Who IS "The Only TRUE God"- as Jesus put it?

[abysslightdarkness]

hi readers
Compliments of the day

As i am saying

i will add on to this post of mine

i suspect there was double changes to the Matt 28:19 because i think there is another version of this verse after the first change i think they change the word dipped or immerse to Baptized later which is not suppose to be there in the version of the hebrew manuscript of Matthew. i think the changes was a very much in connection to Eusebius and Constantine.

Below ,the earliest hebrew script of Matt 28:19 is the first to change the words from ('jesus' to 'the father ,son and spirit') then later they changed from 'dipped' to 'baptized'.

Having said that as i actually looked closer to the Hebrew the words ,Jesus was not even mention on this verse in the first place which show this manuscript was translated from a very early Matthew copy.

however i took a second look at the second Hebrew verse the Hebrew words mentioned the father , son ,spirt but the word "Baptized" is not there.
if you carefully translated the entire both verses you will find that they have nothing to do with trinity Baptism


לכו אתם
ושמרו אותם לקיים כל הדברים אשר ציויתי אתכם עד עולם.


לכן אתם לכו ולמדו כל הגוים
וטבלו אותם בשם האב והבן ורוח הקדש


all in all ,the verse Matt 28:19 have never intended to address the trinitarian formula.

"Matthew 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation, that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history, and its Trinitarian formula (is) foreign to the mouth of Jesus." (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637, Under "Baptism")


"Modern critics claim this formula is falsely ascribed to Jesus and that it represents later (Catholic) church tradition, for nowhere in the book of Acts (or any other book of the Bible) is baptism performed with the name of the Trinity..." (New Revised Standard Version says this about Matthew 28:19)

then later in the greek version with all the changed parts

today version of Matthew 28:19
πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος,

may i stressed that the above verses are in hebrew of the earliest greek text of Matt which is now lost or yet to be discovered. just like the septuagint bible written in greek form translated from the early Hebrew text.Hence ,the LXX preserved many original Hebrew verses ,that was now changed ,through the times.
sometimes you need to work back wards for the more earlier texts ,in case they are not available.
but they are still many references that refers to Gospel of Matthew was actually a renamed from the text 'gospel according to the Hebrews'.


The verses above is taken from the hebrew version of Matt 28:19 this show that the trinity formula of the greek Matt was an later addition. please do some research over the Hebrew words because the trinitarian formula was not there in the first place, its was a later and addition sometime after 325AD
please do use Hebrew dictionary to check the meaning thanks if you don't mind please post it.

Eusebius charged with forging the biblical verses and historical records

Immediately after the council they were many insertions and alterations of the historical and biblical materials.

Then later they forged more verse like *Mt 28:19 , if not ,they are too few "three in One" verses around in the bible. However ,in the papyrus manuscript of Mt 28:19 , it was found to be added by hand much later while under X-ray examination of the papyrus. They also found the whole piece of the papyrus was corrected 18 times.

Much later ,the church confessed

"Let us examine the facts of the case. The silence of the great and voluminous St Augustine, are admitted facts that militate against the canonicity of the Three Witness, St. Jerome does not seem to know the text. the disputed part does not fond in any manuscripts until 12th century. The Council of Trent is the first certain ecumenical decree, whereby the church established the Canon of Scripture. We cannot say that the Decree of Trent necessarily included the Three Witnesses. Neither condition has yet been verified with certainty;quite the contrary, textual criticism seems to indicate that the Comma Johanninum was not at all times and everywhere want to be read in the Catholic Church, and it is not contained in the Old Latin Vulgate." (Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. 8 pg. 436)


"The baptismal Formula was changed from the name of Jesus christ to the words the father ,son, and holy spirit in the second century."
(see catholic encyclopedia Vol. 2 ,page 263 & youtube)

With all these 'drama' of the doctrine of trinity. we can absolutely see that this verse 1 Jhn 5:7-8 & Mt 28:19 is a pure insertion just to create the Trinity doctrine. NOT the WORDS of YHWH either.

