Who is more criminally dangerous: the theist or the atheist?

[night912]

Prove it.




Where's your evidence?

He was baptized by LDS, making him a Christian, believing in the same god as you, Jehovah.

 

[Milton Platt]

And Abiogenesis is false.

Support your assertion

 

[Milton Platt]

Which is why the GTOE is false.

Support your assertion with facts

 

[Milton Platt]

Can you please answer in Yes or No?

"Were you aware that the cited papers in the OP were saying ‘criminality and religiosity are negatively related’?”

I asked because in your first post you wrote as below:


...

Inversely related, yes. The chart, if I am reading it right, indicates that non believers and very religious are both on the lower end, while the "weekend Christians" if you will, are on the high end of the crime spectrum. I was not saying otherwise, I was commenting on the fact that I question that it may not be the religiosity or lack thereof itself that is the cause, but rather both crime and religiosity are influenced by other things which cause the correlation. Future studies may shed light on what is influencing both religiosity and criminality

 

[Maximilian]

He was baptized by LDS, making him a Christian, believing in the same god as you, Jehovah.

It seems you would like me to accept that those whose actions are diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings are Christian. How am I supposed to do that?

 

[Maximilian]

Support your assertion

It has been proven conclusively false by hundreds of research studies such as the 1668 experiment by Italian physician Francesco Redi (1626–1697) or Pasteur's experiments.

 

[Maximilian]

Support your assertion with facts

As many, many reputed scientists in many, many different fields have confirmed through evidence, gradualism is a canard. That it has no support in the fossil record is the fundamental reason why they had to invent PE (a really, really bad euphemism for special creation by God Almighty). It’s all merely apophenia inbred with confirmation bias.


Without gradualism the GTOE is as viable as a flying invisible pink unicorn ...

 

[Katzpur]

It seems you would like me to accept that those whose actions are diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings are Christian. How am I supposed to do that?

Typical JW response -- i.e. if you don't accept the Jehovah's Witnesses understanding of the Bible, you're not a "real Christian."

 

[night912]

It seems you would like me to accept that those whose actions are diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings are Christian. How am I supposed to do that?

Nope. I'm just showing the facts. It doesn't matter if you accept it or not, fact is fact.

Just showing that you failed at your attempt to make it look like atheism is the reason for serial rapists and/or murderers.

And using the "no true Scotsman" fallacy doesn't do anything to help your argument.

 

[Maximilian]

Typical JW response -- i.e. if you don't accept the Jehovah's Witnesses understanding of the Bible, you're not a "real Christian."

I see what you're saying because Christ instructed his disciples to slaughter one another in wars, as the LDS have done, rather than displaying intense love for one another . . . oh . . . wait . . .

 

[Maximilian]

Nope. I'm just showing the facts. It doesn't matter if you accept it or not, fact is fact.

Just showing that you failed at your attempt to make it look like atheism is the reason for serial rapists and/or murderers.

And using the "no true Scotsman" fallacy doesn't do anything to help your argument.

And the fact remains that, with the code of conduct he supplied his loyal ones, Christ drew a bright line and then announced that absolutely everyone on the other side is not a Christian.

So wholly devoted to this code would these be that all non-Christian world-views/conduct would be effortlessly recognized. (Malachi 3:18 cf. Titus 1:16)

These preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words.

Meaning that, just as we are able to distinguish genuine legal tender apart from Monopoly money, any sincere person can make a distinction between a Christian and an Anti-Christian (Satanist).

 

[Skreeper]

I see what you're saying because Christ instructed his disciples to slaughter one another in wars, as the LDS have done, rather than displaying intense love for one another . . . oh . . . wait . . .

Brainwashing your members and disowning family members who stop being JW is hardly a display of intense love even if your wise elders told you so.

 

[night912]

And the fact remains that, with the code of conduct he supplied his loyal ones, Christ drew a bright line and then announced that absolutely everyone on the other side is not a Christian.

So wholly devoted to this code would these be that all non-Christian world-views/conduct would be effortlessly recognized. (Malachi 3:18 cf. Titus 1:16)

These preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words.

Meaning that, just as we are able to distinguish genuine legal tender apart from Monopoly money, any sincere person can make a distinction between a Christian and an Anti-Christian (Satanist).

What makes you think i care about the scriptures. Tell that to all the ones in here who calls themselves Christians that don't follow JW teachings. Tell them that they're not true Christians. They're the ones would care .

I'm showing the fact that you failed at your attempt to make atheism look as it endorsed immoral acts.

BTW, why are you quoting scripture now instead of your favorite philosopher serial killer Ted Bundy? Is it because you learned that he isn't an atheist like you once believed?

 

[Maximilian]

What makes you think i care about the scriptures.

It would seem you desire to make convincing arguments on the impact Christians have on the world at large.

If this is in fact the case, why wouldn't you want to work from a precise definition of exactly what makes someone a Christian?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So, let me get this straight... half way between atheist and believer is a believer?

You either believe a claim or you don't.
I don't see how you can be a half and half...

When someone asks you "do you believe X?", there are only 2 responses possible: yes, or anything else.

Only "yes" makes you a believer.

