheels, at the mercy of fallible human reasoning.

I would, again, really advise against shifting the "can not" into "should not" as this would be to create a strawman rather than to address the point being made. I have tried to explain this many times, and am not really sure as to why you remain fixated on the idea that "can not" and "should not" are identical in meaning.

If I said to someone in the 17th C "you can not build a functioning aeroplane", that would have been factually correct. It would also be very different from saying "you should not [try to] build a functioning aeroplane", as this is a prescriptive limitation on behaviour rather than a description of fact. If someone were to argue that they were the same thing, this would be to misrepresent and misunderstand. I'm sure you understand with this example, but again the magical effect of the word "scientism" comes into effect and people suddenly can't agree with things they would normally agree with.

Using current accepted definitions of the term:

There are questions that can not be answered scientifically (What is science? What is knowledge?) because they can not be tested or falsified by empirical experimentation or observation. In addition there are other areas that science can certainly play a limited role in, but we cannot ultimately answer the question, for example "What was the historical Muhammad really like?" This is because most of the evidence that exist is very incomplete, literary and often legendary, and can only be interpreted subjectively even by the most rigorous investigator.

There are also areas of science that produce very unreliable outputs due to their nature and the limitations this puts on scientific methodology. Maybe these methods can be improved in the future, maybe they are to an extent insoluble, but that is irrelevant to whether or not at present this is an accurate description of factual reality.

Nothing there relates to "should not". There is no call to ban social science because it is horrendously inaccurate. No one suggests banning medical research because over 90% of new drugs never reach the marketplace. But as we know many new drugs are unsafe, we are very sceptical about how we proceed and use these new medicines. We would caution against overconfidence in their likely efficacy and safety.

I simply disagree here. Problems are problems. Some are harder to solve than others, and some are well beyond our means to answer for the foreseeable future. Regardless, all fall within the remit of The Activity if objective understanding and solutions are to be found. Creating hard category boundaries between what you want to call ‘natural sciences’ and ‘social sciences’ is an artificial boundary that will only exacerbate errors related to categorical thinking. Human beings and their associated behaviors *are natural*, they *are a part of nature*. Forgive my use of woo terminology here but understanding human beings requires a holistic and integrated approach that seeks to understand both the neuro-physiology and the complexities of abstract thinking, as they function as an integrated whole.

Creating a boundary between The Activity and fortune telling is an artificial boundary, or creating a boundary between golf and tennis is an artificial boundary. Words themselves are artificial boundaries.

The science/social science distinction is not even a hard category boundaries as things often overlap, they are loose, general classifications of things that help aid clarity and understanding.

No one proposes that we can't combine philosophy and neuroscience (in fact its not uncommon for philosophy graduates to move into fields like neuroscience at postgrad level). I'm more than happy to consider science a subset of philosophy if it helps remove boundaries.

The idea we can understand happiness in the same way we can understand chemical reactions makes little sense to me though, and it seems almost obtuse to not want to notice the methodological difficulties that come with studying happiness that make it a fundamentally different proposition to studying the reaction of potassium and hydrochloric acid.

Happiness doesn't exist, although it describes something real. It is a combination of the presence of some things and the absence of others combined with a whole host of subjective evaluations and predictions. It can only be accessed via a series of linguistic concepts and assumptions.

If someone takes an ecstasy pill they will become euphoric, is this the same as becoming temporarily very, very happy or is it something different? How would we balance the happiness from the drug with unhappiness caused by coming down off the drug or mental and physical side effects? What amount of happiness is worth a period of severe unhappiness? Is it better to be slightly happy all of the time, or experience a range of emotions?

While we can recognise and better understand some neurological processes that correlate to happiness, happiness cannot be reduced to observing neurological processes via fMRI or equivalent.

Now let's expand to the question of societal happiness, and ask "Which ethical system produces the greatest amount of happiness?", an exponentially more complex question. Even if falls in the remit of "The Activity", it still makes sense to see it as a fundamentally different thing to studying the reaction of potassium and hydrochloric acid which naturally and objectively exists independently of human conceptualisation, classification and observation.