Many theologians believed that Eusebius actually rewrote parts of Josephus work almost immediately after the Council of Nicaea. the passage is about the existence of JESUS and his resurrections stories.Eusebius himself personally argued that falsehood was needed for the benefit of the Church.

Origien himself also admitted to have had many insertions to many jewish historical work as well.
Both of the christian Bishops affirmed that Josephus ddi not acknowledge jesus christ at all. a jewish historian who wrote several books during jesus times or at least not long after the death of Jesus.


and the Testimonium Flavianum

Josephus was forced to add informations of Jesus' existence in his Jewish Antiquties.

will elaborate on that later see other readers are able to have any info over the forging materials in the bible passages ?

warmest regards
happy reading

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[ninerbuff]

This one is easy.............the one YOU believe in.

 

[sojourner]

well

if you are still need spoon-feeding ,don't do your own research

you can keep getting FAT(see Lev 3:16) then , 'sojurner schizo' even this sounds so rhythmic.

Once again, it's not up to me to provide your sources.:cover:

 

[sojourner]

hi readers
Compliments of the day

As i am saying

i will add on to this post of mine

i suspect there was double changes to the Matt 28:19 because i think there is another version of this verse after the first change i think they change the word dipped or immerse to Baptized later which is not suppose to be there in the version of the hebrew manuscript of Matthew. i think the changes was a very much in connection to Eusebius and Constantine.

Below ,the earliest hebrew script of Matt 28:19 is the first to change the words from ('jesus' to 'the father ,son and spirit') then later they changed from 'dipped' to 'baptized'.

Having said that as i actually looked closer to the Hebrew the words ,Jesus was not even mention on this verse in the first place which show this manuscript was translated from a very early Matthew copy.

however i took a second look at the second Hebrew verse the Hebrew words mentioned the father , son ,spirt but the word "Baptized" is not there.
if you carefully translated the entire both verses you will find that they have nothing to do with trinity Baptism


לכו אתם
ושמרו אותם לקיים כל הדברים אשר ציויתי אתכם עד עולם.


לכן אתם לכו ולמדו כל הגוים
וטבלו אותם בשם האב והבן ורוח הקדש


all in all ,the verse Matt 28:19 have never intended to address the trinitarian formula.

"Matthew 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation, that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history, and its Trinitarian formula (is) foreign to the mouth of Jesus." (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637, Under "Baptism")


"Modern critics claim this formula is falsely ascribed to Jesus and that it represents later (Catholic) church tradition, for nowhere in the book of Acts (or any other book of the Bible) is baptism performed with the name of the Trinity..." (New Revised Standard Version says this about Matthew 28:19)

then later in the greek version with all the changed parts

today version of Matthew 28:19
πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος,

may i stressed that the above verses are in hebrew of the earliest greek text of Matt which is now lost or yet to be discovered. just like the septuagint bible written in greek form translated from the early Hebrew text.Hence ,the LXX preserved many original Hebrew verses ,that was now changed ,through the times.
sometimes you need to work back wards for the more earlier texts ,in case they are not available.
but they are still many references that refers to Gospel of Matthew was actually a renamed from the text 'gospel according to the Hebrews'.


The verses above is taken from the hebrew version of Matt 28:19 this show that the trinity formula of the greek Matt was an later addition. please do some research over the Hebrew words because the trinitarian formula was not there in the first place, its was a later and addition sometime after 325AD
please do use Hebrew dictionary to check the meaning thanks if you don't mind please post it.

Eusebius charged with forging the biblical verses and historical records

Immediately after the council they were many insertions and alterations of the historical and biblical materials.

Then later they forged more verse like *Mt 28:19 , if not ,they are too few "three in One" verses around in the bible. However ,in the papyrus manuscript of Mt 28:19 , it was found to be added by hand much later while under X-ray examination of the papyrus. They also found the whole piece of the papyrus was corrected 18 times.