 

[Road Warrior]

Figures are hard to get but every few years someone puts in a freedom of information request and publishes the religious affiliation of prisoners
I find it interesting that around 3% of US citizens are atheist and around 0.1% of US prisoners identify as atheist/agnostic
While around 75% of the population say they are christian and over 81% of prisoners say they are christian.
The remaining 18.9% are of verious other religions or non-affiliated

What percentage of those prisoners got religion after being sentenced? Isn't that the real story here? What were their beliefs when they committed the crimes that sent them to prison?

FWIW, I think this is a BS argument. It's akin to studies showing there is a statistical difference in IQ between blacks and whites. While that is what the data says, there are a lot of problems with measuring IQ exactly in all people. Likewise, while there may be a statistical difference between atheists and theists committing criminal acts, it's mainly a self-serving argument for atheists to hammer theists and theists to hammer atheists. Your prison example is one that could be turned on atheists since it can be shown that prisoners who "find God" in prison are less likely to return to crime. If a person "found God" in prison, then it makes sense they weren't a theist, or a very strong one, before prison.

How faith can curb recidivism
Prison Fellowship is now the nation’s largest Christian nonprofit serving prisoners, former prisoners, and their families. Some of its most impressive results have come from its Academy model, originally known as the InnerChange Freedom Initiative. First established in Texas, the long-term, intensive, faith-based program holistically addresses the roots of criminal behavior. According to an academic study by Dr. Byron Johnson of Baylor University, prisoners who completed all phases of the program were 50 percent less likely than their peers to be arrested again after release, and 60 percent less likely to be re-incarcerated.


Here's an Easter Egg for you, Christine: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
Do you understand what is being stated in the study?

 

[ChristineM]

What percentage of those prisoners got religion after being sentenced? Isn't that the real story here? What were their beliefs when they committed the crimes that sent them to prison?

FWIW, I think this is a BS argument. It's akin to studies showing there is a statistical difference in IQ between blacks and whites. While that is what the data says, there are a lot of problems with measuring IQ exactly in all people. Likewise, while there may be a statistical difference between atheists and theists committing criminal acts, it's mainly a self-serving argument for atheists to hammer theists and theists to hammer atheists. Your prison example is one that could be turned on atheists since it can be shown that prisoners who "find God" in prison are less likely to return to crime. If a person "found God" in prison, then it makes sense they weren't a theist, or a very strong one, before prison.

How faith can curb recidivism
Prison Fellowship is now the nation’s largest Christian nonprofit serving prisoners, former prisoners, and their families. Some of its most impressive results have come from its Academy model, originally known as the InnerChange Freedom Initiative. First established in Texas, the long-term, intensive, faith-based program holistically addresses the roots of criminal behavior. According to an academic study by Dr. Byron Johnson of Baylor University, prisoners who completed all phases of the program were 50 percent less likely than their peers to be arrested again after release, and 60 percent less likely to be re-incarcerated.


Here's an Easter Egg for you, Christine: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
Do you understand what is being stated in the study?

No .the real story is what the report and statistics tell us. If you want to make another story then feel free to put in a freedom of information request.

My understanding is those those (religious) committing crimes do so with the understanding god will protect them or god wants then to take that object(s) because as a religious person they deserve it more... Etc

Whatever you think of it is your opinion and you are welcome to that opinion but there is no need to introduce strawmen

Nope, nor a self serving argument but a factual one that indicates +and there are studies on this) that atheist are more caring ans compassionate to strangers.

So where are your numbers for those who found god in parole hearings... Oops, prison?

Do you gave any statistics for atheist re-offenders to compare with?


Yes i understand what is being said, i am dyslexic, not thick. It is being said that the findings are not conclusive, that the results did not reach statistical significance and it appears to be trying to railroad religion into s secular institution?

 

[Road Warrior]

No .the real story is what the report and statistics tell us. If you want to make another story then feel free to put in a freedom of information request....

Awesome. I did not realize that adding facts to support the OP topic wasn't appreciated by atheists. Have a good day, m'am.

 

[ChristineM]

Awesome. I did not realize that adding facts to support the OP topic wasn't appreciated by atheists. Have a good day, m'am.

What facts, read what you linked to... Here let me help you

Abstract
Objective:
Research on the relationship between religion and criminal recidivism has produced encouraging but ultimately inconclusive findings. This study offers a new direction for studying the role of religious support in reentry, providing a longitudinal analysis of the effect of change in religious support on both crime and noncrime outcomes postrelease.

Methods:
Employing mixed-effects longitudinal analyses, this study uses data from the Serious and Violent Offender Reentry Initiative to examine the impact of religious support on postrelease substance use, criminal recidivism, and employment.

Results:
Religious support had strong and robust prosocial effects on both postrelease employment and substance use. The relationship between religious support and recidivism, however, did not reach statistical significance when we added social support to the research model.

Conclusion:
Religious support and meaning making seems to help people address their criminogenic needs and also seems to be an important responsivity factor that is often overlooked in criminological theory and practice. Religious support must therefore be recognized as an important theoretical and practical variable in current efforts to develop successful reentry pathways.​

So i am assuming that when you read it you used copious quantities of confirmation bias.


I am also assuming you cannot provide evidence of the rate of atheist re-offenders.

See where attempted sarcasm gets you?

 

[night912]

It would seem you desire to make convincing arguments on the impact Christians have on the world at large.

If this is in fact the case, why wouldn't you want to work from a precise definition of exactly what makes someone a Christian?

Nice attempt at trying to shift the burden of proof. So all I'll ask you is, Was Ted Bundy an atheist like you claimed he was?