There are multiple layers of complex and insoluble subjectivity in one but not the other and this makes a massive difference.

This is what makes this whole notion of ‘scientism’ ridiculous. By pushing back on the incursion of The Activity into understanding human behavior, it only serves to give free reign to activities that lack robust self-evaluation or any form of measurable success rate.

What is left in the vacuum when you push science (The Activity) out of the social sciences?

Again, and I don't know how to make this any clearer, no one is proposing "pushing science out of the social sciences" whatever that is supposed to mean. This is simply something you have incorrectly inferred due to the magical power of the word scientism to conjure up all kinds of nefarious connotations even when none exist.
 
Here is an example of the kind of hard demarcation limiting the scope of The Activity that I tend to see related to the term 'scientism':

"Scientism, the illicit extension of the methods and categories of science beyond their legitimate domain, is one such form, and the conception of the unity of the sciences and the methodological homogeneity of the natural sciences and of humanistic studies one such myth. One task of philosophy is to defend us against such illusions of reason."Hacker, P.M.S (2001)https://www.pmshacker.co.uk/_files/ugd/ff19f1_da4914848cc544be92bc74bb16d9693b.pdf

Can I ask what you actually disagree with in that definition? Do you consider the historian and the physicist to be using comparable methodologies and that history can be studied in the same manner as the natural sciences?

How for example, would you propose that science answers the questions proposed in sections 5 and 6 relating to Wittgenstein's philosophy of language?

For example:

The limits of thought and knowledge, Wittgenstein argued, are the limits of the possible expression of thought and knowledge. It only makes sense to ascribe to a creature such knowledge, memory, thought or belief as it can in principle express in its behaviour. For it is the behaviour of a creature that constitutes the criteria for such ascriptions. Hence the horizon of possible cognitive achievements of a creature is determined by the limits of its behavioural repertoire...

The possession of a language therefore enlarges the intellect, makes it possible to think not only that things here and now are thus and so, but also that things — of an indefinite variety — are severally thus and so at indefinitely many other times and places. It is the availability of devices of generalisation that makes it intelligible to ascribe to a creature knowledge, belief or conjecture of a universal kind. It is mastery of the use of general concept words, of count nouns, concrete mass nouns, and numerals, that renders accessible to a creature thought which goes beyond mere recognition, and knowledge, as opposed to mere recognition, of number and quantity. And it is the availability, in one’s linguistic repertoire, of logical devices signifying negation, conjunction, implication and disjunction, that makes possible reasoning, and hence renders intelligible ascription of reasoning, that goes beyond the most rudimentary...

[Non-human] animals have wants and act in the pursuit of the objects of their desires. But the horizon of their desires is as limited as the horizon of their cognitive powers. A dog can want to go for a walk now, but it cannot now want to go for a walk tomorrow or next Sunday; it can want a bone now, but not now want a bone for Christmas. Animals have purposes, pursue goals, and choose among different possible ways of achieving their goals. But the trajectory of their will reaches no further than their behavioural repertoire can express, and the objects of their will are constrained by their limited preconceptual recognitional capacities.


How would you classify this information? Is it knowledge? Is it part of The Activity?

Also, you may be confusing the "can not" with the "should not" again. He is arguing that there are certain parts of this issue that are not empirical in nature.

He is not advocating a “hard demarcation” he advocates working alongside the sciences to establish where things move from the scientific into the philosophical. He is advocating the use of rational scepticism when evaluating the methods of enquiry being used and the concepts they rely on. Whether he is right or wrong in his conclusions, they are certainly open to scrutiny and challenge.

This seems like your concept of The Activity to me. Whether you demarcate philosophy from science or empirical from non-empirical makes little difference, it's just substituting one linguistic sign for another.

