FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
IMHO, the happy is the one who has no bad records during the journey of his/her life.
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Who is the winner of life?
- Thread starter InvestigateTruth
- Start date
IMHO, the happy is the one who has no bad records during the journey of his/her life.
Is life about winning?
I guess I’m doing it wrong.
This reminds me of a trip to a hospital to visit a very ill uncle, and the Doc said 'We lost him." It stuck me then as a preposterous statement, coming from a doctor. Surely he, of all people, would have known that people die.
I suppose one way of measuring would be by karma. If your accumulated karma is even a smidgen less, I suppose you've won, or at least scored a point, or successfully made one more step up Moksha Mountain.
Granted, karma is a good way to measure one's performance, but do you think the attachment to the desire to win leads one any closer to the peak of that mountain?
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Is life about winning?
I guess I’m doing it wrong.
Congratulations! You just won...
Probably not. Most folks I know do stuff, not for the karma, but because it's the right thing to do.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
"Winning' and 'losing' in life is completely subjective. If you're looking for an indicator of either in your life, you'll find it. I know people who have had everything in life and were completely unhappy. I also know folks that had nothing and couldn't be happier. I feel like I won at life the day I looked around and realized that I wouldn't trade my worse ten minutes for anyone else's best year.
Beautifully said. Nothing to add.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
IMHO, yes.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Thanks, Sigurd, for your appreciation.
From my perspective as a Christian, I see death from the biblical point of view.
In the scriptures, death is described as an “enemy” so it is ultimately the foe of all of us. No one gets out of this life alive. But the Bible reveals that it was never God’s purpose for man to die. Death is not programmed into our psyche. We do not welcome death unless our quality of life is zero. We dread death claiming our loved ones because the bonds forged among those closest to us were never meant to be broken.
The recommendation is given in the words of one of the richest and wisest kings in Israel.....Solomon wrote “give me neither poverty nor riches”....and he would know....there are downsides to both. Somewhere in the middle is good. Better to be materially poor and spiritually rich than the other way around.
Those who have a good quality of life find the greatest satisfaction in sharing what they have with others. Using abundant wealth in a selfish way never makes anyone happy. Materialism never leads to real satisfaction in life. “Things” never make you happy for very long....you are always chasing more. Solomon called it a "striving after the wind"....you will never catch it.
Poverty can be testing and yet a generous spirit, giving whatever is in the power of our own hands to help others, is still the recipe for happiness. You don't need the trappings of wealth to live a satisfying life.
The Bible recommends "contentment" which is not really observable in today's world....
"Contentment means wanting what you have...not having what you want"....
A wise person once wrote that 'the full import of a person's life is seen in the number of people who will miss them'....not for their fame, but for what they actually did to help others that meant so much to them.
I believe that God values us by how we value others.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Having the comforts of life doesn't necessarily make one feel happy or fulfilled. And being challenged by adversity doesn't necessarily make one a loser. Many times, it is finding meaning in the midst of adversity that brings happiness. IOW it is much more complicated than you are making it out to be.
In the end, I cannot tell who would "win" given only the information that you have given. The information you have provided is much too superficial.
chinu
chinu
Winner in life, and happier on deathbed, are two different questions. Happier on deathbed doesn't depends on how one lived his/her past life, vice versa it depends on what is going to happen next.
Imo, NO-one is happier on deathbed until certainly knows of what is going to happen with him/her next. Just a handful of people achieves (DBDE) "Death Before Death Experience" by way of meditations. Only such people are happier on deathbed because they are already aware of what is going to happen with them next, because they have already traveled into next life while in current life.
Now, winner in life depends whether or not one has enjoyed everything that he/she wants to enjoy/achieve in life ? if yes, then of course that person is a temporary winner in life. Temporary winner because I also believe that.. after this current life there's also a next life waiting for every person which will definitely convert that temporary-winning into loosing.
NO.
Because, while on a deathbed, Important is what is going to happen next ? rather, what one has already lived before.
Better, go and interview some old-age-patients in hospitals to know this truth.
Again, while on a deathbed, Important is what is going to happen next ? rather, what one has already lived before.
I think people would only seek death if their current life was horrible. I doubt anyone having lived a full life would be ready to die unless they had no option and could not prevent it.
I think, on their deathbed, it’s not so much what they got out of life, but rather, what they gave to others, ie., friendship, how they treated others.
How many people loved them?
That’s what gives us satisfaction. Strong relationships.
How many people loved them?
That’s what gives us satisfaction. Strong relationships.
Comparing rich and poor... rich is better. But who is the winner? The one who lived an honest and good life.
Psalm 37:16
A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
Proverbs 28:6
Better is the poor that walketh in his uprightness, than he that is perverse in his ways, though he be rich.