Much later ,the church confessed

"Let us examine the facts of the case. The silence of the great and voluminous St Augustine, are admitted facts that militate against the canonicity of the Three Witness, St. Jerome does not seem to know the text. the disputed part does not fond in any manuscripts until 12th century. The Council of Trent is the first certain ecumenical decree, whereby the church established the Canon of Scripture. We cannot say that the Decree of Trent necessarily included the Three Witnesses. Neither condition has yet been verified with certainty;quite the contrary, textual criticism seems to indicate that the Comma Johanninum was not at all times and everywhere want to be read in the Catholic Church, and it is not contained in the Old Latin Vulgate." (Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. 8 pg. 436)


"The baptismal Formula was changed from the name of Jesus christ to the words the father ,son, and holy spirit in the second century."
(see catholic encyclopedia Vol. 2 ,page 263 & youtube)

With all these 'drama' of the doctrine of trinity. we can absolutely see that this verse 1 Jhn 5:7-8 & Mt 28:19 is a pure insertion just to create the Trinity doctrine. NOT the WORDS of YHWH either.

Many theologians believed that Eusebius actually rewrote parts of Josephus work almost immediately after the Council of Nicaea. the passage is about the existence of JESUS and his resurrections stories.Eusebius himself personally argued that falsehood was needed for the benefit of the Church.

Origien himself also admitted to have had many insertions to many jewish historical work as well.
Both of the christian Bishops affirmed that Josephus ddi not acknowledge jesus christ at all. a jewish historian who wrote several books during jesus times or at least not long after the death of Jesus.


and the Testimonium Flavianum

Josephus was forced to add informations of Jesus' existence in his Jewish Antiquties.

will elaborate on that later see other readers are able to have any info over the forging materials in the bible passages ?

warmest regards
happy reading

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/size][/font]

This is very, very odd because, as I said earlier, the gospel was originally written in Greek. There is nothing to suggest that the passage in question was a later addition. Therefore, a later Hebrew translation might have left out the passage in question.

You cite the NRSV as saying: ""Modern critics claim this formula is falsely ascribed to Jesus and that it represents later (Catholic) church tradition, for nowhere in the book of Acts (or any other book of the Bible) is baptism performed with the name of the Trinity..." I'm using the Harper-Collins edition of the NRSV, which has excellent notes. Mine says: "Baptism in the early churches derives from John the Baptist. The Father and ... the Son and ... the Holy Spirit. This explicit trinitarian formula is rare in the NT and probably derives from early worship in the Matthean church; see Didache 7.1." At any rate, the writing style and consistency of the passage are congruent with the rest of the text, so I really don't see any need to question its authenticity.

 

[sojourner]

"Matthew 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation, that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history, and its Trinitarian formula (is) foreign to the mouth of Jesus." (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637, Under "Baptism")