It’s a bit like saying mathematics is not empirical and thus is outside of the remit of science, or saying maths is a non-empirical aspect of The Activity. Functionally they are pointing at the same thing.

Instead of scientism we could talk about people who overestimate the scope for questions to be answered empirically, and overestimate the accuracy of findings in certain areas of The Activity such as those that used to be called the social sciences

We could call them mollywoppers and the phenomenon mollywopping if you prefer, but the referent is still the same thing as it is for the term scientism. It's like changing from tree to arbre to baum. The sign changes, the referent remains the same.

So instead of science and scientism, we can have The Activity and mollywopping.
 

Madsaac

Active Member
Is it a philosophical discussion or is it a political discussion? When speaking of what we do with what we learn, that would be about exercising subjective personal preferences, yes? Perhaps philosophy should simply be seen as political rhetoric?

Maybe both, a political discussion is part persuasion and contains rhetoric. I think Aristotle believed that persuasion (rhetoric) is in opposition to philosophy.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member

Who here believes in "Scientism"?


Is it more related to Science or to Religion or to none, please, right?

Regards
__________________
"The term scientism was popularized by F. A. Hayek, who defined it in 1942 as the "slavish imitation of the method and language of Science".[33]" Wikipedia
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member

Who here believes in "Scientism"?


Is it more related to Science or to Religion or to none, please, right?

Regards
__________________
"The term scientism was popularized by F. A. Hayek, who defined it in 1942 as the "slavish imitation of the method and language of Science".[33]" Wikipedia
Scientism is name calling insult to science, which in reality does not exists as far as science is concerned, and how science is considered in the overwhelming majority of scientists and every major academic university of the world.

Despite all the acrid cynical ranting, abuse and gnashing of teeth there is no significant evidence of Scientism. It is often an abusive generalization accusation of atheists, which has nothing to do with science. It is more related to paranoid religious beliefs of those that in some way reject science.

I extremely doubt any scientists will believe in scientism.

 
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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member

Who here believes in "Scientism"? Is it more related to Science or to Religion or to none, please, right?

I've only seen the term used by theists, and always as a criticism of those who say or imply that empiricism is the only path to knowledge about the world. I'd call that a belief, not believing in something. I have been accused of scientism, and it's true that that is my position. That shouldn't make anybody angry, but it does.

What they say is that we are overly reliant on empiricism, as if that were possible. One should always evaluate all evidence and act on whatever conclusions he can soundly draw from it. One simply cannot do this too much, just too little.

But what they really mean is that they want respect for their other, non-empirical ways of knowing, and are offended to have their beliefs rejected for lack of sufficient supporting evidence. So the complaint is not actually that one is relying on empiricism too much but rather that one doesn't respect faith and intuition enough.
 
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mikkel_the_dane

My own religion

Who here believes in "Scientism"?


Is it more related to Science or to Religion or to none, please, right?

Regards
__________________
"The term scientism was popularized by F. A. Hayek, who defined it in 1942 as the "slavish imitation of the method and language of Science".[33]" Wikipedia

Well, in effect it is more related to philosophy. So you left out the correct option.
So in this case wrong and not right.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I've only seen the term used by theists, and always as a criticism of those who say or imply that empiricism is the only path to knowledge about the world. I'd call that a belief, not believing in something. I have been accused of scientism, and it's true that that is my position, but that shouldn't make anybody angry, but it does.

What they say is that we are overly reliant on empiricism, as if that were possible. One should always evaluate all evidence and act on whatever conclusions he can soundly draw from it. One simply cannot do this too much, just too little.

But what they really mean is that they want respect for their other, non-empirical ways of knowing, and are offended to have their beliefs rejected for lack of sufficient supporting evidence. So the complaint is not actually that one is relying on empiricism too much but rather that one doesn't respect faith and intuition enough.