But it is better to be rich and still walk in uprightness.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
My honest thoughts on the matter are that a more accurate statement would be "We are here to survive." Whatever that looks like, we're only "here" (not that we were "put" here, mind you - I do not believe that in any way) to live and survive. We only seek comfort on top of that to make survival less arduous. But survival is basically what it is all about. That and procreation - which is just ongoing survival of the species.
We're no different than any of the other species on the planet in this regard. Animals attempt to survive right out of the gate, and (most - a few exceptions, like male praying mantis knowing they will die in order to procreate) don't stop until they are dead. Most of us humans do this also. The ones that don't (committing suicide, giving up, etc.) have lost sight of the ongoing "goal" in my opinion. Nothing "wrong" with that, necessarily. But one would be very hard-pressed trying to make the case that life is all about getting to death the fastest.
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halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
Jesus answers this very question, and the sub questions you ask too! --
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.
And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’
And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house— for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
Luke 16 ESV
-----------
Like most parables from Jesus, this is sharper and has more closeness to us than we expect. Also, some think this passage indicates a place of purification or purgatory, for those that believe but do not live as they should, where they would suffer until they realize how they have harmed others and have truly converted to a more full valuing of other people.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Absolutely... everyone's goal should be to find as much joy in this life as possible. The only limit should be if your 'joy' in some way infringes upon the rights of another. So if you get genuine joy out of marijuana, alcohol, driving fast, eating too much, or open sex with many people, go for it! Of course, you can get just as much genuine joy out of watching a sunset, listening to children's laughter, playing music, or helping others.
Regardless, life is far too short not to find the joy that you can whenever you can.
The question as to which one “wins” depends upon what purpose one is supposed to accomplish. If life were simply a race, then the one who finishes first is the winner. If life’s purpose is to accumulate wealth, then the wealthiest wins.
However, if the early Judeo-Christian concept of mortality as a Tutoring, a school of sorts where one is to learn moral and social wisdom is correct, then the one who best learns moral and social wisdom "wins". However, in such a context, it is not a contest, but rather a school to which all are sent as students to learn, rather than a set of contestants who are competing.
For examples :
MORTALITY IN THE CONTEXT OF A TUTORING EXPERIENCE, A SCHOOL
The Jewish Zohar describes the spirits of mankind into a context of being “sent off to school” to learn social “rules” which train us to be able to live, someday, in a social heaven in joy and harmony together. Speaking of these fully developed spirits the text says : “the spirit of the female and the spirit of the male, are hence preeminent above all the heavenly hosts and camps.” The question in the sacred text is then asked : “...It may be wondered, if they [the spirits of mankind] are thus preeminent on both sides, why do they descend to this world only to be taken thence at some future time? “This may be explained by way of a simile: A king has a son whom he sends to a village to be educated until he shall have been initiated into the ways of the palace. When the king is informed that his son is now come to maturity, the king, out of his love, sends the matron his mother to bring him back into the palace, and there the king rejoices with him every day.?....And so, happy are the righteous and in the world to come, ... (THE ZOHAR - A SEAL UPON YOUR HEART)
This ancient Judeo-Christian doctrine places mankind in the position of Students, who are to learn the moral principles God is trying to teach them. Similarly, the early Christian text, 2nd Clement says : “we are being trained by the present life” (2 clement 20:2). New testament era Ignatius is correct to say to the Ephesians, “I speak to you as my fellow students. For I need to be trained by you in faith, instruction, endurance, and patience. (Ig-eph 3:1 The Apostle Peter’s protégé Clement taught that “through him [Christ] the Master [the Father] has willed that we should taste immortal knowledge”.
New Testament Era Diogenes makes clear that without this “immortal knowledge”, there IS no basis for an eternal social life in heaven. Thus he taught the early Christians : "But the tree of knowledge does not kill, on the contrary, disobedience kills. For it is not without significance that the scriptures record that God in the beginning planted a tree of knowledge and a tree of life in the midst of Paradise, thereby revealing that (eternal) life is through knowledge...For there is neither life without knowledge, nor sound knowledge without true life; therefore each tree stands planted near the other. (Diog 12:2-3)
It is significant in the context of learning, that in early accounts, Eden’s tree of “knowledge”, is called the tree of “wisdom”. In Enoch’s vision of heaven he says : “... And the tree of wisdom, of which one eats and knows great wisdom, (was among them)....This very thing is the tree of wisdom from which your old father and aged mother, they who are your precursors, ate and came to know wisdom; and (consequently) their eyes were opened...” (1Enoch 32:6)
And, importantly, the type of wisdom that is gained, includes the type of moral knowledge man was sent here to learn (“there is no [eternal] life without knowledge”).