Hmmm. Under section III, nos. 1 & 2, the ISBE says: " 1. Are Matthew 28:18-20 and Mark 16:15-16 Genuine?:
Feine (PER3, XIX, 396 f) and Kattenbusch (Sch-Herz, I, 435 f) argue that the Trinitarian formula in Matthew 28:19 is spurious, and that the text in Mk belongs to a section which was added to this Gospel at a later time. The former claim had first been advanced by Conybeare, but later research by Riggenbach has established the genuineness of the Trinitarian formula in Mt. Feine still maintains his doubts, however, on subjective grounds. As to the concluding section in Mk (Matthew 16:9-20), Jerome is the first to call attention to its omission in most Greek manuscripts to which he had access. But Jerome himself acknowledged Mark 16:14 as genuine. Gregory of Nyssa reports that, while this section is missing in some manuscripts, in the more accurate ones many manuscripts contain it. No doctrinal scruple can arise on account of this section; for it contains nothing that is contrary to the doctrine of Scripture in other places on the same subject; and it has always been treated as genuine by the Christian church. The question is a purely historical one (see Bengel, Apparatus Criticus, 170 f).
2. Was the Trinitarian Formula Used in New Testament Times?:
No record of such use can be discovered in the Acts or the epistles of the apostles. The baptisms recorded in the New Testament after the Day of Pentecost are administered "in the name of Jesus Christ" (Acts 2:38), "into the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts 8:16), "into Christ" (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27). This difficulty was considered by the Fathers; Ambrose says: Quod verbo tacitum fuerat, expressum est fide, "What had not been expressed in word, was expressed by faith." On close inspection the difficulty is found to rest on the assumption that the above are records of baptismal formulas used on those occasions. The fact is that these records contain no baptismal formula at all, but "merely state that such persons were baptized as acknowledged Jesus to be the Lord and the Christ" (Plummer). The same can be said of any person baptized in our day with the Trinitarian formula. That this formula was the established usage in the Christian church is proven by records of baptisms in Justin (Apol., I, 61) and Tertullian (Adv. Prax., XXVI)."


Not so sure I would implicitly trust something that was produced in 1939, as there has been much scholarship done since then.

 

[abysslightdarkness]

Once again, it's not up to me to provide your sources.

who ask ? i didn't ,so you should be better off FATtening yourself...

if you are still need spoon-feeding ,just keep getting FAT(see Lev 3:16) then ,that is what you do Best, opening your mouth and butt is just the career for you
'sojurner schizo' even this sounds so rhythmic still. don't forget your medication if that is of any help ?

Not so sure I would implicitly trust something that was produced in 1939, as there has been much scholarship done since then.

YOUR bible is written for more than 2000 years then why you christians trust the IT so much ? if 1939 is still not old enough for you ? where is the logic here

the temptation verses are still very much threatening the authenticity of the status of YHWH and jesus.


"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

 

[abysslightdarkness]

YHWH can be tempted

DEU 6:16, Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

JOB 2:3, And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

ACT 15:10, Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SEE ALSO: EXO 17:2; MAL 3:15; MAT 4:7]

plus the temptation story of Jesus already shows very explicitly that Jesus is not perfect.
PLease do compare with James 1:13 (Codex Sinacticus)

Jesus is not god

ISA 43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

MAR 6:1, And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him. ... 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

MAR 10:18, And Jesus said unto him,Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

JOH 14:28, Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

JOH 20:17, Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1COR 15:25, For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. ... 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

COL 3:1, If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1TIM 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[SEE ALSO: ISA 45:5; MAT 20:23, 24:36, 27:46; MAR 16:19; LUK 2:52; JOH 5:19, 8:28,40, 16:28; ACT 2:22, 13:23, 17:30-31; ROM 1:3; 2TIM 2:8; HEB 1:1-3, 2:9-18; 1PET 3:21-22, REV 22:16.]

YHWH creates evil

ISA 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil.* I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

JER 18:11, *Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: ....

(SEE ALSO: GEN 3:1; JUDG 9:23; JOB 42:11; JER 18:11; EZE 20:25; AMO 3:6)

YHWH the "Righteous"

NUM 31:17, *Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 *But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

LEV 26:13, I am the LORD your God, ... 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

[SEE ALSO: LEV 26:7-8; NUM 5:1-3; DEU 20:16-17; JOS 10:40; JUDG 14:19; EZE 9:5-7]

Jesus not Omniscient

MAR 13:32, But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

LUK 8:45, And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

JOH 11:33, When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, 34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.


With the verses above ,they show that Jesus and YHWH both aren't fit to become a god even ,let alone in trinity with something like a god. worse still see below

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned. God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn us to hell.