Well, I have used it and I am not a theist. Here is the defintion I prefer:
an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)

And we do get at least one here who has such a trust.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Well, I have used it and I am not a theist. Here is the defintion I prefer:
an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)

And we do get at least one here who has such a trust.
Though, you not being a Theist does not make the accusation of 'Scientism' in of itself any less of an 'exaggerated' insult of science.

The problem with the definition is the subjective "exaggerated trust," which is too vague a measure of what is meaningful concerning what is "Trust in science."

Please provide something more specific concerning "What is exaggerated Trust," In my 50+ years as a scientist I see scientists believing universally in Trusting science as understanding the physical nature of our physical existence.

The Social Sciences are a different subject, and by definition social scientist realize the objective limitations of their work. In understanding science it helps to understand the differences and not make mindess accusations of "Scientism,"

In reality the accusation of "Scientism" is a strawman.
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
The problem I see with the whole scientism thing, is just vague generalisations by science-illiterate and anti-science people, is equating science with atheism.

Atheism is just the opposite philosophy to theism, nothing more, nothing less. It is simply the opposite to the theist’s belief in the existence of god: atheist is just a person either don’t in god, or atheist is one who lack belief in the existence of god.

There are no science in atheism, and science isn’t required to being an atheist.

Of course, there are some atheists who are anti-religion, but not all atheists feel the same ways. The majority of atheists believe that theists have every rights to believe and follow whatever religions they desire, whether that religion be monotheistic or polytheistic, or some other exotic forms of theism. The majority of atheists don’t want to get rid of people’s religion, as that would be denying people, their freedom to choose to what to believe.

Anyway, there are some science-illiterates who use this scientism as a way to ridicule others for not conforming to their social norms. Most of them who used this scientism card, happened to be mostly creationists - whether it be Young Earth Creation creationists or Intelligent Design creationists. But clearly science illiteracy & xenophobia isn’t restricted to creationist group, because one happened to be atheist: @mikkel_the_dane .

mikkel_the_dane is one of those against Natural Sciences. But he can believe whatever he wants to believe. Except for one problem: I have told him, quite clearly, I am agnostic, not atheist…but he refused to acknowledge that, still calling me atheist.

I have no problems with atheists and with theists, with people being whom they are, as I believe each have the right to choose his or her path. But for mikkel to deny my rights of being agnostic, is inexcusable.

His words were “I don’t care” what anyone believes, but himself.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Well, I have used it and I am not a theist. Here is the defintion I prefer:
an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)
Exaggerated trust is not a scientific thing. But yes, science can be applied to philosophy, social sciences and humanities.
Actually, scienticism is like faith for theists which they try to apply to atheists, but it does not stick, except in case of people who do not know science.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
The problem I see with the whole scientism thing, is just vague generalisations by science-illiterate and anti-science people, is equating science with atheism.

Atheism is just the opposite philosophy to theism, nothing more, nothing less. It is simply the opposite to the theist’s belief in the existence of god: atheist is just a person either don’t in god, or atheist is one who lack belief in the existence of god.

There are no science in atheism, and science isn’t required to being an atheist.

Of course, there are some atheists who are anti-religion, but not all atheists feel the same ways. The majority of atheists believe that theists have every rights to believe and follow whatever religions they desire, whether that religion be monotheistic or polytheistic, or some other exotic forms of theism. The majority of atheists don’t want to get rid of people’s religion, as that would be denying people, their freedom to choose to what to believe.

Anyway, there are some science-illiterates who use this scientism as a way to ridicule others for not conforming to their social norms. Most of them who used this scientism card, happened to be mostly creationists - whether it be Young Earth Creation creationists or Intelligent Design creationists. But clearly science illiteracy & xenophobia isn’t restricted to creationist group, because one happened to be atheist: @mikkel_the_dane .

mikkel_the_dane is one of those against Natural Sciences. But he can believe whatever he wants to believe. Except for one problem: I have told him, quite clearly, I am agnostic, not atheist…but he refused to acknowledge that, still calling me atheist.

