Who is the one who must "prove"

[mikkel_the_dane]

So what led you do those beliefs if you have no evidence or proof?

That there is no evidence or proof in the strong sense. I then accepted that my beliefs are my beliefs because they subjectively make sense to me. I.e. they subjectively work for me.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If we weren't sure that the Quran was from God, would we be able to rely on it?

If we weren't sure whether God commanded his followers to pray, would we be required to do it?

I can only speak for my self, and i found truth in the Qur'an and in prayer

 

[ChristineM]

Personally Allah is the God who are creator according to islam.
If other people want to follow or believe in other Gods, that is up to them, not to me
They do not need to prove to me that their belief is right for them.

And there you go, there are over 3800 other creator gods. You are asking who provides the proof these other gods exist or not. Claiming allah done it is not proof

 

[Spirit of Light]

And there you go, there are over 3800 other creator gods. You are asking who provides the proof these other gods exist or not. Claiming allah done it is not proof

I have not sais Allah created other Gods
I said Allah created physical world as you and i live in now,

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well that would still require producing the teapot. ;0]

I can easily prove there is no teapot if there is actually nothing there. That is hard science, not philosophy.

Philosophy is assuming there could be a tea pot so it must therefore be there somewhere. . If we keep looking hard enough.....keep looking... searchin.. .

Actually there is a philosophical belief, that requires some form of realism and/or materialism or what not. That is what is without proof or evidence.
Start by solving epistemological solipsism and what objective reality is in itself and I will listen to you.

 

[Polymath257]

So prove that there is such a thing as existence.

First define what you mean by the term 'existence'. Alternatively, define what it means for a thing to 'exist'.

I think we can agree, for example, that the moon exists and that Sherlock Holmes does not. At the very least, we can hope to give a definition that distinguishes what is relevant between those two examples.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

First define what you mean by the term 'existence'. Alternatively, define what it means for a thing to 'exist'.

I think we can agree, for example, that the moon exists and that Sherlock Holmes does not. At the very least, we can hope to give a definition that distinguishes what is relevant between those two examples.

No, you use it in a positive sense. Now prove it and just don't give a definition. Definitions are not proof.

 

[Polymath257]

Actually there is a philosophical belief, that requires some form of realism and/or materialism or what not. That is what is without proof or evidence.
Start by solving epistemological solipsism and what objective reality is in itself and I will listen to you.

It can also be what is meant by the term 'existence'. If you look in a way that would be expected to produce evidence of something and that evidence does not appear, you are justified in claiming the non-existence.

This is, for example, how the luminous ether was demonstrated to not exist: its properties were well enough defined that we knew what to look for and when. Then, the fact that expected evidence did not appear was the basis for showing the ether does not exist (as was then defined).

 

[Polymath257]

No, you use it in a positive sense. Now prove it and just don't give a definition. Definitions are not proof.

Definitions come *before* proof. You can only prove once you have either definitions or undefined concepts and their assumed relations.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I can only speak for my self, and i found truth in the Qur'an and in prayer

What does "I found truth" mean? That you found it convincing for yourself?

 

[Spirit of Light]

What does "I found truth" mean? That you found it convincing for yourself?

That it opened my deeper understand of religioues practice, what is needed to do to gain even deeper wisdom about Islam and its teaching.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It can also be what is meant by the term 'existence'. If you look in a way that would be expected to produce evidence of something and that evidence does not appear, you are justified in claiming the non-existence.

This is, for example, how the luminous ether was demonstrated to not exist: its properties were well enough defined that we knew what to look for and when. Then, the fact that expected evidence did not appear was the basis for showing the ether does not exist (as was then defined).

Yeah, but I don't use evidence or existence like you or indeed truth. I just state what seems to make sense for me and I accept epistemological solipsism and strong skepticism.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Definitions come *before* proof. You can only prove once you have either definitions or undefined concepts and their assumed relations.

Correct, it is all cognitive and in your mind, what reality really is.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have not demanded anything, the questi9n in the OP was realated to why non believers demand a proof from believers but csn not them self disprove God.

I believe Allah exist, its a personal belief i hold, but can you disprove my belief?

We can't disprove belief, only facts. Since there are no facts believers can or want to present, the disbeliever has no data to back up what he says. He can only make the conclusion something does not exist until there is factual data (not beliefs) that he can use to conclude otherwise.

Is there facts that support your belief?

Intuition, emotions, faith, etc aren't criteria both parties can use to determine who is correct. The question doesn't make sense until you can give something concrete.

The question sounds like you're asking for us to prove your belief false not the nature of the existence of god.

 

[Spirit of Light]

We can't disprove belief, only facts. Since there are no facts believers can or want to present, the disbeliever has no data to back up what he says. He can only make the conclusion something does not exist until there is factual data (not beliefs) that he can use to conclude otherwise.

Is there facts that support your belief?

Intuition, emotions, faith, etc aren't criteria both parties can use to determine who is correct. The question doesn't make sense until you can give something concrete.

The question sounds like you're asking for us to prove your belief false not the nature of the existence of god.

I would say the universe and earth should be evidence enough that God exist, i can not in my wildest dreams understand how something so complicated as the universe can just create it self from nothing at all, to me it has to be something higher being who started it.

That is only my belief. What others believe is up to them.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We can't disprove belief, only facts. Since there are no facts believers can or want to present, the disbeliever has no data to back up what he says. He can only make the conclusion something does not exist until there is factual data (not beliefs) that he can use to conclude otherwise.

Is there facts that support your belief?

Intuition, emotions, faith, etc aren't criteria both parties can use to determine who is correct. The question doesn't make sense until you can give something concrete.

The question sounds like you're asking for us to prove your belief false not the nature of the existence of god.

That is cognitive and in your mind. You still have to show that it applies to the really real objective reality in itself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That it opened my deeper understand of religioues practice, what is needed to do to gain even deeper wisdom about Islam and its teaching.

I don't know what you mean by this.

In any case, my point is that any religion has many beliefs and claims, and it's often (generally?) the case that if some of those claims aren't established as true, then other beliefs are necessarily false.

 

[ChristineM]

I have not sais Allah created other Gods
I said Allah created physical world as you and i live in now,

But you are asking who provides the proof. That allah or any other god created anything. It is not for you to provide proof that any of the other claimed gods did it. You would expect them to prove their own claims.

My point is the one making the claim should provide proof.

Now because you have just claimed

"Allah created physical world as you and i live in now"

I expect you can validate that claim???

 

[Spirit of Light]

I don't know what you mean by this.

In any case, my point is that any religion has many beliefs and claims, and it's often (generally?) the case that if some of those claims aren't established as true, then other beliefs are necessarily false.

I do not speak for other belief anymore for me now, Islam is right for me, that is what i wish to practice.

 

[Spirit of Light]

But you are asking who provides the proof. That allah or any other god created anything. It is not for you to provide proof that any of the other claimed gods did it. You would expect them to prove their own claims.

My point is the one making the claim should provide proof.

Now because you have just claimed

"Allah created physical world as you and i live in now"

I expect you can validate that claim???

It is my personal belief it is how i understand it to be.