Dearest readers ,armed with all the above mentioned verses please be still and think for a while can they be god ? even if they want to…. absolutely not.

warmest regards
thanks for reading

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

 

[Dirty Penguin]

YHWH can be tempted

DEU 6:16, Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

JOB 2:3, And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

ACT 15:10, Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SEE ALSO: EXO 17:2; MAL 3:15; MAT 4:7]

plus the temptation story of Jesus already shows very explicitly that Jesus is not perfect.
PLease do compare with James 1:13 (Codex Sinacticus)

Jesus is not god

ISA 43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

MAR 6:1, And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him. ... 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

MAR 10:18, And Jesus said unto him,Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

JOH 14:28, Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

JOH 20:17, Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1COR 15:25, For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. ... 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

COL 3:1, If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1TIM 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[SEE ALSO: ISA 45:5; MAT 20:23, 24:36, 27:46; MAR 16:19; LUK 2:52; JOH 5:19, 8:28,40, 16:28; ACT 2:22, 13:23, 17:30-31; ROM 1:3; 2TIM 2:8; HEB 1:1-3, 2:9-18; 1PET 3:21-22, REV 22:16.]

YHWH creates evil

ISA 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil.* I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

JER 18:11, *Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: ....

(SEE ALSO: GEN 3:1; JUDG 9:23; JOB 42:11; JER 18:11; EZE 20:25; AMO 3:6)

YHWH the "Righteous"

NUM 31:17, *Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 *But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

LEV 26:13, I am the LORD your God, ... 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

[SEE ALSO: LEV 26:7-8; NUM 5:1-3; DEU 20:16-17; JOS 10:40; JUDG 14:19; EZE 9:5-7]

Jesus not Omniscient

MAR 13:32, But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

LUK 8:45, And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

JOH 11:33, When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, 34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.


With the verses above ,they show that Jesus and YHWH both aren't fit to become a god even ,let alone in trinity with something like a god. worse still see below

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned. God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn us to hell.

Dearest readers ,armed with all the above mentioned verses please be still and think for a while can they be god ? even if they want to…. absolutely not.

warmest regards
thanks for reading

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/size][/font]

See, I tried this already but those deep rooted in their trinitarian beliefs will never see it as you or I have presented it. I went as far as breaking down the character in Revelation, which is supposedly after the biblical Yeshua ascended, where Yeshua, in one verse, says he has a god about 3 or 4 times.

Also pointing out that "God" was on the throne while his heavenly creation was praising him and he had the seals, which no one was worthy of opening except the Lamb, which enters and is standing in the midst of the crowd...he steps forward and is deemed the only one worthy of opening the seals.... It appears that all the way up the the last book assembled in to a bible... the people of the day believed the biblical Yeshua to be totally separate from "God"....

When a person believes so strongly in a thing it can be very difficult to help them see it another way or even change their mind.

Their biblical Yeshua said:

Matthew 7:21-23

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[sojourner]

who ask ? i didn't ,so you should be better off FATtening yourself...

Of course you didn't ask... you were the one who wrote ... er, plagiarized the material. Note: You accuse the writer of Matthew of the same thing. Interesting. In psychological circles, this is known as projecting. Interesting.

just keep getting FAT(see Lev 3:16)

You keep referencing this passage. I really don't see what significance it has for your claim. It has to do with burnt sacrifice -- a ritual for m of worship. Just goes to show what you know...

opening your mouth and butt is just the career for you

I thought sexual come-ons were verboten by the forum rules, Sweetie. Have a lot of experience with male prostitutes then, do you? ;-P

don't forget your medication if that is of any help ?

You need to have a stand-up routine, preferably with a big nose, floppy shoes and a rainbow wig. I'm thoroughly entertained by the fact that, not only do you claim to be a biblical expert (and yet you don't seem to be able to reference properly) -- now you're claiming to be a medical expert ... or a drug pusher. Therefore, you must be familiar with pharmaceuticals. Yet you seem to think that Viagra pumps up brain tissue. You're thinking with the wrong part of your anatomy. Again: Interesting.