I have no problems with atheists and with theists, with people being whom they are, as I believe each have the right to choose his or her path. But for mikkel to deny my rights of being agnostic, is inexcusable.

His words were “I don’t care” what anyone believes, but himself.

First off, an appology to you. I am sorry that I called you an atheist.

And now I will live up to your understanding of me.
As for finding our individual parts, I don't agree with that. Sicence will tell you what is the best thing to do.

So I wonder, if you can understand how powerful I am. E.g. this defintion of sceintism, is by me:
"an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)"
I can find other entries on the Internet and they are all about me, written by and in general I control the Internet:
E.g. if we go deep on the concept of truth, this is by me:

So you will never find anyone who claim that science is just natural science and there is only one methodlogy in sceince and that science is in effect this: Science and the scientific method are the best or only way to render truth about the world and reality.
There are nobody that holds this view. We haven't had posters here, who claimed that. And in effect the joke is that the bold one is part of this:
"Scientism is the view that science and the scientific method are the best or only way to render truth about the world and reality."
In fact the quotes used to give this explanation of what scientism is, is me:
"Hietanen, Johan; Turunen, Petri; Hirvonen, Ilmari; et al. (July 2020). "How not to criticise scientism". Metaphilosophy. 51 (4): 522–547. doi:10.1111/meta.12443"

Now, yes, we are different as humans and some do understand the limits of science, some don't understand sceince as such and some overdo what science can do.

So , sorry, that I claimed something about you, which is not true.
But remeber I am everywhere on the Internet.
And this is also by me;
"Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds."

Atheism invloves .... a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method.
That is scientism but remember it is not written by anybody but me and it is not this org: Home

So you in effect claim something which is not true of atheism for all atheists and you then build a strawman about who describes what scientism is and don't understand that you can actually find it, as I showed above.

So if it really makes you better. I am the Internet and it is all about me. When you open it and try to find something, is controlled by me. It is all fake.
Yeah, again sorry for claiming you are an atheist. But not sorry for the part about atheism and sceintism.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Exaggerated trust is not a scientific thing. But yes, science can be applied to philosophy, social sciences and humanities.
Actually, scienticism is like faith for theists which they try to apply to atheists, but it does not stick, except in case of people who do not know science.

What is science to you?

See above for some atheist, who do scientism.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
What is science to you?
See above for some atheist, who do scientism.
The only tool now which can increase our knowledge. We have already done philosophy to the extent it can help us.
If some atheists indulge in scientism, I would suggest them to stick to science and not step beyond it.
However, what others believe is of no consequence to me.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
The only tool now which can increase our knowledge. We have already done philosophy to the extent it can help us.
If some atheists indulge in scientism, I would suggest them to stick to science and not step beyond it.
However, what others believe is of no consequence to me.

@gnostic

Well, that could be scientism as per this version of it:
Scientism is the view that science and the scientific method are the best or only way to render truth about the world and reality.

Or this version:
an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
First off, an appology to you. I am sorry that I called you an atheist.

And now I will live up to your understanding of me.
As for finding our individual parts, I don't agree with that. Sicence will tell you what is the best thing to do.

So I wonder, if you can understand how powerful I am. E.g. this defintion of sceintism, is by me:
"an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)"
I can find other entries on the Internet and they are all about me, written by and in general I control the Internet:
E.g. if we go deep on the concept of truth, this is by me:

So you will never find anyone who claim that science is just natural science and there is only one methodlogy in sceince and that science is in effect this: Science and the scientific method are the best or only way to render truth about the world and reality.
There are nobody that holds this view. We haven't had posters here, who claimed that. And in effect the joke is that the bold one is part of this:
"Scientism is the view that science and the scientific method are the best or only way to render truth about the world and reality."
In fact the quotes used to give this explanation of what scientism is, is me:
"Hietanen, Johan; Turunen, Petri; Hirvonen, Ilmari; et al. (July 2020). "How not to criticise scientism". Metaphilosophy. 51 (4): 522–547. doi:10.1111/meta.12443"

Now, yes, we are different as humans and some do understand the limits of science, some don't understand sceince as such and some overdo what science can do.