SPECIFIC TYPES OF KNOWLEDGE ARE REQUISITE TO SAVE US AND PREPARE US TO LIVE IN A PEACEFUL AND HARMONIOUS HEAVEN
Not all TYPES of knowledge have equal value in learning principles that will bring us joy and harmony in the eternities. The ORDER in which we learn principles is important as well.
For example: They ancient were taught to learn UNITY
“Focus on unity, for there is nothing better” (Polycarp 1:2). “...let there be one prayer, one petition, one mind, one hope, with love and blameless joy...let all of you run together as to one temple of God, as to one altar, to one Jesus Christ...” (Ignatius to the Magnesians 7:2)
For example, when congregations achieved unity, Ignatius honors them : “I congratulate you who are united with him, as the congregation is with Jesus Christ and as Jesus Christ is with the father, that all things might be harmonious in unity. (Ign to eph 5:1)
This was NOT taught simply to the Christians, but to the Jews as well. For example, in the Dead Sea Scrolls (1QS, 4Q, 5Q), the translators decided not to use the word “community” throughout the translation to describe this group, but rather they used one of the society’s most common self-designations: “YACHAD”, which, in such a context, means “unity”. It was after all, the moral ideal they sought to achieve and the word they used to describe themselves and their higher aspirations.
This is no different than the christian teaching “ Let there be nothing among you which is capable of dividing you, but be united ....with those who lead..” (Ign to Mag 6:2). The principle of UNITY and HARMONY were principles that ALL disciples were taught just as the angels had learned to do this : “ the archangels who are over the angels...harmonize all existence, heavenly and earthly...” (2nd Enoch 19:3). If spirits could NOT learn to overcome their undisciplined impulses, there could BE no harmony in heaven, or on earth). This was the pattern Jesus and the Apostles set. Just as Jesus was obedient to HIS Father, the church was to be obedient to their authorities. “Be subject to the Bishop and to one another, as Jesus Christ in the flesh was to the Father, and as the apostles were to Christ and to the Father, that there might be unity, both physical and spiritual". (Ign to Mag 13:2).
“Unity” and “oneness” is taught in all the sacred texts. When a man “leaves his parents” he is to become “one” (unified) with his wife (Gen 2:24) to the point that Jesus says that the “man and his wife are no longer “twain” but are “one” flesh (matt 19:6). Jesus requests of his Father regarding his disciples that he had “given them the glory that you [the Lord God] gave me, that they may be one as we are one, I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. “(NIV jn 17:23). The same unity of which Jesus has with his Father, the disciples were also to achieve (and all the rest of us as far as we are able to emulate Jesus and the disciples). For example: Jesus prays in Jn 17:20-21, “ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me ”.
Remove unity from heaven, and it cannot BE “unified” and “harmonious”. All who live there MUST live this principle.
Of course there are other principles to be learned, but, IN THE CONTEXT OF LIFE AS A TUTORING EXPERIENCE, then the one who is successful in this life is the one who is learning by their own experience, the difference between good and evil and how to live higher moral and social laws which are the kind of social rules that allow individuals to live together in a social heaven, in harmony and unity, after this life.
In any case, good luck coming to your own models as to what our purpose is in this life and how best to find satisfaction and happiness.
Clear
σεακτζω
However, if the early Judeo-Christian concept of mortality as a Tutoring, a school of sorts where one is to learn moral and social wisdom is correct, then the one who best learns moral and social wisdom "wins". However, in such a context, it is not a contest, but rather a school to which all are sent as students to learn, rather than a set of contestants who are competing.
For examples :
MORTALITY IN THE CONTEXT OF A TUTORING EXPERIENCE, A SCHOOL
The Jewish Zohar describes the spirits of mankind into a context of being “sent off to school” to learn social “rules” which train us to be able to live, someday, in a social heaven in joy and harmony together. Speaking of these fully developed spirits the text says : “the spirit of the female and the spirit of the male, are hence preeminent above all the heavenly hosts and camps.” The question in the sacred text is then asked : “...It may be wondered, if they [the spirits of mankind] are thus preeminent on both sides, why do they descend to this world only to be taken thence at some future time? “This may be explained by way of a simile: A king has a son whom he sends to a village to be educated until he shall have been initiated into the ways of the palace. When the king is informed that his son is now come to maturity, the king, out of his love, sends the matron his mother to bring him back into the palace, and there the king rejoices with him every day.?....And so, happy are the righteous and in the world to come, ... (THE ZOHAR - A SEAL UPON YOUR HEART)
This ancient Judeo-Christian doctrine places mankind in the position of Students, who are to learn the moral principles God is trying to teach them. Similarly, the early Christian text, 2nd Clement says : “we are being trained by the present life” (2 clement 20:2). New testament era Ignatius is correct to say to the Ephesians, “I speak to you as my fellow students. For I need to be trained by you in faith, instruction, endurance, and patience. (Ig-eph 3:1 The Apostle Peter’s protégé Clement taught that “through him [Christ] the Master [the Father] has willed that we should taste immortal knowledge”.