YOUR bible is written for more than 2000 years then why you christians trust the IT so much ?

Let's dissect here, shall we?
1) When was your Bible written?
2) The later documents of the Bible are less than 2000 years old.
3) We trust it for what it is, not for what you want it to be.
4) In the case of the texts, themselves, the older the better. In the case of commentaries and other scholarly work, usually the newer the better.

if 1939 is still not old enough for you ?

Newer references utilize better scholarship, since more evidence has been discovered since 1939. That particular work may not have answers that a newer work may have. If you were a real scholar, you'd know that. Perhaps it's you who need to nurse at the breast of scholarship ... you certainly don't seem equipped to feed yourself...

where is the logic here

Again: projection. I've been asking you that same question throughout this exchange.

the temptation verses are still very much threatening the authenticity of the status of YHWH and jesus.

You wish...

 

[sojourner]

YHWH can be tempted

DEU 6:16, Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

JOB 2:3, And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

ACT 15:10, Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SEE ALSO: EXO 17:2; MAL 3:15; MAT 4:7]

plus the temptation story of Jesus already shows very explicitly that Jesus is not perfect.
PLease do compare with James 1:13 (Codex Sinacticus)

Jesus is not god

ISA 43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

MAR 6:1, And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him. ... 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

MAR 10:18, And Jesus said unto him,Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

JOH 14:28, Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

JOH 20:17, Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1COR 15:25, For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. ... 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

COL 3:1, If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1TIM 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[SEE ALSO: ISA 45:5; MAT 20:23, 24:36, 27:46; MAR 16:19; LUK 2:52; JOH 5:19, 8:28,40, 16:28; ACT 2:22, 13:23, 17:30-31; ROM 1:3; 2TIM 2:8; HEB 1:1-3, 2:9-18; 1PET 3:21-22, REV 22:16.]

YHWH creates evil

ISA 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil.* I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

JER 18:11, *Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: ....

(SEE ALSO: GEN 3:1; JUDG 9:23; JOB 42:11; JER 18:11; EZE 20:25; AMO 3:6)

YHWH the "Righteous"

NUM 31:17, *Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 *But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

LEV 26:13, I am the LORD your God, ... 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

[SEE ALSO: LEV 26:7-8; NUM 5:1-3; DEU 20:16-17; JOS 10:40; JUDG 14:19; EZE 9:5-7]

Jesus not Omniscient

MAR 13:32, But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

LUK 8:45, And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

JOH 11:33, When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, 34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.


With the verses above ,they show that Jesus and YHWH both aren't fit to become a god even ,let alone in trinity with something like a god. worse still see below

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned. God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn us to hell.

Dearest readers ,armed with all the above mentioned verses please be still and think for a while can they be god ? even if they want to…. absolutely not.

warmest regards
thanks for reading

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/size][/font]

[/quote]
**YAWN**
When you come up with a decent argument, let me know. Until then, I'll be doing something more important than sifting through your trash -- like watching cartoons. Perhaps I'll see some of your extended family in one of them...
You keep throwing out the same garbage. Perhaps you should think about switching dog food. Use something that produces less waste material.

 

[abysslightdarkness]

Hey
great yawn more and sleep just go fatten yourself
don't you want the holy spirit seem like your YHWN had the affinity for FATS so i think you should have more those anyway you are FAT already
the thinking that YOUR YHWH love FATS its just horrible and you better be trimmed before you reach Heaven i don't think YHWH likes to see you have too much of his FATS.

i don't have listen to you

same garbage references from your bible ,i thank you yes they are garbage together with you hahahahaha
you have just prove my point

my post are not for you is for the rest of the readers
they are revisions for the readers.just to derive a point later , you ain't seen nothing yet Fatso schizo sojouner wow that is so rthymic should put on rap man

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/SIZE]

 

[abysslightdarkness]