So , sorry, that I claimed something about you, which is not true.
But remeber I am everywhere on the Internet.
And this is also by me;
"Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds."

Atheism invloves .... a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method.
That is scientism but remember it is not written by anybody but me and it is not this org: Home

So you in effect claim something which is not true of atheism for all atheists and you then build a strawman about who describes what scientism is and don't understand that you can actually find it, as I showed above.

So if it really makes you better. I am the Internet and it is all about me. When you open it and try to find something, is controlled by me. It is all fake.
Yeah, again sorry for claiming you are an atheist. But not sorry for the part about atheism and sceintism.
Science and the scientific method are the best or only way to render truth about the world and reality.

Take out "render truth" and it Is not an "exaggerated trust" in science." Science does not "render truth."

Of course Social Sciences do not make the claims that their science can meet the standards of Methodological Naturalism. and does not believe in "rendered truth."
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Example of 2 different versions of science.
In summary Logical Positivism is dead. Is there any reason to pursue this further.

Decline and legacy​

By the late 1960s, logical positivism had become exhausted.[51] In 1976, A. J. Ayer quipped that "the most important" defect of logical positivism "was that nearly all of it was false", though he maintained "it was true in spirit."[52][53] Although logical positivism tends to be recalled as a pillar of scientism,[54] Carl Hempel was key in establishing the philosophy subdiscipline philosophy of science[17] where Thomas Kuhn and Karl Popper brought in the era of postpositivism.[49] John Passmore found logical positivism to be "dead, or as dead as a philosophical movement ever becomes".[52]
Popper's philosophy is the foundation of Methodological Naturalism.

Methodological Naturalism does not "render truth."
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
In summary Logical Positivism is dead. Is there any reason to pursue this further.

Decline and legacy​

By the late 1960s, logical positivism had become exhausted.[51] In 1976, A. J. Ayer quipped that "the most important" defect of logical positivism "was that nearly all of it was false", though he maintained "it was true in spirit."[52][53] Although logical positivism tends to be recalled as a pillar of scientism,[54] Carl Hempel was key in establishing the philosophy subdiscipline philosophy of science[17] where Thomas Kuhn and Karl Popper brought in the era of postpositivism.[49] John Passmore found logical positivism to be "dead, or as dead as a philosophical movement ever becomes".[52]

Popper's philosophy is the foundation of Methodological Naturalism.

Methodological Naturalism does not "render truth."

Yeah, but you see we are not in the modern are anymore, we are in the post-modern, so you live in the past among dead people like Popper. And since you use philosophy, if I recall right, what science is, has even moved for the dead old philosophy of science of Popper.
Science changes one funeral at a time.
So just as Kant is dead, so is Popper thus by your standard of philosophy being irrelevant if it is too old. (A totatly relativistic notion and not science)
So your philosophy of sceince is irrelvant because it is to oll and so is mine.

This is so much fun. So we are both old and time is passing us by. I use old outdated Greek philosophy and you use old outdated modern philosophy. :D
Do you feel better now, that I admit we are both outdated and neither of us are special. ;)
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Yeah, but you see we are not in the modern are anymore, we are in the post-modern, so you live in the past among dead people like Popper. And since you use philosophy, if I recall right, what science is, has even moved for the dead old philosophy of science of Popper.
Science changes one funeral at a time.
So just as Kant is dead, so is Popper thus by your standard of philosophy bying irrelevant if it is too old. (A totatly relativistic notion and not science)
So your philosophy of sceince is irrelvant because it is to oll and so is mine.

This is so much fun. So we areboth old and time is passing us by. I use old outdated Greek philosophy and you use old outdated modern philosophy. :D
Do you feel better now, that I admit we are both outdated and neither of us are special. ;)
This does not make sense. I will have to give it some thought before I respond.
 
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