New Testament Era Diogenes makes clear that without this “immortal knowledge”, there IS no basis for an eternal social life in heaven. Thus he taught the early Christians : "But the tree of knowledge does not kill, on the contrary, disobedience kills. For it is not without significance that the scriptures record that God in the beginning planted a tree of knowledge and a tree of life in the midst of Paradise, thereby revealing that (eternal) life is through knowledge...For there is neither life without knowledge, nor sound knowledge without true life; therefore each tree stands planted near the other. (Diog 12:2-3)
It is significant in the context of learning, that in early accounts, Eden’s tree of “knowledge”, is called the tree of “wisdom”. In Enoch’s vision of heaven he says : “... And the tree of wisdom, of which one eats and knows great wisdom, (was among them)....This very thing is the tree of wisdom from which your old father and aged mother, they who are your precursors, ate and came to know wisdom; and (consequently) their eyes were opened...” (1Enoch 32:6)
And, importantly, the type of wisdom that is gained, includes the type of moral knowledge man was sent here to learn (“there is no [eternal] life without knowledge”).
SPECIFIC TYPES OF KNOWLEDGE ARE REQUISITE TO SAVE US AND PREPARE US TO LIVE IN A PEACEFUL AND HARMONIOUS HEAVEN
Not all TYPES of knowledge have equal value in learning principles that will bring us joy and harmony in the eternities. The ORDER in which we learn principles is important as well.
For example: They ancient were taught to learn UNITY
“Focus on unity, for there is nothing better” (Polycarp 1:2). “...let there be one prayer, one petition, one mind, one hope, with love and blameless joy...let all of you run together as to one temple of God, as to one altar, to one Jesus Christ...” (Ignatius to the Magnesians 7:2)
For example, when congregations achieved unity, Ignatius honors them : “I congratulate you who are united with him, as the congregation is with Jesus Christ and as Jesus Christ is with the father, that all things might be harmonious in unity. (Ign to eph 5:1)
This was NOT taught simply to the Christians, but to the Jews as well. For example, in the Dead Sea Scrolls (1QS, 4Q, 5Q), the translators decided not to use the word “community” throughout the translation to describe this group, but rather they used one of the society’s most common self-designations: “YACHAD”, which, in such a context, means “unity”. It was after all, the moral ideal they sought to achieve and the word they used to describe themselves and their higher aspirations.
This is no different than the christian teaching “ Let there be nothing among you which is capable of dividing you, but be united ....with those who lead..” (Ign to Mag 6:2). The principle of UNITY and HARMONY were principles that ALL disciples were taught just as the angels had learned to do this : “ the archangels who are over the angels...harmonize all existence, heavenly and earthly...” (2nd Enoch 19:3). If spirits could NOT learn to overcome their undisciplined impulses, there could BE no harmony in heaven, or on earth). This was the pattern Jesus and the Apostles set. Just as Jesus was obedient to HIS Father, the church was to be obedient to their authorities. “Be subject to the Bishop and to one another, as Jesus Christ in the flesh was to the Father, and as the apostles were to Christ and to the Father, that there might be unity, both physical and spiritual". (Ign to Mag 13:2).
“Unity” and “oneness” is taught in all the sacred texts. When a man “leaves his parents” he is to become “one” (unified) with his wife (Gen 2:24) to the point that Jesus says that the “man and his wife are no longer “twain” but are “one” flesh (matt 19:6). Jesus requests of his Father regarding his disciples that he had “given them the glory that you [the Lord God] gave me, that they may be one as we are one, I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. “(NIV jn 17:23). The same unity of which Jesus has with his Father, the disciples were also to achieve (and all the rest of us as far as we are able to emulate Jesus and the disciples). For example: Jesus prays in Jn 17:20-21, “ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me ”.
Remove unity from heaven, and it cannot BE “unified” and “harmonious”. All who live there MUST live this principle.
Of course there are other principles to be learned, but, IN THE CONTEXT OF LIFE AS A TUTORING EXPERIENCE, then the one who is successful in this life is the one who is learning by their own experience, the difference between good and evil and how to live higher moral and social laws which are the kind of social rules that allow individuals to live together in a social heaven, in harmony and unity, after this life.
In any case, good luck coming to your own models as to what our purpose is in this life and how best to find satisfaction and happiness.
Clear
σεακτζω
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