See, I tried this already but those deep rooted in their trinitarian beliefs will never see it as you or I have presented it. I went as far as breaking down the character in Revelation, which is supposedly after the biblical Yeshua ascended, where Yeshua, in one verse, says he has a god about 3 or 4 times.Also pointing out that "God" was on the throne while his heavenly creation was praising him and he had the seals, which no one was worthy of opening except the Lamb, which enters and is standing in the midst of the crowd...he steps forward and is deemed the only one worthy of opening the seals.... It appears that all the way up the the last book assembled in to a bible... the people of the day believed the biblical Yeshua to be totally separate from "God"....

but you see other parts of the bible contradicts that claim there many other verses that implied that jesus is not god. LIKE James 1:13 , you need consistencies in the bible to correspond to the claims of your bible how can you claim anything if your contents can't even be consistence ??? even though they are verses that referring to your YHWH JESUS are gods. they just can't go hand in hand. however ,the revelation was written at least after 200 year if not more ,after the jesus death so….. there must a change in terms of doctrine not necessary that was what really happened in history.

if your beliefs framework arises from a contents that is full of inconsistencies and self contradictions do you call that true (of course ,you can most certainly believes what you want) ,but if the things of belief is full those that i had mentioned then Oblivious and ignorant is the only of what you are.

worse still with myriad of evidence of forgery and fabracation from the early fathers and bishops ,even them had admitted to the 2000year old scandal of their own crimes.

When a person believes so strongly in a thing it can be very difficult to help them see it another way or even change their mind.

Have you ever hear of the discovery of a sequence of the human genome that determines the human behavior of believing of a supreme(godly) being ?


"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

 

[sojourner]

i don't have listen to you

Translation: "I'm gonna pick my toys and go home!"

they are garbage together with you hahahahaha

you ain't seen nothing yet Fatso schizo sojouner

Wow! Maybe someone will let you be a spin doctor for hate groups. You appear to have a talent for it.

 

[sojourner]

but you see other parts of the bible contradicts that claim there many other verses that implied that jesus is not god. LIKE James 1:13 , you need consistencies in the bible to correspond to the claims of your bible how can you claim anything if your contents can't even be consistence ??? even though they are verses that referring to your YHWH JESUS are gods. they just can't go hand in hand. however ,the revelation was written at least after 200 year if not more ,after the jesus death so….. there must a change in terms of doctrine not necessary that was what really happened in history.

if your beliefs framework arises from a contents that is full of inconsistencies and self contradictions do you call that true (of course ,you can most certainly believes what you want) ,but if the things of belief is full those that i had mentioned then Oblivious and ignorant is the only of what you are.

worse still with myriad of evidence of forgery and fabracation from the early fathers and bishops ,even them had admitted to the 2000year old scandal of their own crimes.

The doctrine of the Trinity is not without its problems. It's not airtight. We all understand that. But it does represent consensus among widely-diverse and argued POVs. No, the Bible does not state the doctrine explicitly. It doesn't need to in order for the doctrine to be valid. The Bible does imply that there was at least some propensity to think of Jesus as being Divine in some way.

The theology of the faith is not static. It changes as our understanding shifts. What was thought in ancient times is not necessarily how we understand things today. This isn't about stating some "absolute," like a mathematical constant. It's about encapsulating something that cannot be fully apprehended into a structure wherein it may be understood more fully (albeit not completely). I believe the doctrine does that quite well.

All that being said, since you're not Xian, why should it matter to you?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The doctrine of the Trinity is not without its problems. It's not airtight. We all understand that. But it does represent consensus among widely-diverse and argued POVs. No, the Bible does not state the doctrine explicitly. It doesn't need to in order for the doctrine to be valid. The Bible does imply that there was at least some propensity to think of Jesus as being Divine in some way.
The theology of the faith is not static. It changes as our understanding shifts. What was thought in ancient times is not necessarily how we understand things today. This isn't about stating some "absolute," like a mathematical constant. It's about encapsulating something that cannot be fully apprehended into a structure wherein it may be understood more fully (albeit not completely). I believe the doctrine does that quite well.
All that being said, since you're not Xian, why should it matter to you?

Since Jesus was sent by God from heaven that would make Jesus divine.
In order to be sent by God then Jesus would need to be already in existence.
According to Psalm 90v2 God always existed. God is un-created.
However, Jesus according to Rev 3v14 had a beginning or a start as the beginning of the creation by God. That would make Jesus a heavenly creation by his Father. -Col 1vs15,16.

Decades after Jesus was resurrected by God back to where he came from [heaven] at Rev 2v18 the heavenly resurrected Jesus still considers himself to still be the Son of God.

 

[sojourner]

Since Jesus was sent by God from heaven that would make Jesus divine.
In order to be sent by God then Jesus would need to be already in existence.
According to Psalm 90v2 God always existed. God is un-created.
However, Jesus according to Rev 3v14 had a beginning or a start as the beginning of the creation by God. That would make Jesus a heavenly creation by his Father. -Col 1vs15,16.

Decades after Jesus was resurrected by God back to where he came from [heaven] at Rev 2v18 the heavenly resurrected Jesus still considers himself to still be the Son of God.

Or: God begat God's Self as logos, gave up Divinity, and became human.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Or: God begat God's Self as logos, gave up Divinity, and became human.

Isn't God un-begotten according to Psalm 90v2?
God is also un-created being the Creator.

What is Logos but God's spokesman not God.
Logos is God's Word not God.
Logos is a title given to Jesus not God.
Logos, as a title, describes a function or duty performed.
As Word, or Mouthpiece, then Jesus conveyed information to us about God.
Didn't Jesus speak as God's spokesman not of his own impulse but as God commanded Jesus what to say and speak?
-John 12v49,50; 14v10; 7vs16,17.

Also the heavenly resurrected Jesus according to Rev. 19v13 still retains the title as the Word of God

 

[sojourner]

Isn't God un-begotten according to Psalm 90v2?
God is also un-created being the Creator.

What is Logos but God's spokesman not God.
Logos is God's Word not God.
Logos is a title given to Jesus not God.
Logos, as a title, describes a function or duty performed.
As Word, or Mouthpiece, then Jesus conveyed information to us about God.
Didn't Jesus speak as God's spokesman not of his own impulse but as God commanded Jesus what to say and speak?
-John 12v49,50; 14v10; 7vs16,17.

Also the heavenly resurrected Jesus according to Rev. 19v13 still retains the title as the Word of God

Of course God is "unbegotten." But, then, the Psalm writer knew nothing of Jesus, no?

According to John, logos is God, and logos became flesh and lived among us.

A spokesman for God is the job of the prophet.

 

[search the scriptures]

"beginning of the creation by God."

all things are created by God ; all things are not of God

rev 3:14 "the creation of God;'

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Jesus:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;
rev 3:14 is adressing beleivers/his church/children OF God/created OF God. jesus is the firstborn and head of the church of the creation/children OF God

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Rev 2:23 and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

 

[smokydot]

Hey
great yawn more and sleep just go fatten yourself
don't you want the holy spirit seem like your YHWN had the affinity for FATS so i think you should have more those anyway you are FAT already
the thinking that YOUR YHWH love FATS its just horrible and you better be trimmed before you reach Heaven i don't think YHWH likes to see you have too much of his FATS.

i don't have listen to you

same garbage references from your bible ,i thank you yes they are garbage together with you hahahahaha
you have just prove my point

my post are not for you is for the rest of the readers
they are revisions for the readers.just to derive a point later , you ain't seen nothing yet Fatso schizo sojouner wow that is so rthymic should put on rap man

A modification in your screen name would make it even more fitting. Drop the "light," make it "abysmaldarkness".

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/size][/quote]